Need help with carved sign

[Bart Sharp]

Okay, here is the situation. I am working on my first incised letter carving project, a plaque for my wife for our 5th anniversary. Time is short (isn't it always?), and I'm hoping I could get your advice on a few (many) questions. To wit:

I am practicing on basswood, but it would be nice to do something a little more upscale for the real thing. Considering that my sharpening technique, hand strength, and general skill level are somewhere south of "pitiful", could anyone suggest a slightly nicer wood that I could still carve?

My original thought was to gold leaf in the letters, but I've decided that would be one too many "firsts" for this project. So, should I paint in the letters or go for a more subtle effect with just the carving? If painted, what color if the plaque is basswood? What color if the alternate wood? If I don't paint, how about going over the finish with a dark wax that would highlight the carving a little?

For either basswood or the alternate, what clear finish would you recommend? I like shellac, but I am open to suggestions. How would basswood respond to a little stain? I'm generally against staining just on principle, but could that dress it up a little?

I know some sample pieces would go a long way to answering these questions, but there are two problems. One, I only have about three weeks to do this. And two, my "shop" consists entirely of my lap, so I don't really have the space to buy and store a bunch of finishing products to try.

I lurk here much more than I post because I have much more to learn than contribute. I certainly appreciate any advice anybody might have.

Thanks!
Bart

[Scott Banbury]

Gold leafing is fairly straightforward and looks so nice--give it a try.


If you ahve trouble PM me.

[Wolf Kiessling]

Okay, here is the situation. I am working on my first incised letter carving project, a plaque for my wife for our 5th anniversary. Time is short (isn't it always?), and I'm hoping I could get your advice on a few (many) questions. To wit:

I am practicing on basswood, but it would be nice to do something a little more upscale for the real thing. Considering that my sharpening technique, hand strength, and general skill level are somewhere south of "pitiful", could anyone suggest a slightly nicer wood that I could still carve?
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I would suggest sticking with the basswood

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My original thought was to gold leaf in the letters, but I've decided that would be one too many "firsts" for this project. So, should I paint in the letters or go for a more subtle effect with just the carving? If painted, what color if the plaque is basswood? What color if the alternate wood? If I don't paint, how about going over the finish with a dark wax that would highlight the carving a little?
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Instead of painting "in" the carved letters, I suggest considering the following: paint the wood then carve through it with the result of the letters being the natural wood color. Use any color you like. I am attaching a pic at the end here of a plate my late wife carved to show the effect of this technique.

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For either basswood or the alternate, what clear finish would you recommend? I like shellac, but I am open to suggestions. How would basswood respond to a little stain? I'm generally against staining just on principle, but could that dress it up a little?
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A clear finish I like, particularly on basswood, would be a satin water based polyurethane or natural color danish oil, such as Deft or Watco. I, personally, would not use stain as it might splotch. You might like it, however.

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I know some sample pieces would go a long way to answering these questions, but there are two problems. One, I only have about three weeks to do this. And two, my "shop" consists entirely of my lap, so I don't really have the space to buy and store a bunch of finishing products to try.

I lurk here much more than I post because I have much more to learn than contribute. I certainly appreciate any advice anybody might have.

Thanks!
Bart
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I hope you have a good drop point knife to accomplish this chip carving project.

Wolf

[Bart Sharp]

Wolf,

Thanks for the advice and the picture, that is a beautiful plate. Your wife was obviously very talented.

One of the last things I bought while I still had a job (before I came back to school) was a Wayne Barton chip knife and a fine ceramic stone to dress it up with. To be honest, I'm a little hesitant to try sharpening the knife. It's sharp "enough" to cut, and with my lack of skill I'm afraid I would make things worse instead of better. Like the doctors say, "First, do no harm."

If I go with carving through the paint, should I clearcoat overtop of the paint and exposed wood? Would you still use the satin poly in that case?

Thanks again!
Bart

[Carl Eyman]

Bart:

My first carving project was a shell. I, too, bought basswood to practice on. When I got to the mahogany for the real thing. I found it easier going than the basswood. For mahogany, personally I like a filled finish. One in which the pores are filled before the final finish is applied. I've never tried it, but I'd be inclined toi finish the flat smooth surface before I did my carving; so none of the "goop" would find its way into the carving. I'd be interested to hear other opinions on this subject,

[Keith Christopher]

Wolf,

...with. To be honest, I'm a little hesitant to try sharpening the knife. It's sharp "enough" to cut, and with my lack of skill I'm afraid I would make things worse instead of better. Like the doctors say, "First, do no harm."

If I go with carving through the paint, should I clearcoat overtop of the paint and exposed wood? Would you still use the satin poly in that case?

Thanks again!
Bart
Bart,

You have to try sometime. You've got the idea, run with it. you won't be able to carve that basswood well with a dull knife. And all the practice on the basswood will dull the knife. There are plenty of articles on sharpening. problem is when you read them they say "Hold at a Xdegree angle," and most people are like how the heck to I do that ? Well ya just need to be close, they tell you that so you know how to roughly angle the blade. to be dead on would be nice but without a jig few of us rarely are. I say GO FOR IT ! jump in the pool and swim ! Check your local library for any wood carving books.


Keith

[Bart Sharp]

Bart,

You have to try sometime. You've got the idea, run with it. you won't be able to carve that basswood well with a dull knife. And all the practice on the basswood will dull the knife. There are plenty of articles on sharpening. problem is when you read them they say "Hold at a Xdegree angle," and most people are like how the heck to I do that ? Well ya just need to be close, they tell you that so you know how to roughly angle the blade. to be dead on would be nice but without a jig few of us rarely are. I say GO FOR IT ! jump in the pool and swim ! Check your local library for any wood carving books.


Keith

Keith, you hit the nail on the head with the whole angle thing. It's not so much getting the exact right angle that bothers me, because I know that's a trade-off anyway between sharpness and durability. My biggest problem is that it never feels like I am keeping a consistent angle as I'm running the knife over the stone. As a result it always feels like I'm nicely rounding over the cutting edge. I know I'll have to just do it, but I'm not very confident in the results.

Carl, do you have any specific pore-filling products or techniques that you would recommend?

Thanks!

[Wolf Kiessling]

[QUOTE=Bart Sharp]Wolf,

Thanks for the advice and the picture, that is a beautiful plate. Your wife was obviously very talented.

One of the last things I bought while I still had a job (before I came back to school) was a Wayne Barton chip knife and a fine ceramic stone to dress it up with. To be honest, I'm a little hesitant to try sharpening the knife. It's sharp "enough" to cut, and with my lack of skill I'm afraid I would make things worse instead of better. Like the doctors say, "First, do no harm."

If I go with carving through the paint, should I clearcoat overtop of the paint and exposed wood? Would you still use the satin poly in that case?

Thanks again!


Bart, you will know if you need to sharpen your knife if the chips don't come out of the wood crisply. If the knife is not sharp, you will spend a lot of time sanding and end up with a lot of "rounded over" edges when the edges should be nice and sharp. If you're in a hurry to get this job done, and your knife isn't sharp, see if you can find someone to do it for you for a fee. One thing you should keep in mind is that your ceramic stone will do a good job honing instead of sharpening. I believe the Barton knives come sharpened and if you haven't used it a lot, you should still have a good edge on it. If you hone it regligiously while using it, you may not have to sharpen it for many months. Frequent honing will prevent you from losing the edge on the blade. A good leather strop will also do nicely.

IMHO, mahogany does carve well but for chip carving doesn't come out as well as basswood because of the grain structure. I think the type of mahogany also makes a big difference. A mahogany project, under certain circumstances, can turn out to be the "project from hell". To be sure, this is just a matter of opinion. For myself, and I do very little in the way of chip carving, I think you can't beat the basswood. I will qualify that by stating that I am referring to northern basswood; if you're using southern basswood, all bets are off.

Regarding top coating the object if you carve thru paint. If you cover the wood with acrylic paint, like Joyce used to do, it will be totally flat and you will definitely want to top coat it. Satin poly for sure in this case. Besides that, it also protects the raw wood that was exposed by the carving.

Good luck with your project,

Wolf

I will send you one more pic. I found it after I sent the pic of the wedding plate. This is the one I wanted to send originally anyhow.

[Bart Sharp]

Thanks Wolf, that's another great looking plate. If you'll allow a complete rookie question, could you describe the method you would use to hone the knife on the ceramic stone? Hold it at a shallow angle and slide it up down the stone, or is there more to it?

The knife is cutting pretty well (but what would I know, I've probably never had a truly sharp knife), and I've only cut a few letters so far. Maybe with luck I can get through this project anyway.

[Wolf Kiessling]

Thanks Wolf, that's another great looking plate. If you'll allow a complete rookie question, could you describe the method you would use to hone the knife on the ceramic stone? Hold it at a shallow angle and slide it up down the stone, or is there more to it?

The knife is cutting pretty well (but what would I know, I've probably never had a truly sharp knife), and I've only cut a few letters so far. Maybe with luck I can get through this project anyway.

I actually don't like to use stones, Bart, I use a John Burke sharpening machine. However, were I forced to use a stone, I would hold it at a shallow angle and push it up the stone. Remember, when you are honing, you are not removing metal from the edge, you are simply "straightening" out the microscopic curls and dents that you are putting onto the edge when using the knife. It is the same principle as when your wife, or a chef, are honing their kitchen knives with a sharpening steel. This is why honing frequently will greatly prolong the life of your knife; you do not have to sharpen nearly as often and therefore you are not removing as much temper from the cutting edge.

[Steven Wilson]

My biggest problem is that it never feels like I am keeping a consistent angle as I'm running the knife over the stone. As a result it always feels like I'm nicely rounding over the cutting edge.

I've taken a couple of carving classes and for sharpening my instructor, who uses oil stones, firmly fixed his arms and let his legs move him. It was amazing but he was able to keep the exact same angle through the stroke. I practiced by setting up a video camera and a TV in the shop and watching myself as I would go through the sharpening motion trying to educate my muscles to the motion. It's worked very well. I place the blade on the oil stone. Slosh around until I feel the edge rest completely on the stone (a bit of oil pops out). Lock my arms, and let my legs drive the motion. I can freehand small chisels and carving tools quickly and accurately; no dubbing the edge and no need for the pulling out the Tormek and jigs. Although I use shapton stones for my regular edge tools I use oil stones followed by a strop for carving tools. Now, if I could only carve worth a darn :p

[Bart Sharp]

...were I forced to use a stone, I would hold it at a shallow angle and push it up the stone. Remember, when you are honing, you are not removing metal from the edge, you are simply "straightening" out the microscopic curls and dents that you are putting onto the edge when using the knife...

So do you push the knife up the stone edge first (like taking a slice off the stone), or the other way? I'm assuming light to moderate pressure since you aren't trying to remove any material?

This is a huge help, thanks everybody.

[Wolf Kiessling]

So do you push the knife up the stone edge first (like taking a slice off the stone), or the other way? I'm assuming light to moderate pressure since you aren't trying to remove any material?

This is a huge help, thanks everybody.


Edge first, like slicing the stone....

[Carl Eyman]

Whatever I've advised you to do, forget it. You are in expert hands. Wolf is the best carver I've ever seen in person or electronically. I know on the kind of carving I was doing, mahogany worked as well or better than the basseood. But that was not chip carving. So take the master's advice and consider yourself very lucky. The rest of us will monitor from the sidelines and be thankful for the opportunity.

[Jim Dunn]

Here Here Carl!!

[Bart Sharp]

Whatever I've advised you to do, forget it. You are in expert hands. Wolf is the best carver I've ever seen in person or electronically. I know on the kind of carving I was doing, mahogany worked as well or better than the basseood. But that was not chip carving. So take the master's advice and consider yourself very lucky. The rest of us will monitor from the sidelines and be thankful for the opportunity.

From all the pictures I've seen Wolf post, I have no doubt that his advice is as good as gold. I think I've finally decided on a layout and font, and I am going to stick with basswood for this one. A few more practice letters and I think I'll just jump in and start on the real thing.

Since it will be my first try, maybe she'll appreciate it even if it is as ugly as homemade soap. I'll try to snap some pictures as soon as there is any visible progress.

[Bart Sharp]

Edge first, like slicing the stone....

Wolf,
As I look at my practice letters, I'm starting to think that leaving the board natural and painting in the letters may be a better way to go after all for my first go-around. The reason I say that is my cuts don't usually meet perfectly at the bottom, and I tend to end up with either undercuts or other imperfections. I'm thinking that in-painting with a darker color may help disguise some of that "character". What do you think?

Thanks,
Bart