Spray Equipment: Air powered conventional/HVLP vs. Turbine HVLP vs. Airless vs. AAA

[Nick Sorenson]

I have been using traditional lacquer for several years now and have used only conventional air guns to spray it. I started with Binks 2001 copies and have switched to using an Iwata HVLP with a pressure pot. The pressure pot doesn't make much difference but that I don't have to keep filling my cup all the time. The Iwata is a nice air powered gun and I'm pleased with the results.

But now, please school me on the differences and what to expect if I switch to:

1. Turbine HVLP
2. Airless
3. Air Assisted Airless

I spray instruments so I don't need fast huge area coverage. I use a full size conventional air powered gun right now and I like the control I have with that speed. I don't like touchup guns. But I don't want something designed to spray a barn either. So... that's the background. I spray a glass level table top style finish built from several thinned and wet coats of lacquer with my current air powered guns.


Now, the reason I'm even asking this:
The PDS and the can of most lacquers by almost all major manufacturers mentions Airless as the first/preferred method for applying the product. It seems that most lacquer manufacturers design product viscosity with Airless in mind and some don't even mention conventional guns in their application data sheets. I use the lacquer in my conventional/air powered equipment, BUT I have to thin it at least 50/50 or I get solvent pop (bubbles) with a coat wet enough to flow out.

Curious if I should make a switch. I don't like thinning if I don't have to. That wastes thinner (it is like evaporating my money with every bit of thinner I add), it also requires more coats to get the required film thickness, less coats = less spraying time, I'd also guess it takes longer to cure since more solvent (from the thinner) has to leave before it's cured. Lastly, adding thinner messes with the formulation of the lacquer and I don't like that either.

I'm curious what you guys have experienced in spraying?

[Scott Holmes]

On large jobs I use my AA airless. On small jobs like shooting a small kitchen I'm thinking about a HVPL setup my A-A Airless needs more than a quart of finish before any thing gets to the gun; then adjusting, etc. I need a gallon of whatever to do a job even if the job only needs a quart or so. AAAirless lay a wonderful soft spray like the HVLP but at production speed.

You sound like you would do well with a HVLP or maybe even a HVLP conversion gun. I'm studing them now to see which I want...

Anyone out there have any advice on which to look at and which to stay way from altogether?

[Nick Sorenson]

On large jobs I use my AA airless. On small jobs like shooting a small kitchen I'm thinking about a HVPL setup my A-A Airless needs more than a quart of finish before any thing gets to the gun; then adjusting, etc. I need a gallon of whatever to do a job even if the job only needs a quart or so. AAAirless lay a wonderful soft spray like the HVLP but at production speed.

You sound like you would do well with a HVLP or maybe even a HVLP conversion gun. I studing them now to see which I want...

Anyone out there have any advice on which to look at and which to stay way from altogether?

Sounds like for what I'm doing (a pressure pot filled with around 3 gallons lasts about a month before I need to refill), I have a good setup for the job.

The one and really only thing I'm not happy with is that I have to thin so much. I'd like to not reduce at all and shoot right out of the can. I hate all that wasted solvent evaporating into thin air and of course the extra time wasted on thin material (i.e. having to spray more coats to achieve build).

As far as tips on what's hot and what's not, I'd be glad to hear your experience. I'd like to at least test HF's Turbine HVLP but part of me thinks anything from HF could give a bad first impression on a new type of tool. BUT on the same token I don't have $2k to shell out on a Kremlin AAA just to see if it might work.

[Scott Holmes]

I know what you mean, my AAA lists for around $3500 @ Sherwin Williams stores.

[jud dinsmore]

i have an iwata cup gun and recently upgraded to a ca technologies aaa set up. i spray mostly large table tops and a range of cabinetry and doors.

for your situation, i cannot imagine you doing much better than the set up you have now. i really like the aaa but it is pretty agreeable for the work i'm spraying (large stuff that is sprayed flat). i'm spraying 4-5mils wet in single, fast-paced passes and i'm not thinning my material. i wouldn't think this would work for the work you do.

also, i find that the maintenance and clean up of my aaa set up is not very friendly. i seem to have clogged tips all of the time and other miscues that just aren't present with my cup gun. stuff like this is driving my crazy but it is barely out-weighed by spraying fast, heavy coat, and i'm built for speed.

[Sam Hamory]

Nick,

I'll be an advocate for HVLP. It's what I've sprayed with for about 15 years.

It will provide clean, dry air and a nice soft application of material that is easy to control. The problem I see for you is that HVLP is always under 10 psi and therefore will not spray thicker materials without thinning. My system now is an Earlex 5500 which works great for all of my projects. I've sprayed latex paint, oil paint, water lac/poly, shellac and stain with it without any issues. With the 2.0 and the 1.5 needle I only spent about $360.

[Craig Coney]

Nick,
You could try a pressure pot with a conversion HVLP gun. I have switched to true HVLP, and this may work for you also, but you should consider a 4 stage turbine for your material. You can set up HVLP guns to work with pressure pots also.

[Nick Sorenson]

Would the HVLP turbine unit be more efficient than my Iwata HVLP air powered gun? One of my goals is to not have to thin the lacquer. With Air powered HVLP that I'm now using (and any other air powered I've tried for that matter), if I spray right out of the can without thinning I get solvent pop (bubbles trapped under the surface). This is because I have to lay it on pretty thick if I go unthinned. And it may have something to do with the air driving the paint too. I haven't ever used Airless. So that would answer that question I'd bet.

[Chris Fournier]

I have conventional Devilbiss guns and HVLP turbine set ups. The HVLP that I own is an Apollo unit out of California, it has a three stage turbine and a 2 quart pressure pot should I need to use it. For instrument work I really like the HVLP and with the exception of my EGA jamb gun, the conventional gun is a relic of the past. I pretty much always thin my NC lacquers as I like the way that they flow when thinned with 20 to 25% thinner. I could spray straight out of the can if I wanted to but on a curvacious and sometimes cranny filled object like a guitar I wouldn't dream of shooting straight lacquer - sags, runs and drips.