Help with WOP! (again!!)

[Richard Kennedy UK]

Hi I have a nice piece of chestnut burr that I have hacked chipped and sworn at into a Hollow Form with voids. Due to the size of the main void the interior of the form is visible and has been scratched into submission with various grades of abrasive into a smooth surface I have been wondering how to finish the piece and narrowed the choice down to 3 oil, lacquer from a spray and WOP I haven't done a great deal of work using WOP and although I get the basic process sanding sealer and then numerous coats of the stuff I am wondering if anyone can fill in a few details.

What is the best thing to apply the stuff with a brush, paper, a foam pad, your fingers?????? How long do you leave between coats I saw in a thread that people use upwards of 20 coats are we looking at 2 weeks with a couple of coats a day or can you apply them quicker? I am impatient generally and so this would push me towards a different quicker finish. I also noted that wire wool is a good medium to rub down the surface after coats I have webrax pads would this be ok and finally people mention buffing the piece as a final step I am concerned that due to the nature of the voids buffing could be catastrophic to the survival of this piece as I turned it quite thin is this step avoidable?

All help and tips are welcomed especially those that break the process down into steps a small child would understand! :confused:

Thanks

[John Keeton]

Richard, I will give you my limited experience with WOP in the turning world. 20 coats is a LOT of WOP. I would think most forms would take 6-8 coats with good surface preparation, and particularly with some good shellac work before hand. I apply it with a piece of paper shop towel, but any lint free cloth or shop towel would work. The idea is to achieve a thin coat each time, so a brush is probably not the best choice for a turning - thus the "wipe on" title.

The first coat typically takes 24 hours or more to dry. But, after that, I can get at least 4 coats/day, but I am limited usually to morning, noon, supper, and bedtime due to work schedule. I suspect that one could squeeze in another coat if the humidity was low.

I think any fine abrasive would work for rubbing or leveling the surface. I use the satin WOP, and about 5-6 hours after the last coat, I can rub down with 0000 steel wool, and hand buff with a shop towel for a nice satin luster. If you do not need a high gloss, that might work for you. Or, you could then apply one more finish coat of gloss and hope for minimal "nubs." You could also leave the satin finish on the inside without any form of hand buffing.

Those are just my experiences - limited though they are.

[Dennis Ford]

The way I do it;
* Wipe on thin coat using paper towel (the shop towels I use are a little thicker than household paper towels)
* Let dry (@ 100 deg F recently that took a few hours, it takes a full day in cool weather)
* Sand with 320 or 400 grit
* repeat as needed

The first coat takes the longest to dry, probably because some soaks in making that the heaviest coat. If you want to avoid the buffing, do the last coat in a clean area with as little dust as possible. I have never needed anywhere near 20 coats.

[Bernie Weishapl]

My experience is the same as Dennis. Generally I buff down on the next to last coat with a synthetic wool which works well. Generally it takes about 6 coats to maybe 8. The first coat I soak the piece till it won't take anymore making sure when it soaks up in spots to keep it wet. The first coat I let dry for 24 hrs. The next several coats are applied every 2 to 4 hrs depending on heat and humidity.

[Jon Prouty]

I must be thick or something as I have never gotten WOP to work right for me. I've tried all the above with no luck. Good luck on your piece.JP

[Steve Schlumpf]

Richard, this subject comes up from time to time... so I just saved it in MSWord to keep from retyping. I hope this helps!

Application process that I use: Once the form is complete and sanded I remove it from the lathe and apply the first coat of poly. For this first step I use a 1" sponge brush and try to saturate the wood just like I was using a Danish oil finish. Be sure to wipe off any excess after letting it soak into the wood for a few minutes. I let that dry for 24 hours and check for coverage. If the poly was absorbed into sections of the form, saturate the form once again and wipe off the excess.

After waiting for at least 24 hours to let the saturated coat set up, you can then apply the first of many thin coats. I use a paper towel folded up to make a small pad, wipe on a thin coat and let dry for 3 to 5 hours, depending on the temp and humidity. Usually the thin coats dry really fast because they are so thin and should never be thick enough to cause a run. If you miss a spot – try not to go back over as it will lift the existing wet poly. Just make sure to hit the missed spot the next time. The process is more like a French Polish as far as applying the thin coats. I normally apply 2 or 3 coats this way before doing the first light sanding using either a super fine sanding sponge or 600 grit sand paper just to knock off the nubs. I repeat the procedure until I have the level of finish (or gloss) that I want - usually 5 to 7 thin coats.

I find the Minwax Wipe On works great when real fresh but starts to dry up as soon as the can is opened. It’s nothing more than regular Poly that has been thinned down so it will flow better and dry faster. When you notice it get thicker (and darker in color) - just add a little mineral spirits, shake well and you'll be good to go.

[Nate Davey]

Richard,

I've taken my method from the guys here. I dry sand my project to 400 grit, depending on the wood, I then wet sand with BLO, copiously, then buff the slurry off with a paper towel. I then apply two coats of shellac sanding sealer sanding it back between coats using 600. It should, now be very smooth and the grain filled. I then use Steve's method of "French Polishing" the WOP on until it has a deep shine. I make a little fad by crumpling up a small piece of paper towel, then place it in the middle of a small square of paper shop towel, twist the top. If needed, I lightly sand with 3200 Micro Mesh between WOP buffing sessions. Let it cure for a week or so then 3 wheel buff. On wood's I don't want to darken, I use a Lacquer based sanding sealer in lieu of BLO and Shellac, then apply light coats of WOP.

[Chris Barnett]

Not to be construed as criticism (unless of course it's the only way to get it done :D), but folks might wish to adopt the common standard that the first time an abbreviation is used, the word or expression and it's abbreviation are both shown, usually with the abbreviation in parentheses. That way a new passerby does not have to spend time looking up what WOP means...or BLO....or CA...or. It would be the courteous thing to do, and is the accepted standard in many industries, particularly the technical field. Hopefully the shorthand of the web will not be blindly followed...DAMHIKT excepted. An abbreviation dictionary would not supersede this nicety. OTOH knowledge is power.
Respectfully,
Chris

[Hilel Salomon]

Right on Chris,

Unless you already know that this refers to Wipe on Poly, and you don't have access to turning acronyms, a google check would get you "Without Pay" and a dozen other meanings including a slur on Italians ,but nothing to do with polyuerethane. In the non turning world, many teachers are complaining that their students' papers have unintelligible acronyms.

Hilel

[John Beaver]

I'm wondering exactly which WOP everyone here uses.

Is it possible that people are getting the different Wipe-On-Poly's confused.

Minwax makes a Water Based and an Oil Based WOP. In my experience the Water Based is junk. Do others agree ?

[Dennis Ford]

I use Minwax oil based wipe on poly, have not tried any others.

[Richard Kennedy UK]

Hi and thanks for all the help! Having said that John you have set my mind racing as I have no idea if the WOP is water or oil based I am using Woodoc satin. Chris I am sorry I didn't make it clearer I too sometimes wonder what the abbreviations are on this site I think there is a glossary somewhere on this site I came across it a while ago but I am sure someone can point you and me in the right direction! I will try and remember to be clearer!

Thanks for all the pointers I will be giving the piece a first coat tomorrow - sadly I don't live anywhere near 100f temp more like 50 so I think it will be a slower process!

[Nate Davey]

Oil based Wipe On Polyurethane (WOP) :D

[Chris Barnett]

Oh, wipe on poly...now we are getting somewhere :D. Have used wipe on poly with tung oil (WOPWTO ;)) a few times on pens, but have used quite often when refinishing walnut furniture. After preparing surface to 400 grit, applied the finish as thin as I can get it, with a lint free cloth held with bare fingers since the finish melted the gloves I have tried. Every application was made as thin as possible; when wiping on, if I could tell that it was wet, that was enough, and usually used a lamp's reflection to ensure coverage. There were no immediate or long term affects to my fingers, but don't know about the grey matter yet. After 24 hours to dry, used 0000 wool then reapplied the finish, usually over 10 coats and up to 15 and more on occasion. Can be left glossy or cut to a satin finish with light 0000 wool wipedown; Zar is available in semi-gloss and satin, and maybe gloss, not sure. The person who recommended this finish commented that a wet glass would not leave a mark, which is perhaps true for any correctly applied poly. The product I use is Zar, which I have found is more difficult to find than in previous years.

[Prashun Patel]

I like oil-based Wipe on Poly. I usually make my own from BORG full strength (Zinsser or Minwax or Cabots). I thin mine more than most - 50/50. It's really foolproof at this level.

If I'm in a rush, then I start out with multiple coats of shellac, thinned to 1.5#. On the lathe, that doesn't really matter; you can apply with the lathe on low and it'll just wipe on like WOP. Shellac dries super fast. You can do 3-4 coats in an hour or 2, which should get you to a good even sheen. Then you only need a very small # of WOP coats on top of that.

Done this way, you can completely finish a piece in a single day easy.

For those who have probs applying WOP: don't try to put on a thick coat; don't 'paint' or 'lay' it on with a rag. That's the mistake I made when starting. You really are just wetting it with the rag. Done this way, it'll dry quickly and evenly. Trust me, it will build for you; it just takes a few coats.

[Richard Kennedy UK]

OK I have applied 2 coats today could have got three done but got sidetracked varnishing the floor in the house! Thanks again for all the pointers this has been really useful I appreciate all the hints if all goes well I will post a pic of the finished item later in the week.