Any information leading to the identification . . . . (large images)

[Jonathan McCullough]

Here’s another mystery saw. I’m usually pretty canny about identifying old saws (wouldn’t ma be proud?), but this one has me stumped, so I’m throwing it to you, in the hopes that it might jog someone’s memory and allow me to find out who sold and/or made this saw.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/Jonathryn/Mystery Saw/DSC03870.jpg

When I picked it up, it was a dead ringer for a Disston No. 16. The nuts didn’t appear to be original, but the Warranted Superior medallion had a keystone on it. Maybe a Disston-made department store saw, I thought. The saw cleaned up pretty well. The taper grinding is not as pronounced as a No. 12, more like a Keen Kutter No 816 I have. The temper and tension are very nice though, which leads me to believe that whatever label it may have been sold under, it was more likely a Simonds No. 71.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/Jonathryn/Simonds 71 Cross Cut/DSC03117.jpg

The corrosion on the non-show side is reminiscent of the folds and wrinkles of a plastic bag, as though it were left in the rain at the back of a pickup truck on some leftovers from a shopping trip to the grocery store. I consider this a form of American folk art I like to call pickupu handsawru gyotaku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyotaku), since flea marketers never fail to include it for free on most of the saws I get from them. Unfortunately, they just as consistently manage to allow the etch to become obscured with corrosion, to the point where many saws become difficult to distinguish.

I did my best to clean and photograph the etch but the upper portion was just simply gone.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/Jonathryn/Mystery Saw/DSC03868.jpg

The rest reminded me for all the world of the famous Budweiser beer label (http://www.etiquettesystems.com/beer_label_evolution.html). The line art is that whimsical, florid, Turkish-inspired Victorian you see carved on Stick Style houses around my neck of the woods. Hard to describe but you’d know it once you’ve seen it.

What’s left of the etch is the usual saw quality hyperbole:

MADE FROM THE {logo} VERY BEST
CAST STEEL WARRANTED

This saw is made for mechanics’ use
Its quality and finish is guaranteed

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/Jonathryn/Mystery Saw/AnheuserBusch3b.jpg

The central logo seems to have “88” written on it and it reminds me of a two-faced Janus emblem I’ve seen on old Hibbard, Spencer & Bartlett department store saws. The “No. 88” depicted here

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/Jonathryn/Mystery Saw/AnheuserBusch2.jpg

is a skewback with no nib and the handle is entirely different, but retailers would often change manufacturers and styles and sell the different saws under the same name/designation.

If anyone has information I’d be much obliged.

[Andrae Covington]

The apparent "88" in the etch suggests to me a Keen Kutter No. 88 (sometimes K88), which as you probably know was a trade name of the Simmons Hardware Company based in St. Louis. A pass through Keen Kutter saws on ebay turned up a variety of different etch designs, though I didn't see one that matches yours.

The Keen Kutter saws usually had a Keen Kutter branded medallion though, I believe. You did note that the sawnuts did not appear to be original, so maybe someone replaced the handle at some point, or, lost the nuts and medallion and bought generic replacements. If the handle is indeed original, it does not seem to have enough wheat carving to be a Disston No. 16, but too much (as in more than none) to be a Disston D-16. This leads credence to the possibility of being a Simonds No. 71... but as a saw intended for a hardware store rather than sold under their own name, perhaps Disston only did an abbreviated wheat carving on the handle. The wheat carving matches the catalog illustration I have seen for the Simonds 71.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Thanks Andrae. I've got a bunch of Keen Kutters. The saw plates look like Simonds, and the handles look like Disstons. When you think about it, it would have been very easy for any of the major manufacturers to emulate a competitor's goods, and many did just that. Bishop was notorious for that. I've read where the major department stores would turn to "jobbers" for specific sawmaking tasks.

Something about this saw just doesn't say Disston. Given the florid line art, it may actually be very much older than I'd imagined. But, I've been wrong before and doubtless will be again very soon. Just wondered if anyone had seen an etch like that before.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Just a side note Jonathan. In the 19th century the word "Mechanic" was used very differently than today and had several meanings. When writing about things mechanical such as machine tools, engines, etc the word mechanic refered to someone who was essentially operating and fulfilling the functions that today would be done by a degreed mechanical engineer. It was a term of high respect to be called a mechanic. The other equally valid definition of the 19th century had a mechanic as anyone who performed skilled manual labor in any one of several trades. I hope you understand now that I've made it clear as mud.

[Rodney Walker]

Regardless of who made it, it's a good looking saw.
Rodney

[Ray Gardiner]

Hi Johnathan,

Now I'm completely confused, you are showing two different saws, the top one (with the handle removed) has the medallion in the center, and the finished one has the medallion on the bottom? The shape is different as well..

The Simmonds 71 (at least the one I've been able to find) had the medallion on the bottom, which one of the two shown had the Disston keystone warranted superior medallion?

Regards
Ray

PS here is the Simmons 71 from http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-saws/Simonds/pubs/1923-catalog-Al/1923-Catalog-Al.asp

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/Simmonds71.jpg

[Jonathan McCullough]

Hey Ray,

The more I look at it, the more I think the handle is characteristic of something that came out of Disston. The Simonds 71 example I gave above is just an example--you can clearly see there's a Simonds etch on that one; it's a different saw. When you compare Simonds and Disston handles, the "kidney" shape formed by the cutout is distinctive and different for each one. Another wrinkle is that Disston made saws under many, many trade names we may or may not associate with Disston. According to Rose Antique Tools (http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id57.html):


Some of the brand names used by the company not necessarily before 1900 were: G. Bishop; Browns; T. Taylor; Challenge; Jackson, IMP; Keystone Saw Mfg. ; Penna. Saw works; Phila. Saw Co.; Black Diamond Saw CO.; Electric; Blue Jacket; Clipper; Standard; OUr Saw; Enterprise; Advance Special; JOH; Jackson Gorman; Champion Tooth; Diamond Tooth; Tenon Tooth; Tuttle Tooth; Lancet Tooth; ZIP; Virginian; Great Southern; Wizard; Oriole; Suwanee; Buzz; Jesse Lane; Keen Edge; Triumph; Treat American; Mechanics Own; Cant Beat Our Saw; ACME; Davis; Eclipse and Marshall.

Maybe it's a "Mechancs' Own."

Dave, the term mechanic is so old it's German. The earliest use I've come across is in A Midsummer Night's Dream, where a production company is called the "Rude Mechanicals." A vestigial use of the term also crops up in the form of a Mechanics' Lien, when bills left unpaid to "Mechanics" (i.e., electrical, plumbing, HVAC, carpentry, or masonry tradesmen) turn into home selling nightmares. Doubtless you're familiar with Disston's famous No. 77 back saws, featuring the boast "For Mechanics, Not Botchers." Seems to me the advent of the automobile changed the common parlance to signify mostly auto mechanics. In the context and times of this saw and the Disston 77 though, I think mechanic could be translated to today's use simply as "professional" as in "professional's saw." At that time there were also dainty sissified dilettantes' "gents" tools for dollhouse enthusiasts. You know, botchers!

[Ray Gardiner]

Hi Johnathan,

So the picture of the finished saw you posted is a Simmonds 71? and the unfinished one in pieces, is the one you are trying to identify?

You've got to make it easier for us older slower types... :) The etch may be clear to you , but it's not all that clear in the picture....

Regards
Ray

[Jonathan McCullough]

Just an update--finished the handle with some tung oil and wax. It became very dark, and the upper horn is splitty but not enough to justify a repair, so I suspect it's walnut. That's a choice of wood usually reserved for expensive saws.


http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/Jonathryn/Mystery Saw/DSC03876.jpg


The plate is very rigid overall, and even with new files, sharpening the teeth was a bear, so I suspect it was tempered relatively hard. The taper grinding is moderate, so there's plenty of meat left on the saw plate, and it has authority and heft. l was able to cut a very thin slice off the end of a board, and the surface almost felt planed. The general feeling is like a Disston No. 16's slightly beefier cousin. Overall a very nice saw.