Change the hook angle on a LN carcass saw?

[lowell holmes]

I am thinking of doing it on my rip carcass saw. Have any of you done it.

If so, how did it turn out?

[Brian Kent]

What is the problem you are trying to fix?

[Tony Shea]

Is the hook angle too aggressive for your taste? This is sometimes an issue with LN's rip saws as I believe they all have zero deg rake. I personally love the zero deg rake LN uses for their rip saws and find the dovetail saw the only place where i could get along with a bit more rake. But even on the dovetail saw I still am in the camp of no rake at all. The only really advantage to more rake is that it may create an easier starting saw, which IMO is overcome with practise. I never (anymore that is) have issues starting any of my rip saws with zero rake. The aggressive rake angle is welcome once you're in the cut wasting away material as the speed is incredible. Just takes practise getting used to letting the saw do the cutting and taking the weight off the tip of the saw when starting the cut. I love my LN rip saws and would be devastated if some took and changed the teeth geometry. But to each his own.

[lowell holmes]

The saw is not aggressive enough. I'm using it as a tenon saw. I have a 100 year old Disstton that I put 10 degrees of hook angle on and I like the feel of the saw. IMO, it is a better tenon saw than the LN. I'm not interested in zero hook angle.

I have three LN saws and I feel the same way about them that you expressed. I think the carcass saw has 30 degree hook angle. It's hard to tell. The teeth look like equilateral triangles.

After I finish the new saw vise, I may have a go at it, but probably not.

I am curious though if anyone else has had a similar experience with the saw.

I'll probably just tinker with the old saws

.207915

[Jim Koepke]

I think the carcass saw has 30 degree hook angle.

I would think of hook as negative rake, the teeth slanting forward instead of back.

With 30 degrees rake, it seems the saw would be a bit slow at cutting.

Are you sure this saw is already filed for rip?

Your comment:

The teeth look like equilateral triangles.

Sounds more like cross cut teeth.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

Well, could be, sort of.

It has no fleam, but the hook angle does look more like crosscut.

I have the crosscut saw as well. I like the way it cuts.

[Chris Griggs]

I have a LN 15ppi rip carcass - the rake is quite relaxed for a rip. Looks to be about 15 degrees. I've too thought about putting a more aggressive rake on it. LN puts a fairly relaxed rake in their saws - if your comfortable with filing, I say go for it.

[Derek Cohen]

The saw is not aggressive enough. I'm using it as a tenon saw.

Hi Lowell

I think that your problem lies with the number of teeth, not their rake. A LN carcass saw has 14 ppi. A decent tenon saw needs 10-11 ppi.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chris Fournier]

The saw is not aggressive enough. I'm using it as a tenon saw.

Hi Lowell

I think that your problem lies with the number of teeth, not their rake. A LN carcass saw has 14 ppi. A decent tenon saw needs 10-11 ppi.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Yup I would agree!

[lowell holmes]

Thanks,

Thats why I posted the question. I have a 10 tpi handsaw that is sharpened rip (ala Tage Frid). I will try using it.

Also, I have two old Disston back saws. I could re-tooth one of those, but I'm not sure I'm up to the task.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Lowell

It does sound like you have the crosscut carcass saw. Do not mess with it. It is designed for tenon shoulders, not tenon cheeks. The Disston 10 tpi would make the better saw for cheeks. No doubt you need to touch up the cheeks. What is its length? Hopefully around 12-14".

Regards from Perth

Derek

[lowell holmes]

Derek,

I have both carcass saws. I will leave them alone except to sharpen them when needed.

The 10 tpi saws I have are all 26" saws except one that I made a panel saw. One of the 26" saws is a 1960s vintage sharpened as a rip saw. It is handy when cutting out chair seat blanks and such. I will try it on tenons, but I don't expect much from it.

I have decided to re-tooth an old Disston back saw to 12 tpi rip and see what happens.

[Tony Shea]

I am confused I guess. I have a LN 16" tenon (rip) saw, a LN 12" tenon (rip) saw, and a LN dovetail saw. All these saws are designed for rip. All but the 16" tenon saw has what I see as 0* rake. Which is very aggressive, as aggressive as you'd want. I therefore was under the impression that their rip carcass saw would also have the same rake angle of 0*. My 16" I believe has a slightly relaxed rake angle but is still no where near your 30* angle you refer to.

As Derek has said I believe you must be talking about a crosscut saw and just can't pick up on the fleam of the teeth. Like I've said before, many people don't care for the aggressive rake angle LN uses on their saws. I for one welcome it.

[lowell holmes]

Well, as it looks now,I compromised the rake (hook) angle when I sharpened the saws. I will check it out.

[Mike Brady]

Tony and Lowell, if you use some magnification to inspect the teeth of your LN rip saws, I think you will find that they have a slight amount of negative rake....at least a few degrees. Zero degrees would make the saw cut more aggressively, although less TPI would be the best solution if you want to opt for speed over smoothness of cut. Most saw people use the terms hook angle and rake angle interchangeably.

If your saws are cutting slowly they may simply need sharpening.

[lowell holmes]

I think I solved my dilemma, I have an old Disston back saw, 1896 - 1917 vintage. It came to me with a handle in 4 pieces, broken teeth, missing teeth, severe corrosion.

I made a new handle for it when I got it (8-10 years ago). It's nothing to brag about, but it works.

I decided to re-tooth it. I have done that. 12 tpi with zero rake. I did a screwdriver set on it. It cuts quickly, smoothly, and stays in the kerf.

The saw was useless before. It's too early to tell, but I think it will be my tenon saw, although it is a bit small for a tenon saw.

I think a new handle is coming, one I'll be willing to show.

It only took me three tries at re-toothing before I was successful. I am a bit slow though. :)