Considering Shaper. Input?

[alex grams]

I am looking at a shaper, as I have been unhappy with my router table's performance when it comes to larger profile mouldings. I find the lack of mass in the router table helps the router 'chatter' and make bumpy/wavey cuts. I have my current router table (jessem mast'r lift) in the extension wing of my sawstop. My main complaint is the difficulty of having consistent depth of cutting height when doing raised panel doors on the rails and stiles, and on larger profiles, the router cant keep up with the cut, or (as stated) the lack of mass/heft in the table causing the bit/wood to not run smoothly and the slight chatter in the bit. (kind of hard to explain).

Those are the main reasons I would consider a shaper. The idea of a shaper with router bit adapters for 1/2" router bits is nice, because I would probably still use the router table for the smaller profiles, but for larger profiles the shaper, which would also address my concern of lower RPM's on the shaper being an issue, as the larger profiles I would make on the shaper wouldn't need the higher RPM's.

I am curious for those with both if my reasons for considering a shaper align with the benefits I would receive from investing in one.

Thanks in advance.

[David Keast]

I have both a shaper and a router table and use both a lot. Major advantages of the shaper : much more power, more solid fences and hold downs etc., large diameter cutters are less prone to tear out, cutters are MUCH cheaper, cutters are easy to sharpen. I tend to do most work on the shaper unless the work piece is too small to handle safely (or indeed unless it is too big, when I use a hand held router).

Adaptors for router bits need to be very good quality to avoid excentricity problems and, anyway, you lose the advantages of the big diameter cutter and easy sharpening. Shaper cutters are so much cheaper that I would buy those rather than an adaptor even if I already had the appropriate router cutter.

[david brum]

After you use a shaper for cutting profiles, there's no turning back. The cuts are much cleaner, owing to the better cutting angle of the larger diameter cutter. If you're shopping for a shaper though, make sure you get a stock feeder as well. That's the secret to getting consistent depth cuts without ripples, not to mention that hand feeding wood into a shaper is asking for it.

David is right about shaper cutters being much cheaper, although I'm pretty sure he's talking about European cutter heads with interchangeable HSS cutters. These cut beatifully and most cutters are around $20 per pair. There are tons of profiles available. Here's an example http://www.cmtutensili.com/show_items.asp?pars=HK~~2
(http://www.cmtutensili.com/show_items.asp?pars=HK~~2)
Let us know which shaper you choose!

[pat warner]

In your case, I'd say you're trading one set of don't-likes for another.
Indeed big cutters in small routers are compromises but, given the fixturing, quality material prep and practice: Good cuts of all sorts can be had on the router table.
The same principles apply to the shaper. If you've aced out the router table, the shaper will be at your disposal. If you're having nothing but trouble on the RT, expect no cake-walk with a shaper.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I have a sliding table, tilting spindle shaper with a power feeder. (Hammer B3 Winner)

As others have indicated the Euro insert heads with HSS knives do beautiful work, at about $20 per pair of knives.

Aside from the Felder shaper, most don't spin fast enough to do really good work with router bits. although I have used them at 10,000 RPM with OK results.

I'd purchase The Spindle Molder Handbook, it's the only modern shaper operation book I've seen.................Regards, Rod.

[David Keast]

After you use a shaper for cutting profiles, there's no turning back. The cuts are much cleaner, owing to the better cutting angle of the larger diameter cutter. If you're shopping for a shaper though, make sure you get a stock feeder as well. That's the secret to getting consistent depth cuts without ripples, not to mention that hand feeding wood into a shaper is asking for it.

David is right about shaper cutters being much cheaper, although I'm pretty sure he's talking about European cutter heads with interchangeable HSS cutters. These cut beatifully and most cutters are around $20 per pair. There are tons of profiles available. Here's an example http://www.cmtutensili.com/show_items.asp?pars=HK~~2
(http://www.cmtutensili.com/show_items.asp?pars=HK~~2)
Let us know which shaper you choose!

Yes, that's right, I was talking about intercheangable HSS cutters. I forgot they are not all like that. You can even regrind them for custom profiles.

A sliding table is a great help for cutting tenons for example, or for the end grain cuts on cope and stick cabinet doors, it allows you to move the work square to the path past the cutter which is difficult to do with a fence unless you make a right angle jig. Hope that makes sense, it's difficult to express.

[Jeff Monson]

I tend to use my router table more than my shaper. But they both have their place in the shop, I have used a router adaptor in a PM2700 shaper and was not that impressed, the spindle speed was just too slow. For a panel raising router bit, it worked well though. I'd try to get a 5hp machine if its in the budget, make sure to get one with a nice fence system, the PM2700 I owned had a really nice fence IMO, my current Felder fence is just as nice. You can make some really sweet profiles with the HSS sets available from just about anywhere. Knives are inexpensive and cut well. I would have a hard time without my shaper.

[Mike Goetzke]

Alex - what router are you using? I have a Milwaukee 5625 in my TS wing and I can cut a raised panel with backcutter in one pass with my Freud quatracut (I only do single pass for setup - I take 3 passes on the real parts). The finish is smooth as glass with the grain but the cross grain does need sanding starting at 150.

Mike

[Glen Butler]

I use my shaper more than my router table, but I do a lot of cabinet doors, heavy profiles, and generally longer runs. Even with a slower spindle speed, I prefer router bits in the shaper. The RT has its place for a few bits and for certain setups, but the pros list for a shaper is much longer than the pros for a router table.

[Jeff Duncan]

I have both and use both. I do however spend a lot more time on the shaper, but find the router table is still handy to have for smaller profiles, and also for setups where I need to swap cutters during the process.

I have one shaper with a 1/2" collet and find larger router bits work just fine in it. I hear a lot of people recommend against it, but I've found it an extremely handy feature to have. You adjust your feed rate to compensate and you should not have any issues. I actually just ran a bunch of curved cabinet parts though using a pattern bit and it handled it very well. Normally I would use my insert head with a bearing, but the bearing was shot and I needed it done quickly!

You will find a better cut quality produced by the shaper, but the feeder is a significant part of that improvement. The quality resulting from a firm and steady feed rate is huge. Shaper size, quality, and mass also make a difference. I started out with a Delta HD, moved to a Powermatic 27, and am now using an old Martin for my main machine and the improvement in cut quality is amazing. With the PM 27 I would get a good quality cut with fine ripples as you get from a really well tuned planer. With the Martin I could literally go from shaping to painting if needed. For stain grade I give it a quick pass with sandpaper, but the cut quality is fantastic.

anyway that's my two cents, good luck!

JeffD