Considering a helix 24 30 watt - hoping to get a few real world opinions

[Bryce Mccloud]

Hello to all

My first post - and it looks like a long one

I've been researching laser engravers here for a bit and I am ready to make the plunge -
I've narrowed it down to the epilog brand I think

All the samples I have done have been for my primary use - to engrave woodblocks for my letterpress business. For those unfamiliar it is a printing process that presses metal and wood block into paper to transfer the ink. Likely many have seen the work on high end cards or wedding invitations! Right now I get plates made via acid etching or using a polymer plate process when not using hand carved blocks and old metal type.

It seems to be a subset of a subset for laser engravers but I know several people who are getting good results working this way. I am still honing in on the best material for the use. Recommended to me is solid cherry and maple to produce fine detail that will stand up to the pressure a press exherts on the block. The press requires blocks to be .918 of an inch to run. Thinner material can be shimmed up.

I am fairly confident that with a bit of practice I can get the process to work. But any advice before I put my money on the barrel is appreciated

I am looking at helix 24 mainly for the bed size - I routinely use blocks up to 18x24 now and don't want to limit my work to the smaller sized machines. But because of my budget I am considering the 30 watt machine to start with.

The question is ....what can a 30 watt machine do? Or maybe what CAN'T a 30 watt machine do?

We will be producing blocks for ourselves mainly and thus I will need to make just a few a day max. *I can't imagine a situation where I will be trying to crank out a bunch of volume - so speed will be a relative thing. Right now it takes days to get plates back from my suppliers.

The sales reps tell me power equals speed - from what I have seen I'm looking at a between 30 minutes and a few hours per block On the demo 30 watt

So beyond engraving for type blocks I hope to do some fun things like cut complicated shapes out of paper, mat board, and hopefully wood. The goal to make interesting limited run things to sell in my shop. I'd like to cut stickers and the like too but I've read about needing to watch out for vinyls and PVC

How thick of material can I hope to cut with a 30 watt machine? With a reasonable speed ( say less than a regular work day :))

I'm hoping to cut cleanly at least 1/8 inch and would be really happy with 3/8 or 1/2 inch
Mostly plan to use wood for these cutting projects. They are secondary uses but I really want to maximize my investment and get as many uses out of the machine as I can. I would be going with a laser over another plate maker system for just this sort of versatility.

The reps tell me I can upgrade to a higher watt tube down the road if I really need more power.

What kind of cost would I be looking at to step up to a 45 or 60 watt tube?

I'm also a Mac user so I am considering getting a pc to dedicate to this machine and I guess find a copy of photoshop and illustrator to run on it as those are my regular programs. Anybody out there have a better idea?

Finally price
How much wiggle room is there in the new prices - is this like a car? Or buying a Mac computer where the price is the price.

That's everything I can think of right off the bat

I really appreciate the forums collective wisdom
Thanks for your time

Best
Bryce

To see what I do isleofprintingdotcom

[Rodne Gold]

You will struggle trying to cut any wood thicker than 1/8th with 30w, 30w is really best for "engraving" applications and cutting thinner stuff. You might find a cnc router is a better bet for your applications than a laser..

[paul mott]

Bryce,

I think you need to be looking for more power.
With 30 Watts and for really clean cuts you would be OK with clear acrylic up to 10mm but limited to about 3mm with wood, paper etc. As always there are exceptions and some woods cut better than others also some coloured acrylics can be a real pain.
Perhaps best to get test samples of your required product done before you buy.

Paul.

[Joe Kace]

I have a Helix 40w, and I so regret not going with a bigger tube. When this one runs out and has to be replaced, I am definitely going to get a 75 because cutting takes a long time with a 40 in my opinion and time is money.

[Duncan Crawford]

Re the Mac use-- that's what I do with my Mini-18. You've got three main choices-- Bootcamp, VMware Fusion, or Parallels. There's also at least one other/newer virtual machine vendor out there that let's you run Windows as a Mac application, plus Crossover from codeweavers.com where you can run just selected Windows apps. Coreldraw isn't yet supported by Crossover. At any rate, in my experience any of the first three will work well-- depends on whether you need simultaneous access to Mac apps while you're running Windows. If not, Bootcamp from Apple is free, and Windows just runs natively on the box after you reboot. One of the forum moderators uses this method with great results.

My personal preference is VMware fusion. The latest version (4.0.1) not only has Lion support but offers full screen mode (and yes, works with OS X 10.6.7 and 10.6.8). I use Windows XP on a Macbook Pro to drive the laser-- do my design work on a MacPro desktop using the same VMware setup, send files out to the shop and the laptop via WiFi. CorelDraw X4 and X5 both run just fine and the hardware compatibility is seamless-- zero issues with the Epilog printer driver. The versatility of having both environments available is useful at least to me. I do a fair number of photos on wood, plus use BoxIt and the freeware Boxmaker-- the BoxIt macro suite runs in CorelDraw while I use Boxmaker as a Java app on the Mac side and import its .pdf output into Corel. Some photos get processed in Photoshop on the Mac side (e.g. for image extraction) or the 'Gold method' you can find here in the forum archives and then drag/dropped into Windows for import into Corel, or perhaps processing via 1-Touch Photolaser or Epilog's EngraveLab.

So, no worries about being a Mac person-- needs to be a newer Intel-based Mac and you still need a copy of Windows-something and presumably CorelDraw (or other vector graphics app) but the virtual machine software will only set you back $50 until the end of this year (then back to $79).

duncan

[Scott Shepherd]

Bryce, yes, it's like buying a car, don't let anyone tell you different. In my experience, there's plenty of working room.

Trotec laser is said to be coming out with a pure Mac driver. You may want to look into that. Their pricing is very good these days too. Their shows specials (prices from trade shows) is certainly down there with the Epilog.

I don't know the release date of it, it may be years away, I don't know, but I do recall it being mentioned some time ago, so I would hope they are moving forward with it.

[David Fairfield]

You'll be real happy with what this thing can do for the job you have in mind. But, as others have mentioned, if you're engraving a lot of hardwood, you'll probably wish you invested in higher power.

Consider that you ought not leave the machine unattended while it operates, and it can get a bit noisy with the blower on, cutting big plate blocks might start to feel ponderous in a 30w. Even if you are now accustomed to waiting days for them.

I'm really happy with my 35 Watt, does everything I need, very reliably and consistently. The new driver plays nice with Adobe Illustrator. But my next laser will be no less than 45w. Power translates to speed and depth of cut.

Dave

[Bryce Mccloud]

thank you everyone for your opinions -
I might still go with the 30 watt machine with the thought of upgrading the wattage down the road if it proves to be the right direction - from talking to the dealer upgrading the tube is fairly easy and from a pricing stand point it isn't a much of a $ penalty to wait until later to do so.

I think my eyes are now open to the limitations of the machine and though I would love the extra power I am sure - I feel like the machine will accomplish my main goals. Everything else is going to be gravy.
I guess the proof will be in the pudding! and I hope not to eat my words

the mac info is all good information - I have an older intel mac that needs some work and I might be upgrading to a new machine to design on anyway - maybe I can repurpose it when I get the new machine.
I don't have a beef with PCs but none of my friends - not even even computer guys who make their living coding- use them - so my knowledge on them is about nil

When you run your mac via bootcamp or whatever - can you toggle back and forth between environments? or is a restart each time deal?
that might save me having to have separate computer for the laser

Mac users - I design in photoshop and illustrator
is getting corel for the PC and importing the way to go? or is it a better bet to get Adobe software for the PC as well and know I wont have any translation issues? what file types can you export from mac and into the pc that work well?

I keep seeing mentions of this but do some of you have the machines setup to print wirelessly?
how is that accomplished?



I'm going to talk the dealer and see what sort of arrangements we can make

thanks again - I look forward to joining the ranks

Bryce

[David Fairfield]

I can't tell you if it makes financial sense to have a dedicated PC for your laser, but I can tell you that Adobe Illustrator runs flawlessly on a PC. (In my case, better than it ever did on my Mac lemon.) Some of the key commands are a little different but once you are accustomed to them, you should be able to toggle back and forth between your Mac and a PC as second nature.

[Scott Shepherd]

When you run your mac via bootcamp or whatever - can you toggle back and forth between environments? or is a restart each time deal?
that might save me having to have separate computer for the laser

Using Bootcamp, you have to restart. Using Parallels, you don't. You can toggle back and forth.


Mac users - I design in photoshop and illustrator
is getting corel for the PC and importing the way to go? or is it a better bet to get Adobe software for the PC as well and know I wont have any translation issues? what file types can you export from mac and into the pc that work well?

You can save out of Illustrator as an .eps file and CorelDraw will import that. CorelDraw will open some .ai files, if I recall correctly, but I've never had much luck with it. .eps works fine. You can design on the Mac side, save as .eps, and open the PC side, CorelDraw, import it, and be done. Photoshop, you can do the same thing, just save it in a CorelDraw friendly format and you can import it just fine.

[David Fairfield]

Illustrator to Corel did not really work for me. I don't know how it is with the most recent versions, but back in 2006, Corel would screw up stuff I had done in Illustrator, wierd stuff, like line widths would be changed and other odd things I had to go through and fix. And being an Illustrator guy, I did not like being at the bottom of the Corel learning curve and wasting time fumbling around trying to learn it.

What worked better for me was saving in Illustrator on Mac or PC on a thumb drive, and just plugging it into the other computer. Or emailing the file from one computer to the other. Software in either computer recognizes its own files just fine.

Dave

[Larry Allred]

I have an Epilog Helix 50 watt with the 24 x 18 bed. I work with wood up to 1/4" and acrylic 1/8-3/8". Have done etching with nice maple blanks.

For what it's worth, I'm soooo glad we got the 50 watt. 30 may seem good enough now, but you'll outgrow it really fast. The more you do with your laser, the more you'll think of doing. Even with 50 watts cutting thick materials and etching hardwoods is painfully slow, sometimes requiring 2 passes. Time is absolutely money in this business. Next year we'll need to expand and buy a second laser. It'll have to be at least a 50, but preferably a 75 with a larger bed.

Good luck with your decision, and your business. Epilog is a great machine.