Investing in Sharpening Stuff

[Harvey Pascoe]

For those who are just getting started and have reservations about investing fairly large amounts of money in sharpening stuff, I will relate my experience that may change your mind about where to spend your money.

Heretofore I was not a big fan of hand planes. For one thing, I only had several poor quality planes, the performance of which was not greatly improved no matter how sharp the blades were. Secondly, after I started honing my jointer and planer blades to 4000, it seemed my need for planes was greatly reduced as I can run the most difficult woods through them with zero tear out. The first inkling that I might be wrong was after I bought a LV jack plane which was so superior to my old Stanleys that I could hardly believe it.

Then began my journey into sharpening though I was still skeptical of what I considered the "obsessions" with scary sharp I read on this forum. I did not invest in a half dozen $100 stones nor $500 electric machines, rather I went for thick rectangles of glass obtained by dumpster diving and then cut to size. I went for wet sandpaper up to 1000 followed by micro finishing paper to 0.5 micron equivalent to 9000 grit, along with the Veritas honing guide and grinding jig. This achieves a degree of sharpness that will rival the most expensive set up, at a much more modest cost.

This, of course has led me to upgrade all my planes, having gone from six down to only four since that is all I really need. They were all downsized, too, as I no longer needed my large 17" jack when the 10" smoothing plane will do just as well. Smaller and much easier for me to push.

So all you obsessive sharpeners out there, you have made a convert for I, too, am obsessed with scary sharp and for a very good reason: the quality of my work in only a few months has improved dramatically, has become more detailed and intricate. Not only that, but the time I spend sharpening saves me even more time on the amount of time spent on finishing, the hours spent with sandpaper and scrapers trying to remove tear out or plane gouges.

Today I can create shop sawn veneered panels that are as smooth as a piano top; yesterday I could not because I could not plane multi-directional grained woods in mosaic patterns to make the panel flat. I had to resort to long board sanding which is tedious, tiring and time consuming.

That is my story on sharpening and good hand planes and this is all something that I should have done many years ago, but due to sheer stubbornness, did not. That was a big mistake. If you're serious about wood working, you'll do well to make this investment early on and save yourself all the trouble I went through.

[Mark Baldwin III]

I'm still learning a lot about sharpening. I have a very simple set up but it works well. I used the scary sharp method for a little while, and went back to using my waterstone more and more. Lately, I've only used the paper and glass (or granite) for initial prep of a new iron. I think I'd rather waste a bit of paper flattening a back instead of doing that on my stones. For me, the most important addition to my technique was stropping. If you don't have a strop, you should see about adding it as your final step. I got a package of leather pieces from LV and their green compound. I just glued the leather to a flattened block, and I've been a happy sharpener ever since.
BTW, do you use any waterstones? They don't have to be expensive.

[Archie England]

Yeah! The key to better cuts and jointing IS SHARPNESS! Quality tools, of course, help.


BTW, better sharpness truly results from better sharpening mediums. You may never choose to buy ceramic waterstones like I have done--but I have certainly been where you are! If I had only bought right, first; then I'd never have wasted so much in getting to wHere I want to be!

[Terry Beadle]

It's a conundrum that you have to have good metal working skills to be a improved wood worker. It's true though. I think David Charlesworth's greatest contribution to the world of wood working is his videos on how to sharpen a curved plane blade and his precision chisel prep techniques. It makes joints and straightness achievable even for an all thumbs guy like me.

What a freedom and confidence builder a good sharp chisel makes. Dove tail shoulders dead on the mark. Yep, spending the time and in some cases the money in sharpening tools is one of the greatest pleasures in wood working. Worth the money. What's even more neat, is it can be cheap or expensive, exotic or simple, but what ever the sharpening technique and gear, the results are our pleasures to bear.

[Matthew Hills]

.... This achieves a degree of sharpness that will rival the most expensive set up, at a much more modest cost.
...
This, of course has led me to upgrade all my planes,

Ahh, the hidden cost of discovering "sharpness"

Matt

[Chris Griggs]

Personally, I hate sandpaper on glass, but if it's getting you a consistently wicked sharp edge, then stick with it.

The best sharpening system is whatever system consistently works for you. I've owned/used scary sharp, nortons, arkansas, and now have some newer ceramics. My preference in order from favorite to least favorite. 1) Sigma ceramic waterstones 2) Arkansas/oil stone 3) Norton water stones 4) Scary Sharp/Sandpaper

They all work, but for me, some just work (a lot) better than others

Edit: Just remembered I had a fine/600 grit DMT diasharp, it was a nice alternative to the norton 1k, in terms of convenience, but in the end I got rid of it.

[Harvey Pascoe]

I have a couple of Japanese stones, very friable and they damage too easily but they do a fine job.

I can see why anyone would not like paper, starting with the fact that is is messy and takes up space. My system uses a 3 foot long by 11" panel of 1/2" glass to which six grades of paper are glued, three each side. Micro paper is a PITA because you don't set the angle just right, you cut through it. But if one doesn't have $1000 to drop on high end stones, its not a huge drawback.

No question, I would like to get away from paper . . . maybe if I have good Xmas sales this year . . . .

While in college, I worked part time in a machine shop so, yes indeed, metal working skills are extremely useful in a wood shop. I make a lot of my own permanent jigs of aluminum. About 12 years ago I obtained a 600 gallon aluminum fuel tank that was removed from a yacht due to leaks. I have since used every single square inch of that tank making jigs and what not.

[john brenton]

Many of use our stones for other things as well such as kitchen knives, striaght razors, draw knives, adzes and hatchets (or at least I do), and some of these objects would be very cumbersome if not impossible to sharpen on a wide piece of stationary glass.

[Glen Butler]

I been doing a lot of reading about sharpening systems. The more I learn the more I don't know which route to go. I either want to go the waterstone route or DMT route. I don't many, if any, on SMC who talk about diamond plates, why? Seems to me diamond is the way to go, they are around the same cost but don't need to be flattened regularly.

[Dale Cruea]

This is my first post since joining. Sharpening...sigh... I think I have tried about everything. Oil stones, water stones, sand paper and DMT diamond stones. I settled on Diamond stones because I could not figure out how to keep my water stones flat. At the time I did not know you could flatten them on a granite plate and sand paper. I just purchased 4 Shapton glass stones. The appear to be working OK. The problem with diamond stones is that as you use them they start to get dull. The stone is still good but you need to rub more to get anything done.
I also have a question that you may be able to help with.
I have recently started using hand planes a lot. I have several, old and new. All have A-2 blades. I use an angle guide to hold my blades.
I have noticed in the last week or so all of my plane iron cutting edges have a concave in them. Not bowed out or down but bowed up.
I have tried everything I can think of to get rid of the bow but nothing works. It is only about .0015" or so but shows up when I take a very fine cut. I get 2 shavings, one on each side of the blade.
I can understand if it were convex but, concave.
I went back and tried my sand paper on granite and my diamond stones.
I lapped my new stones flat and tried them. Nothing appears to work.

[Chris Griggs]

I been doing a lot of reading about sharpening systems. The more I learn the more I don't know which route to go. I either want to go the waterstone route or DMT route. I don't many, if any, on SMC who talk about diamond plates, why? Seems to me diamond is the way to go, they are around the same cost but don't need to be flattened regularly.

A lot of folks like diamond plates for the lower grit levels, but there are a number of issues that keep a lot of folks away from them. First, they do wear out - if your not careful to apply light pressure they can where out surprisingly quickly. Second, at the higher grits they supposedly don't get as fine an edge as waterstones, I however can't attest to this because I've never owned a high grit diamond stone. Finally, one the major issue that I had with mine (600 grit diasharp) was that I found it quite difficult to free hand on. I liked it alright when using a honing guide, but when freehand honing I found that it had an almost sticky feel, it suffered from aquaplaning, and because of uneven wear (center more worn/less aggressive then the rest), the feel would change from smooth to rough as I moved a cross the stone, making it hard to maintain even pressure and a consistent angle. Like a lot of folks I love course diamond stones for flattening water stones but beyond that I've lost all interest in them.


This is my first post since joining. Sharpening...sigh... I think I have tried about everything. Oil stones, water stones, sand paper and DMT diamond stones. I settled on Diamond stones because I could not figure out how to keep my water stones flat. At the time I did not know you could flatten them on a granite plate and sand paper. I just purchased 4 Shapton glass stones. The appear to be working OK. The problem with diamond stones is that as you use them they start to get dull. The stone is still good but you need to rub more to get anything done.
I also have a question that you may be able to help with.
I have recently started using hand planes a lot. I have several, old and new. All have A-2 blades. I use an angle guide to hold my blades.
I have noticed in the last week or so all of my plane iron cutting edges have a concave in them. Not bowed out or down but bowed up.
I have tried everything I can think of to get rid of the bow but nothing works. It is only about .0015" or so but shows up when I take a very fine cut. I get 2 shavings, one on each side of the blade.
I can understand if it were convex but, concave.
I went back and tried my sand paper on granite and my diamond stones.
I lapped my new stones flat and tried them. Nothing appears to work.

Are you sure you didn't accidentally grind them with concavity? Where are you applying pressure when you hone? Try honing in a way that adds convexity (camber) to the blade, by applying pressure on one corner for a few strokes, then switch to the other corner for a few strokes. Also, what did you use to lap your stones - are you sure it was flat? I guess I'm probably asking/stating the obvious, but that all I can think of....

[Glen Butler]

Dale, is the back of the blade flat and polished to a mirror? Both joining planes that form the razor edge must be perfectly flat and polished to get a good edge.

[David Weaver]

For freehanding on a medium or coarse diamond hone, always side sharpen. It will do two things for you:
* make it a lot easier to use the stone, in general, so you get a fast and continuous cut
* it will preserve the bevel angle and keep you from rolling deep scratches in the bevel if you get skipping or jumping.

When you're side sharpening, if you're getting one side of the iron or the other that is not getting sharpened like you'd like, just put your finger pressure where you want the sharpening or metal removal to occur.

When you go to a fine stone then and roll the edge a little bit because you're freehanding the way you normally would, you have an iron that might have a tiny bit of camber (which you probably want, none will be noticeable on a chisel), but you will be cutting into unscratched metal at the edge, and you should get a fine edge with no grooves very quickly.

[Terry Beadle]

I had the same experience of a slight concavity in the sharpening edge of my plane blades. To solve this I made sure I kept my stones flatter by using a DMT extracoarse and some wet/dry 320 on a granite plate. The DMT would have been enough but like most obsessed sharpeners, I just had to have the granite ( hoot!! ).

Any way, you need to get a dead flat wood/plastic surface to hold to the cutting edge and held against a good back lite make sure the corners are slightly recessed and there's not dip in the center of the cutting edge. If there is one, you haven't worked the corners enough. Don't have dips, work on the lips ! Hoot!

The dip is probably caused by wear. Most curved plane blades are cutting at the center of the blade and not so much at the edges or lips. There fore when you sharpen, even if your stones are dead flat, you have probably felt the burr and moved on with out checking for the curvature. Checking the curvature is a must IMO. It doesn't take long on a 800 or 1000 grit King stone to put a proper curvature to the cutting edge.

[Dale Cruea]

I flatten my stones on a granite setup plate with sand paper. I have since purchased a Dia-Flat lapping plate.
I will re-check the backs of my irons. When checked before they appeared to be flat.
I also rock my guide from side to side to try to get the edges of my irons honed back a little.
Thanks for some places to start looking. :)

[David Weaver]

Your stones must be crowned one way or another. It's very unusual to have the iron proud at the corners, and only a crowned stone would do it unless you're draping one side of the bevel or back over the edge of the stones the entire time you're sharpening.

You have a nice kit of gear (oilstones and glasstones), when you get this straightened out, it will serve you well.

You may be lamenting that you could get a granite plate instead of a diamond hone, but most people prefer the diamond hone - even one that is worn. Just use it often enough on your stones such that they don't get too far out of flat.

The proud corners on an iron is a puzzling thing, though, and I think when all is said and done, you'll find something concave or loose somewhere such that the center of the stone is allowed to be higher than the sides.

[Harvey Pascoe]

I have a diamond plate, diamond fused to plated steel that is 20 years old, a little dull but still cuts fast enough. Its a low grit used for fast cutting. Looking at those DMT things, its easy to see why they wear out fast: less than half the surface is diamond, the rest is plastic. A diamond plate costs about double but will last 5X longer.

[Bill Moser]

I haven't tried the "scary sharp" method yet. According to Chris Schwarz, that method actually costs more in the long run, since you have to replenish your sandpaper supply quite often. I get by with a 400/1200 diamond stone, and a 4000 grit shapton, and I use the diamond stone to flatten the shapton. This is, for me, a quick, low-mess solution.

[Dale Cruea]

I found the problem.... When I purchased my new stones I also purchased a Dia-Flat. When I was flattening my stones I was pushing and pulling from the long side. I did not feel the stone rock just a small amount. This caused the stone(s) to be crowned down the middle. I now flatten the stones by pushing along the narrow side. No crown. Thanks to all that offered suggestions. It gave me a place to start.

[Bill Nenna]

This is my first post since joining. Sharpening...sigh... I think I have tried about everything. Oil stones, water stones, sand paper and DMT diamond stones. I settled on Diamond stones because I could not figure out how to keep my water stones flat. At the time I did not know you could flatten them on a granite plate and sand paper. I just purchased 4 Shapton glass stones. The appear to be working OK. The problem with diamond stones is that as you use them they start to get dull. The stone is still good but you need to rub more to get anything done.
I also have a question that you may be able to help with.
I have recently started using hand planes a lot. I have several, old and new. All have A-2 blades. I use an angle guide to hold my blades.
I have noticed in the last week or so all of my plane iron cutting edges have a concave in them. Not bowed out or down but bowed up.
I have tried everything I can think of to get rid of the bow but nothing works. It is only about .0015" or so but shows up when I take a very fine cut. I get 2 shavings, one on each side of the blade.
I can understand if it were convex but, concave.
I went back and tried my sand paper on granite and my diamond stones.
I lapped my new stones flat and tried them. Nothing appears to work.

If the back of the blade is flattened then then your problem has to be your technique. If you are exerting pressure on your guide, then your doing it wrong. There should be no pressure put on the wheel of the honing guide. The only pressure should be on the tip of the blade about a third of the way in from each edge evenly. Putting a slight curve on the blade, if you choose, should be a deliberate process of adding a set number of strokes with pressure near the edge of the blade then half as many strokes with pressure put half way between the side and the center of the blade, skip the middle and continue the same process on the other side.

Since you problem is the same using stones or glass I have to believe it has to be incorrectly applied pressure.