Don't kid yourself....

[Mark Singer]

With all the people slipping into the engaging quest for planes and handtools, I thought I would do a bit of accounting... How much have I spent on planes in the last 10 years. That would exclude my Father's Stanleys that were passed down and my older stuff that I seemed to have forever. I just kinda went ..."$100+ $200+ another $200.........Total= about $3000"....it adds up. Granted I have more than I need to do nice work, I couldn't really conceive of working without them....and If I went to sell them, I could probably get 90% back... So it is kinda like a big Italian Bandsaw with a super blade...what can I say....I love them both!

[Jeff Sudmeier]

WOW! To think I was starting to see the light... with those figures I don't know :) Nah, I know some more hand tools are in my future....

[Dave Anderson NH]

I have done an accounting of my tools for insurance purposes though it remains hidden so Sue doesn't see the result.:eek: I can say that I easily have 4 times as much invested ( note the word invested) in hand tools as I have in power tools. My power stuff is pretty modest in both size and expense by anyones measure, though they serve their purposes well and I forsee few upgrades in the future. My hand tools, planes in particular, just seem to multiply after every tool auction, flea market, and in some cases after the introduction of new models by various makers. Fortunately I'm still in denial so there aren't any problems.:D It's gotten to be enough of a storage challenge that I'm seriously thinking about making another plane till though I haven't a clue about where I'd put it.

[Michael Ballent]

That is a load of cash in planes, but at least you did not spend it all at one shot :D like you would for the big BS. I saw the value of hand tools when a buddy came over to help me fit the tennon I made for a breadboard end on a table top I was making. I was trying to sand it down with a block and it was taking a ton of time to make the tennon thinner. He came over and before I knew it the tennon was the corrected and the breadboard end just slipped right in. That sold me right there. Right now I am looking for a block plane, and down the road I will be picking up a shoulder plane. Futher down I am not sure, due the fact that those buggers get expensive real quick.

[Roy Wall]

Totally agree..............

Especially with the investment aspect of the planes........that's why I pick them up here and there (LN's I mean). I believe when, and if, I sell.......the LN's will hold their value and are fairly cost effective --- although not totally --- in comparison to "User Stanleys"

Two years ago, I didn't know what a hand plane was (Well, not really, but you guys know what I mean):) So I researched........and picked up a few Stanleys here and there to learn, clean, flatten, etc.. - now I've got a good starter set of LN's and will probably get a few more (Lee Valley will not be shut out either:p

So, I'm at a measley $1185 in planes and will probably double it in another year.

It's the fit, finish, and craftsmanship that these tools bring to Woodworking that make them worth it.

[Steve Wargo]

I think Tom's spent that in Chisels in the last month :D . All kidding aside I probably have about 3 or 4 times as much into my hand tools as I do into my power tools. But there is a good thing about being a hand tool user. If my shop ever gets broken into there doesn't look like there's anything to steal. Of course if they open up the cabinet of moulding planes and had any idea what they were... that's another story.

[John Dingman]

I know what you guys are talking about :D I have a ton of money invested in Hand tools. Like Dave, my powerd tools with the exception of the Unisaw, are very modest. I was told when I was setting up my shop to buy "the Best Table Saw I could Possibly Afford," and then build my shop around it. The hand tool bug bit me hard about a year and a half ago. ;) It all started with a Stanley Bailey No. 4 Type 13 hand plane. And the rest as they say, is History... :rolleyes: Let's just say I could buy another Uni with what I've spent on hand tools in the last 12 months :eek: But I must say this, the whole experience of woodworking has become more enjoyable with the addition of hand tools to the shop. I didn't know what I was missing. But I do know this, I am going to start buying some wood :eek: :eek: :eek: and start making some "Stuff" before my wife asks me again....."Are you going to just collect tools, or are you going to make something with them?" :( OUCH! So it's off to the woodshop to make a bunch of "stuff"

John

[James Carmichael]

Excellent point, Mark. I've seen the argument made by both the Electron-eater and Knukle-dragger tribes that their way is the more economical when, in fact, either slope is just as slippery:-)

[Mark Singer]

Another thing to consider here....my average trip to the lumber yard for a project is around $800 to $1600 .....and I have made a lot of those trips! The point is that the tool cost is negligable if you are making stuff....using what your making , enjoying the process, it is great therapy and you are learning something along the way. That is the real value in what we do!

[Keith Christopher]

...I saw the value of hand tools when a buddy came over to help me fit the tennon I made for a breadboard end on a table top I was making. I was trying to sand it down with a block and it was taking a ton of time to make the tennon thinner. He came over and before I knew it the tennon was the corrected and the breadboard end just slipped right in...Michael,

Yep, using a rabbeting block plane you can make tenons slip in at JUST the right thickness. I also use it to make my splines as "perfect" as I can. If you're looking for a block plane. I strongly recomment the rabbeting block plane from L-N. I love mine and it does it's job SO SO well.


Another thing to consider here....my average trip to the lumber yard for a project is around $800 to $1600 .....and I have made a lot of those trips! The point is that the tool cost is negligable if you are making stuff....using what your making , enjoying the process, it is great therapy and you are learning something along the way. That is the real value in what we do!

Mark,

You're so right I think about the last load of mahogany I bought and I think WOW if I'd had spent that one tool. But then again, WTH would I do with them if I spent all my money on tools and none on lumber.. :D


Keith

[Tom Scott]

I've never added mine up. I probably should for insurance reasons, but I'm not sure I want to know (I might let it slip to LOML :eek: ). Mine has been acquired over a longer period with a little here, a little there. By contrast, I stood in line behind a guy at the last woodworking show who dropped $4000 at the L-N booth, and that didn't include the chisels and bench he was going to order off the web site. He got a free t-shirt, though. Yes, there was a little envy...

Tom

[Scott Parks]

I'm beginning to feel inadequate and depressed here... :( I have 4 planes that I've invested about $2 in sandpaper to clean up and sharpen them... And my next trip to the lumber yard is for $2.39/bdft poplar and MDF because that is all I can afford right now.:(

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Another thing to consider here....my average trip to the lumber yard for a project is around $800 to $1600 .....and I have made a lot of those trips! The point is that the tool cost is negligable if you are making stuff....using what your making , enjoying the process, it is great therapy and you are learning something along the way. That is the real value in what we do!

That's the truth Mark. It only cost me $600 for walnut to make the tables that sold for $500 at the furniture store!

[John Scarpa]

Mark,
I certainly does add up. I have my self on hold for any significant purchases until the shop is complete. But after that I do plan to "add-up" some more planes to the small collection I have. I do like the fact that one can recoup much of their value if you change your mind. The ebay prices for LNs are close to new prices. I'm not sure about the LVs. I hope so because I have my eye on the low angle jack among others!
John

[Zahid Naqvi]

I'm beginning to feel inadequate and depressed here... :( I have 4 planes that I've invested about $2 in sandpaper to clean up and sharpen them... And my next trip to the lumber yard is for $2.39/bdft poplar and MDF because that is all I can afford right now.:(

You are not alone Scott :D :D :D
I picked up a $7 Disston from a flea market today, which brings my hand saw collection to 4. Same number of hand planes, three of which have been de_rusted and cleaned into usable condition by yours truly.

[JayStPeter]

Mark,

I haven't been at the handplane thing very long. Maybe a few years. But, I already have around $1K worth. There's still a few I need to make a decent set to complement my power tools. I think you're right that I'll continue to find some I "need" for a long time. But, I really don't see that I'll break $2K for a long time. Especially since I have already sold some once I replaced them with something that worked better for me.
I've gotten quite a few of my hand tools as gifts. My Christmas list has been around 80% Lee Valley for the last few years. For some reason nobody buys the MM20 or jointer/planer combo machine I also put on it. :confused:

Jay

[David Fried]

Your Right !!!

I have a small bag of hand tools. Just a few basics, no expensive planes, like sharpening equipment, motise chisels, marking guages, bevels, striking knives, squares, rulers, etc.. A quick count came up to $700!!! :eek:

Amazing. You spend it 20-30 at a time but it adds up quick!

[Tom LaRussa]

I'm beginning to feel inadequate and depressed here... :( I have 4 planes that I've invested about $2 in sandpaper to clean up and sharpen them... And my next trip to the lumber yard is for $2.39/bdft poplar and MDF because that is all I can afford right now.:(
Don't feel bad Scott, you certainly aren't alone.

I think Mark probably has more money in LN tools alone than I have in my entire shop -- power tools included.

[Mark Singer]

Tom,

I have a few LN planes, Not as many as you suggest though...I do have their chisels which you would probably appreciate! That wasn't always the case....I made some very nice things 30 years ago with very primative tools. In the last 20 years I have spoiled myself a bit. I do make Architectural wood models and that requires patience and detail...it is really the only business related aspect of my work. One thing for sure is I am using everything....I have always been prolific and go from one project to the next..No tool in my shop is collecting dust.
At any level and regarless of your skill or tools , you can have fun and be creative and learn. That is the real value in woodworking...if you enjoy it and have the money , buy yourself something nice! You only go around once...as they say!

Don't feel bad Scott, you certainly aren't alone.

I think Mark probably has more money in LN tools alone than I have in my entire shop -- power tools included.

[JayStPeter]

Your Right !!!

I have a small bag of hand tools. Just a few basics, no expensive planes, like sharpening equipment, motise chisels, marking guages, bevels, striking knives, squares, rulers, etc.. A quick count came up to $700!!! :eek:

Amazing. You spend it 20-30 at a time but it adds up quick!

If you're counting all that stuff ... well, I don't even want to know :eek:

Mark, so far I have one LN chisel. Just wanted to try one out before committing that kind of cash. I will be completing that set!

Jay

[Chris Padilla]

Here is how I look at it: What else am I going to do with my money??? Saving it is just 'plane' boring.... :)

[Mark Singer]

Chris, you could get 1 1/2 % interest in the bank.....that is a lot if fun!:rolleyes:
Here is how I look at it: What else am I going to do with my money??? Saving it is just 'plane' boring.... :)

[Geoff Irvine]

Mark - lets look at this in terms of relativity. I've just got back from New York where I happened to know that 3 large packages where waiting for me from LN - in return for a donation of $4205.90. However the wife didn't. Now being a sensitive new age guy I had a millisecond twinge of guilt and agreed (before she knew the packages were waiting) that the wife could buy a handbag that she wanted. So 'stupid'http://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/confused.gif got dragged into the Chanel shop (should be called shearing shed- go there and get fleeced!!). $1640.00http://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/eek.gif (no that is not a typo) for 1 handbag. As pointed out the LN can be redeemed for 90% of their cost at least. Now that handbag will give a lot of enjoyment to my wife and that is fair enough and I don't mind too much. But the LN stuff will be around well after me and the handbag are worm food and we are making sure that the craftmanship LN practices is not lost. (Let us know how convincing this sounds so I can use it on the wifehttp://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/wink.gif ) So overall I think that instead of keeping my money in the bank and gettng 'sod all' interest I would rather be investing some of it in tools (that can only go up in price in the future ) that give me a lot of satisfaction.

[Mark Singer]

My wife and daughter are very much the same....they do look for deals though, I must say. About 2 years ago, I got a package UPS and it was a plane, my daughter saw me open the package.....a little latter in the kitchen my wife said "What was in the box?" my daughter replied "Another one of those woodworking things....just like all the other ones he already has!" between the 2 of them they must have 50 or 60 handbags....![ and as you know , they are not cheap...
Mark - lets look at this in terms of relativity. I've just got back from New York where I happened to know that 3 large packages where waiting for me from LN - in return for a donation of $4205.90. However the wife didn't. Now being a sensitive new age guy I had a millisecond twinge of guilt and agreed (before she knew the packages were waiting) that the wife could buy a handbag that she wanted. So 'stupid'http://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/confused.gif got dragged into the Chanel shop (should be called shearing shed- go there and get fleeced!!). $1640.00http://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/eek.gifhttp://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/eek.gif (no that is not a typo) for 1 handbag. As pointed out the LN can be redeemed for 90% of their cost at least. Now that handbag will give a lot of enjoyment to my wife and that is fair enough and I don't mind too much. But the LN stuff will be around well after me and the handbag are worm food and we are making sure that the craftmanship LN practices is not lost. (Let us know how convincing this sounds so I can use it on the wifehttp://sawmillcreek.org/images/smilies/wink.gif ) So overall I think that instead of keeping my money in the bank and gettng 'sod all' interest I would rather be investing some of it in tools (that can only go up in price in the future ) that give me a lot of satisfaction.

[John Dingman]

See herein lies the problem....you guys are going about this the wrong way. This is what I did. I started buying the LOML diamonds :eek: YES, that's right, DIAMONDS! I kept buying her diamonds until she said STOP! "I have enough Diamonds." Anytime I get another tool I simply look at the Diamond Bracelet, or the Diamond Necklace, Or the Diamond Anniversary Ring, or the Diamond Ear Rings and just smile and ask, "do you need more Diamonds?" And she says "no." And I wink at her, kiss her cheek, and go on my merry way. ;)

Worked for me,
John

[Mark Singer]

John,

We have done the diamonds too....!:confused:

[Jim Becker]

This is what I did. I started buying the LOML diamonds :eek: YES, that's right, DIAMONDS! I kept buying her diamonds until she said STOP! "I have enough Diamonds." Anytime I get another tool I simply look at the Diamond Bracelet, or the Diamond Necklace, Or the Diamond Anniversary Ring, or the Diamond Ear Rings and just smile and ask, "do you need more Diamonds?" And she says "no." And I wink at her, kiss her cheek, and go on my merry way.
Fortunately for me...Dr. SWMBO doesn't like diamonds. (Her engagement ring is a saphire... ;) ) But I do buy southwestern Native American earrings in my travels for her...

[John Dingman]

John,

We have done the diamonds too....!:confused:Mark, you have got some big time problems then if he diamonds didn't work :eek: :eek: Seriously though, I was cutting up a little. I have bought the LOML a ton of Diamonds. And the tools I purchase, I purchase with funds received through part time employment, procured for just that purpose, buying tools. Also, from funds procured through the sale of reconditioned tools. I find that if I don't take any funds for tools from the household funds, then there isn't any problems in paradise.

John

[John Dingman]

Fortunately for me...Dr. SWMBO doesn't like diamonds. (Her engagement ring is a saphire... ;) ) But I do buy southwestern Native American earrings in my travels for her...Jim, we have a shop right here in Racine loaded with that kind of stuff. ;)

John

[Mark Singer]

John, actually my wife is very cool and encourages me to get whatever I want.

I treat myself and the family quite well....What am I going to save it for. I tend to place the restrictions on myself.... I like to know I will really use whatever I am going to get and it is something I really need. It is the way I was brought up I guess....as I child we were poor ...my Father always was afraid of another depression and he was conservative. So it became instilled. In business I am just the opposite of my Dad....It paid off. Still I ponder every decision carefully...like most of us do.... and really should, I think

[Jerry Palmer]

Another thing to consider here....my average trip to the lumber yard for a project is around $800 to $1600 .....and I have made a lot of those trips! The point is that the tool cost is negligable if you are making stuff....using what your making , enjoying the process, it is great therapy and you are learning something along the way. That is the real value in what we do!
Gotta agree there. With around $1200 in materials for the cabinets in my home office, I think my labor probably paid for a sizeable percentage of my tailed tools. I don't dare do an accounting of my hand tools, although most of the bench planes were bargains on e-bay before the larger market chasing them drove the prices up. The problem now is that the planes I covet now are somewhat more rare than the early purchases. Though I prefer the vintage models, if their prices are driven up to within a few tens of dollars of what I can get a new "quality" model, then for use I'll spend the extra bucks.

[Jerry Palmer]

You are not alone Scott :D :D :D
I picked up a $7 Disston from a flea market today, which brings my hand saw collection to 4. Same number of hand planes, three of which have been de_rusted and cleaned into usable condition by yours truly.
One of the great things about hand tools and getting proficient in their use is that a few hand tools can replace a lot of very expensive tailed tool jigs and accessories and leave you with more money to spend on wood. Other than the very recent acquisition of my Veritas Large Shoulder Plane and a handmade Dovetail saw, the rest of my hand tools are "user" vintage ones which I've refurbished, to include a bunch of old Disston saws. I am to the point of hand tools that I would "really like to have" as opposed to the absolute gotta haves in order to do the work. So raw materials are more important than new tools.

But each project still brings up another tool that it would be nice to have, but I don't think that ever ends.:D

[Jerry Palmer]

Had to laugh about Geoff's getting "dragged" around the Chanel store. I wouldn't mind my wife spending on stuff for her if I didn't have to get dragged around the stores with her. I mean, I order most of my stuff on line and don't expect her to go to the tool store with me. If I need to get something at Woodcraft, I'll stop there alone on my way home from the day job. But she drags me all over the mall and elsewhere to "approve" what she wants to buy. I'd rather be making sawdust.:D

[Mark Singer]

I am there !
Had to laugh about Geoff's getting "dragged" around the Chanel store. I wouldn't mind my wife spending on stuff for her if I didn't have to get dragged around the stores with her. I mean, I order most of my stuff on line and don't expect her to go to the tool store with me. If I need to get something at Woodcraft, I'll stop there alone on my way home from the day job. But she drags me all over the mall and elsewhere to "approve" what she wants to buy. I'd rather be making sawdust.:D

[Geoff Irvine]

Actually one of the highlights of going to New York (apart from the 3 packages of tools) for me was visiting Joel Moskowitz's 'Tools for Working Wood' showroom. Couldn't stay long though-only $180's duration- as the wife was with me - her comment afterward was 'as interesting as watching paint dry'. At least I got to take a Ray Isles A6-21/2 for a drive.Could have spent the whole week there myself. What is interesting is the dichotomy of attitude - I do so love to compare different shades of pastel/cloth/cut/dress style , don't you? Don't get me wrong I love my wife and don't begrudge her a thing but...
PS If you are in New York I would say do yourself a favour and visit Joel's showroom just to meet him he is a real tool fanatic and really good value. He has IMHO a great attitude re tools - they are there to be used.
PPS He asked what I had got on this trip to the states and I said I had picked up, amongst other things, a LN mortise chisel set (only available from the factory at moment) and he said that he was about to bring out a set (I think in conjunction with Sorby or Iles) in about 5months so might be worth keeping an eye on his web sitel

[Roy Wall]

Had to laugh about Geoff's getting "dragged" around the Chanel store. I wouldn't mind my wife spending on stuff for her if I didn't have to get dragged around the stores with her. I mean, I order most of my stuff on line and don't expect her to go to the tool store with me. If I need to get something at Woodcraft, I'll stop there alone on my way home from the day job. But she drags me all over the mall and elsewhere to "approve" what she wants to buy. I'd rather be making sawdust.:D
I'm pretty lucky.....my wife does most of her shopping over lunch or right after work.
She has high tastes......probably could care less if I had the entire LN line:rolleyes: