Pattern makers vise?

[Joe Cowan]

I am planning on starting on a Maloof style rocker this fall. One tool I do not have, and it seems somewhat necessary, is a pattern makers vice, to help in carving the various parts. I am in the planning stages of a heavy duty workbench, have bought the green rough poplar that I plan to use, but it is still drying and will be next year before I can start that project. For those with experience with either the rocker or using a pattern makers vice, would a temporary small workbench made out of 20" gluelam beams work? I have some scrap beams that are 20"x24" that I was thinking of attaching to one wall next to my mitre saw bench. I now use a workbench designed by Norm and does not seem heavy enough for mounting this vise to it.

[Prashun Patel]

Certainly. I don't have Patternmaker's vise and I've done a couple Maloof-style pieces including the rocker. I have an economy front vise. It works fine. In fact, much of the shaping will be done AFTER the chair is assembled, with you standing or straddling the seat like a shavehorse.

A PMvise is only a nice-to-have.

If you have limited $$$, then IMHO, the money is far better spent on 1) an angle grinder with carbide grinding wheel or 24grit fiber discs or both, 2) high quality rasps, 3) a good spokeshave...in that order. Others will have their faves, but my point is, focus on yr shaping tools and don't be afraid to acquire them; they make all the difference in the final product.

[Joe Cowan]

Yes, but I do not have any type vice. I am planning on getting all the tools I need to complete this project, just wondering if I can get this done without too much frustration, without any vice, pattern or otherwise.

[Larry Fox]

I don't really have much to add regarding your original question but I do have a pattern makers vise. If you get one you will definitely love it but I don't think you should consider it mandatory for the project you are contemplating - or any project for that matter. Unless you already have the vise you might want to take a peek at the prices for them as it can be downright shocking - if you can even get your hands on one. The installation can also be a bit tricky and you need to commit a decent portion of your bench to it. I had to do a pretty deep "carve" into the shirt of my bench to accommodate the rear jaw and the all the room it needed for spinning and articulating.

[Prashun Patel]

IMHO, you will need some kind of vise to hold parts like the arms, spindles, legs, and headrest while you do initial shaping. It'll be very hard to get by with clamps only.

That being said, if you have some pipe clamps, you can make a 'Moxon' vise which might do well.

Ironically, the joinery is the quickest part and possibly easiest part of the project; the shaping takes a lot of time / effort.

[Jeff Duncan]

A small bench may work, but be aware the real pattern makes vises like the Emmert's are very heavy. You would want a small bench like that fastened well to something as otherwise the vise could make it unstable. Also the leg of the vise extends well below the top so you need room for it also.

On a different note you may want to at least consider using a different wood. Poplar is pretty soft for a work bench top. Beech is a much more common wood for this, though other hard species like maple or birch could work well.

good luck,
JeffD

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

I have lined the wood jaws on my Record vise with 1/4" thick cork. The cork has held up extremely well and it gives the vise more bite on irregular surfaces.

[John Schackai]

You got some good advice so far, such as don't use poplar for a bench top--too soft. But, having a pattern maker vise is a dream. I have an Oliver (and beech table) from 1945. Saw an identical one on ebay last week, and you can buy it for $1500!! Wow!! It's worth every penny. It's great to be able to clamp irregular shaped pieces, swing the vise up 90 degrees, or rotate it 180 degrees; and there is even a little part made to clamp metal; and there are four adjustable dogs in the vise itself. Don't let anyone talk you out of getting one as there is no substitute. Oh, you have to line the metal jaws, so you can use anything such as plywood (or cork), but one day you will be putting on new and it will take you all of five minutes.

[Joe Cowan]

I got a good deal on some 2X poplar and got it. I have read many articles in the past on benches made from southern yellow pine and thought poplar would be at least as hard as that. Maybe I will reconsider.

[Jim Neeley]

I have one of the PM clones and as others have said, it is (60#) heavy!

The 20x24 gluelams would work great, as long as you have it secured enough to keep the whole works from tipping, since the vise overhangs the bench. Securing could either be mounting it to a wall or having a very heavy base. I'm assuming the gluelams are fairly thick. My 3'x7' bench is 3.25" thick and I had to route out some to mount it but I wouldn't want to mount it on something much less than 2". The instructions say a minimum of 1-5/8".

You can download the installation instructions from Highland Woodworking.

Jim

Jim

[Jared McMahon]

I was toying around in SketchUp with the idea of making a small Moxon press vise with enough play/splay in the holes of the chops where they could pivot and conform to irregular shapes. Seems doable if you used some small veneer press screws, fender washers as bushings on the front chop, and reamed out the chop holes so they were conical instead of straight-through. Might be a cheap and portable solution, might be a waste of time. I didn't have any burning need for one so I never tried actually executing on the idea.

Just a thought.

[Greg Visser]

I often see the remarks about the softness of poplar. I've used it for over 30 years, on a regular basis, and often find dry poplar too hard to drive nails into. I see no problem using it for a bench top.

[Tim Mahoney]

I've made many a Maloof style rocking chair. I try to preshape most of the pieces prior to assembly and almost all of the pieces are just clamped to one of my work benches ( the one that acts also as my table saw extension). I use a 4" grinder with a kutzall discs for the heavy shaping of the seat which I clamp to a cheap folding work bench taken outside as it gets very dusty. Save your money for good files and raspes as Prashun mentioned because of all the hand work. A good sander that you attach to a vac. I have a couple of different ones so I don't have to keep changing the paper. My front legs are not turned like Maloof's but shaped which adds more hand work but I like the look. Dragon files are my choice of rasps. Pricey but they save so much time. I use a coarse and fine. A couple of gouges for the seat to leg joinery is helpful also.

[Prashun Patel]

Tim - I totally agree with you on the Dragon rasps.

Joe- Good luck. Post progress pix. I love reading Maloof rocker threads. Fun to watch it take shape.

[Joe Cowan]

I am leaning now to buying some dry ash and making the bench this fall and mounting whatever vise I decide on, to it. I can let the poplar dry and use it on something else in the future.

[Prashun Patel]

Joe-
A bench is a wonderful thing; and some treat it like furniture. I made one myself out of hard maple this Spring.

However, I will say that it's not necessary. My prior 2 benches were particle board and MDF, respectively. I did my Maloof rocker on the MDF one. I still love that bench.

My point is, poplar is too soft of a wood for a bench FOR SOME PEOPLE. For me it is not. I think you can make a fine bench that will hold bench dogs and a vise just fine. It will take more dings than other woods, but it will also be lighter and will reflect light better than other woods (which can be a good thing). Also, being softer than most other hardwoods, it'll mar yr projects marginally less than a harder bench.

FWIW, Ash has it's downsides too: it's open grained, so writing and dusting it off can be marginally more difficult than a closed grain wood.

[Jim Matthews]

I made my cheapo Moxxon (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?171223-New-vises-for-a-new-bench&p=1762304&highlight=#post1762304) with Pipe Clamps. The amount of play is entirely dependent on the clearance holes through the clamping faces.

The front and rear faces have the pipe clamp screw mounted. While these could be mounted "free", without retaining screws, adjustments would be ponderous.
The appeal of the Patternmaker's vise is the ease in adjustment. The downside is the amount of time required to fit one properly, so the adjustments are easy.