Handcut Dovetail Slope/Angle

[Mike Wischmann]

What do you guys typically use for your handcut dovetail slope in hardwoods.
Is there any problem with using a 1:6 in hardwoods even though it is traditionally used for softwoods
What about a 14 degree slope or a 1:4

What issues will I run in to if I don't use the standard 1:8 or 1:7 in a hardwood

Mike

[Andrew Gibson]

I'm not sure where this falls in the 1:x range but I have a protractor and generally set my bevel gauge to somewhere between 7* and 10*... usually like the looks of 7*.

I would go with 5* or 6* on some projects but only if the look was very important. Experiment and find what suits your eye and make it your own. extremes in DT angles exist in antiques and maintain their strength,

I am sorry if none of that made any sense; I am most of the way through a long day and a good bottle of cab, so cut me some slack.

[John Lytle]

Always us 14degrees, just what I learned, and it looks good to me. If you have something that looks good, and it holds up to assembly, run with it.John

[Ed Looney]

Mike
I made my own dovetail marking gauge with an 8 degree slope. I have trouble with the hard soft wood angle stuff because normally the sides of a drawer are made from softer less expensive wood. This leaves the dovetail joint with a combination of hard and soft woods. I just settled on an even degree someplace near the middle that looked good to my eye.

Ed

[Mike Henderson]

A 1:8 dovetail is about 7* on each side. I mostly use 7* in hardwoods.

Mike

[Tom McMahon]

When laying out dove tails I use the width of my chisel to set the width of the pins, then set the bevel to meet at one saw width across the stock. The thickness of the stock and width of the chisel determines the angle. If this makes any sense.

[Trevor Walsh]

I like 10 degrees but also change it up depending on the wood thickness, length of dovetails, and tail length. Some combinations look really different, some may look boring almost like a box joint.

[Tony Shea]

For the most part the hardwood vs. softwood in terms of dovetail angles is myth. Granted the theory someone dreamt up may have some merits and seem to make some sense. But actual proof of bold dovetail angles in antiques holding up for 100+ years is enough for me to dismiss these theory's and use what looks good to my eye. Use what looks good to you, within reason, and go with it. I personally like 1:8 in stock around 3/4" and start to increase that angle as the stock thickness decreases. Just appeals to my eye a bit more.

[Mike Henderson]

When laying out dove tails I use the width of my chisel to set the width of the pins, then set the bevel to meet at one saw width across the stock. The thickness of the stock and width of the chisel determines the angle. If this makes any sense.
Very interesting idea. This assumes you start with pins first. Do you choose the width of your chisel based on the thickness of the board?

Mike

[Sean Hughto]

What issues will I run in to if I don't use the standard 1:8 or 1:7 in a hardwood


As I always understood it, the reasons for the differences in the hard and soft woods is twofold:

First, softwoods are more compressible and therefore if the angle were too shallow, the joint might be more likely to pull apart in rough use should the glue fail. But there is tradeoff, bringing us to -

Second, the tips of the tails are short grain and susceptible to shearing off. Physics says that the farther out from the fulcrum, if you will, the greater the leverage. A bigger angle puts the tip of the tail further out and makes the possibility of breakage greater. So with hard woods that will not compress, you have a stronger more durable joint by making a smaller angle/slope.

[Tom McMahon]

Mike, I do tails first I use the chisel to set dividers and then mark the space between the tails. I have two chisels with the sides ground sharp 1/4 and 1/2.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, I do tails first I use the chisel to set dividers and then mark the space between the tails. I have two chisels with the sides ground sharp 1/4 and 1/2.

Okay, thanks. That makes sense. I'm always looking for new ways to lay out dovetails.

Mike

[Ed Looney]

As I always understood it, the reasons for the differences in the hard and soft woods is twofold:

First, softwoods are more compressible and therefore if the angle were too shallow, the joint might be more likely to pull apart in rough use should the glue fail. But there is tradeoff, bringing us to -

Second, the tips of the tails are short grain and susceptible to shearing off. Physics says that the farther out from the fulcrum, if you will, the greater the leverage. A bigger angle puts the tip of the tail further out and makes the possibility of breakage greater. So with hard woods that will not compress, you have a stronger more durable joint by making a smaller angle/slope.

Sean
I agree with the theory if one is using the same species of wood for both sides of the joint, but what happens to that theory when hardwood is used for the drawer front and soft wood is used for the sides? The question then is which angle is appropriate the hard wood angle or the soft wood angle? That is why I settled on using one angle for everything. I split the difference between the two.

Ed

[Sean Hughto]

I suppose the specie of the tail board is what would matter, but that said, my experience is that dovetails are overkill for most applications in woodworking - a very strong and durable joint - that are really tolerant of many slight variations without compromising the strength to any significant degree. In short, most anything in the range we're talking about - soft or hard - is fine.

[Trevor Walsh]

I would tend to agree with the dovetail-joint-angle comments just delivered, I still think there is something special about sticking with tradition, for the intrinsic value of doing it the way it's been done.

(Not advocating for blinding doing it the old way just because.)