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View Full Version : Haven't bought bread in about a month...



John Coloccia
09-10-2011, 7:56 AM
Bread machine is for sale....it makes absolutely horrid bread. We had all but given up on homemade bread until I started making it myself from scratch. Turns out, my handmade bread absolutely blows away the stupid bread machine. It's not that hard (quite easy, in fact) and it's every bit as good as any bread I've ever bought....actually, it seems to be quite a bit better than most bread that's available around here.

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Chuck Wintle
09-10-2011, 8:12 AM
looking at that loaf of bread has made me hungry!!

Jason Roehl
09-10-2011, 8:54 AM
Take it up a notch--grind your own grain for flour.

I don't mind store-bought bread, but I do like the homemade stuff more. There are other foods on which I'm not willing to compromise, though.

John Coloccia
09-10-2011, 8:56 AM
Recipe has evolved to my own taste, but it's as simple as can be:

2 cups warm water (no hotter than 110F)
1/3 cup oil
1/3 cup honey
2 cups wheat flour
enough all purpose flour to form dough (haven't recorded how much but it's probably another 2 or 3 cups or so
1 tablespoon active dry yeast
1 teaspoon salt

Combine water, honey, oil and yeast. Cover with a towel and let proof (it's done when it looks likes the head on a beer...takes maybe 10 or 20 minutes)

Add the salt (don't be tempted to do this before proofing...you will interfere with the yeast)

Start mixing in the whole wheat flour. Then keep mixing and add enough all purpose flour to turn it into a dough. It should be slightly sticky but not gooey. You'll develop a feel for it and it different depending on the day.

Knead....and knead....and knead. Knead for about 15 minutes.

I make a little skin on my dough and roll it into a ball but that's not necessary. Put it in a lightly oiled bowl (by lightly oiled, I mean put a little oil on the bottom of the bowl, grab a paper towel and lightly coat the rest of the bowl). Cover and let rise. This will probably take less than an hour. It's done when it's doubled in size or when you can poke it with your fingers and the indentations DON'T bounce back).

Punch it down (just what it says) and deflate it. Knead it for a little bit more. I usually cut mine into a 2/3-1/3 ratio. I take the 1/3, cut that down further and make dinner rolls. Just make a little ball. You can get fancy like me and squash them a bit to get that classic shape. Take the 2/3 and roll it into a near cylinder, except taper a little at the ends. Put all the formed dough on a baking sheet that has been generously dusted with corn meal.

Cover and let rise...this will take another 40 minutes or so.

At this point, you can toss it right into a 375 (preheated of course) oven, but I like to take a knife and make little cuts to give it that classic look. I also like to give it an eggwash (just beat an egg and paint it on lightly...some say the egg should be warm but I've never had a problem with cold egg). Bake the rolls for 20 minutes....the bread for 25 minutes. Yes, you should check it and not just use the timer, but I've made this quite a few times and it's always been 20 and 25 right on the dot. In practice, I set my timer to 20 minutes, take out the rolls and put them on a cooling rack. After another 5 minutes I put the rolls in a bowl and take the loaf out and onto the cooling rack.

It sounds like a lot of work, but it's really quite simple. If you've never baked bread before, definitely try this recipe. If all you have is all purpose flour, go ahead and use it. It will be just fine with only AP flour, but having 2 cups of whole wheat in there really wakes it up.

Rich Engelhardt
09-10-2011, 9:09 AM
It will be just fine with only AP flour, but having 2 cups of whole wheat in there really wakes it up.
Yep - AP is fine & bread is easy to make.
All it takes is to resist the temptation to rush things.
I'm more partial to Rye than whole wheat though.

As an aside, if you form some of the dough into pretzel shapes, let it stand for ~ 15 min, then boil for a few min, then stick in the oven until brown, you can makse wonderful soft pretzels.

John Coloccia
09-10-2011, 9:16 AM
Yep - AP is fine & bread is easy to make.
All it takes is to resist the temptation to rush things.
I'm more partial to Rye than whole wheat though.

As an aside, if you form some of the dough into pretzel shapes, let it stand for ~ 15 min, then boil for a few min, then stick in the oven until brown, you can makse wonderful soft pretzels.

You know, I just had to toss my whole stash of rye flour. It had gotten very old, left over from the "bread machine" days. I need to pick some up today. Thanks for the reminder :)

Bill Davis
09-10-2011, 9:43 AM
Here's the other view of bread. http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=5501463359508666077#editor/target=post;postID=444837208010653770
Good Book - Wheat Belly by Dr William R. Davis cardiologist

Mike Henderson
09-10-2011, 10:11 AM
Pick up a copy of "The Bread Makers Apprentice (http://www.amazon.com/Bread-Bakers-Apprentice-Mastering-Extraordinary/dp/1580082688/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1315663864&sr=1-1)". This one (http://www.amazon.com/Peter-Reinharts-Whole-Grain-Breads/dp/1580087590/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_4) is also very good.

MIke

Gordon Eyre
09-10-2011, 10:35 AM
I'm with you John, I have been making my own bread for several years now and also grind my own flour. I turn out five loaves at a time and give away a couple of loaves to older folks in the neighborhood. I also make rolls and a special artisan loaf on occasion. The artisan loaf is made in my Le Creuset cast iron pan and has a wonderful crust. I find the whole bread making experience to be rewarding and fun.

David Weaver
09-10-2011, 10:50 AM
I also do pot loaves like gordon is talking about, but not artisan breads.

I do a very simple recipe, though, one that just has flour, water, sugar, salt, yeast and a little extra gluten. But the dough is extra wet and very little yeast (1/4tsp) so that the rise is overnight in a mixing bowl instead of hours or minutes (temperature is not as critical then). Wet dough is very easy to knead (you hardly knead it, I guess), too, and after a half hour to an hour of rest between the rise and the semi-knead, it just goes into preheated dutch ovens.

I call that my "maintenance" bread, it's very plain, but total involvement from the maker is only about 10 minutes for two loaves. It is impossible to mess up and you still get a good dark crust without having to glaze, and the crumb has good structure (it's not overly dense, and it's not puff with no strength, either, like some bread machines seem to make).

My parents have had two different bread machines. They're enamored with each for a little when they got them, but the bread leaves a lot to be desired and eventually they dropped using them.

Dave Lehnert
09-10-2011, 11:14 AM
Living near Amish country we get their bread often. Not sure how it's made but is very heavy. I can eat a whole loaf at one sitting.

Believe it or not, Walmart has good bread from the bakery.

In a hurry, the frozen dough you bake at home is not bad at all. My guess what the Walmart bread is made from.

Ryan Mooney
09-10-2011, 11:33 AM
+1 on both of Mikes suggested books, I found the Reinhart book to explain a bunch of things I had only suspected before.

I've about quit kneading, I found that if you just give the dough enough time to properly hydrate you don't need to knead nearly as much. For a lot of doughs I'll just mix them the night before and stick them in the fridge overnight. Next day give it a few turns and your done (well and let the loaf rise, blah blah :D). Most of the time you're kneading you're really just waiting for the gluten to soak up the moisture (well and re-distributing the yeast.. but thats more important later).

Mostly I use a wet sourdough starter because of this (you can just add a little extra flour and some honey and its good to go because its already fully hydrated). With that I can take ~1.5C of sourdough, a splash of olive oil, a pinch of salt and just enough fresh ground flour to make a loose dough, let it rest while the oven is heating and have 100% whole wheat pita bread in about 30 minutes!

For grinding your own I highly recommend the nutrimill, makes great flour really fast. We bought one quite a few years ago and missed the one caveat - don't grind oily things - like oats! with it. Burned up the motor and we figured it was a write off since we'd had it for at least 3 years... They cross shipped us a new one in three days, no questions asked. Maybe my expectations of service are low, but I was really impressed! Its not really cheaper to grind your own (unless you know a wheat farmer), but you don't have the rancid flour problem. Once you've tasted fresh wheat bread its really hard to go back. The whole berries last just about forever.

Charles Goodnight
09-10-2011, 11:34 AM
Actually, I have a bread maker, and I recommend you not throw it out. It makes hopeless bread, but it makes good dough. What I do when I am making a fancy meal is I use the bread maker to mix and kneed the dough while I am making dinner. Then its a small matter to form it into loaves, let it rise and bake it. It doesn't take much thought to have the bread come out ten minutes before dinner is done, and well, everybody tends to be quite impressed -- except my kids who are inclined to think that fresh bread is a standard for any good meal, and lack of fresh bread is a failing on my part.

Michael Weber
09-10-2011, 12:17 PM
Problem is homemade bread is it's half gone before it cools:)
I baked our bread for many years and must have 20 bread books of so. All kinds of fancy breads but I stayed mostly with a partial whole wheat loaf. At one point I was ordering 25 lb bags of different wheat berries from a place in Montana until shipping became prohibitive. I had a grain grinder for my KitchenAid mixer. I tried all kinds of gimmicks over the years to get "artisan" looking loaves using more whole wheat flour without a lot of success. Just could not get the oven spring I was trying for. Tried all levels of heat, baking stones, spritzing the oven and loaf during baking, adding extra gluten, throwing in ice cubes to create moisture, etc. I did learn that throwing substantial amounts of water into a 500 degree oven is not good for it. :eek: Nor do you stand in front of the oven while doing so! I even bypassed the oven controls and installed a 3 mode industrial process controller to gain better temperature control. Kind of a Frankenoven. Haven't baked any in a while but I have found a 12 grain commercial loaf I like. Last loaf I tried I used the 'wet no knead' method first published by the New York Times several years ago and mentioned by a previous poster. Made beautiful white loaves with a great crisp 'flying' crust and beautiful streatchy open crumb but again with more than a small percentage of whole wheat the oven spring was lacking. Okay, getting nostalgic. Heading for kitchen:D

Paul McGaha
09-10-2011, 2:15 PM
My wife does all our cooking. She's very good. Gets it from her mom.

We have a bread machine we use on occasion. She makes these yeast rolls for the Thanksgiving meal with the bread machine. Best rolls I've ever had. I think we use the bread machine for other things but its pretty rare.

John, you and these food threads. Makes me hungry just thinking about them.

PHM

John Coloccia
09-10-2011, 2:55 PM
John, you and these food threads. Makes me hungry just thinking about them.

PHM

You should have seen the roasted chicken...

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Paul McGaha
09-10-2011, 5:21 PM
Roasted Chicken. We get ours from Costco. Super good and fairly affordable.

PHM

John Coloccia
09-12-2011, 2:39 AM
On a slightly different subject, I'm starting to think that half (if not a most) of the problem of home cooking is cooking shows and cookbooks. if I tried to follow those recipes for anything, I would never cook again. Alton Brown is especially bad. i LOVE Alton Brown for his information, but I would never cook anything if I had to do it his way. Most other celebrity chefs are no better. They just take way too long and are far too complex, turning simple tasks into science projects.. It's boutique cooking at it's worst.

I think there's a real vacuum out there for someone to teach simple, healthy, flavorful cooking like many of us do every day. Pasta is no big deal. Bread is no big deal. Roasts are no big deal. Stocks and broths are not a big deal. There are no weird incantations involved. I made my own mayonnaise yesterday for a tuna salad. Why? Because when the storm came through here I lost power for several days and my mayo went bad...I forgot to buy more. It took my all of 5 minutes with no recipe. One egg yolk, salt, touch of lemon juice and a bit of white wine vinegar in a blender. Drizzle some oil until it's stiff. Child's play, so what's the big fuss?? If you look in a cook book they'll make it seem like you need an advanced degree in culinary arts to pull of such a simple feat. if you watch a cooking show, it will seem like you need to invest 1 hour into your stupid mayonnaise. What nonsense for such a simple thing, and the more complex it gets the worse it is. Shoot, you would think that making bread requires natural talent and a brick oven. LOL.

Rich Engelhardt
09-12-2011, 7:16 AM
+1 to that John!

Both my brother and my sister have a real knack of taking something simple and turning it into a "culinary art". I swear between the two of them they have a collection of cook books that rival the Library of Congress!
Each one of them is more than capable of taking somethig simple and turning it into a disgusting plate of goo. (IMHO & in my wife's HO of course.)
I'm perfectly happy with a salad made of letttuce.
I don't need baby octopus on it, thank you very much.
If you are dead set on putting the octopus on there, make sure the bits and pieces are big enough for me to dig out so I can use them for bait later on. ;)

I'm more the "kill it and grill" it & while you're at it toss on a couple 'taters, type.

Jay Maiers
09-12-2011, 8:16 AM
I'm with you John, I have been making my own bread for several years now and also grind my own flour. I turn out five loaves at a time and give away a couple of loaves to older folks in the neighborhood. I also make rolls and a special artisan loaf on occasion. The artisan loaf is made in my Le Creuset cast iron pan and has a wonderful crust. I find the whole bread making experience to be rewarding and fun.

I've also been grinding for a couple of years, but have given it up lately in favor of buying bread flour and making no-knead loaves in cast iron dutch oven. I really need to try it with some fresh ground wheat.

Do you prefer red or white wheat? My wife doesn't care for the stronger wheat flavors, so I tend to stick with white. Last year we found a local-ish source for whole grains. I've added oats, rye, spelt and kamut(?) to the pantry; now I just need to get busy and start baking.

John, those are some mighty nice looking loaves you've got there. Mine aren't so pretty. I may have to try to dress one up next weekend.

Joe Angrisani
09-12-2011, 8:17 AM
John.... Here's an idea to try with your bread. Follow your recipe and combine the water, honey, oil and yeast. Then cover it and let it sit on the counter for three hours or so. When three hours have passed, put it in the fridge overnight. Anything from 8 to 24 hours is fine, 24 being better. Take it out of the fridge and let it come to room temperture (about an hour), then continue with your recipe.

The waiting REALLY allows flavors to intensify. I think the French or Italians have a name for it that's something like bigi or biga (say beejee or beejhuh or beega). However they say it, it improves any bread.

Kevin W Johnson
09-12-2011, 8:45 AM
My wife uses the bread machine to simply process the dough. After which it is removed from the machine and baked in the oven. Baking it in the oven is the key..... baked in the bread machine is horrid.

Ian Moone
12-07-2015, 10:04 AM
Probably dumb of me to resurrect a 4 year old thread but what the heck - here goes - rather than start another one on basically the same topic.
I stumbled across the book (And online youtube vids) "Wheat Belly" by Dr William R. Davis cardiologist.
I am type 2 diabetic and also obese..

Wife & I are keen to try milling our own flours from non wheat grains and try baking some "non wheat" bread (So, millet, rye, spelt quinoa, chia. amaranth, kamut, tapioca etc) to try and replace "wheat flour" in our diet for a while with alternate flours (gluten free) and see if it is any help with my blood sugar levels and dropping some weight maybe.

Looking to buy an electric mill (Wondermill) and a great bread maker.

We did make bread once for a year with a bread maker when we lived on an island at sea hence no local bakery and the bread wasn't too bad BUT it was made from wheat flour bread mix you buy in a packet at the supermarket & just add water essentially.

Obviously making bread from non wheat flours is going to be a somewhat different I am guessing!

I am aware MANY seem to buy bread makers cheap, be disappointed with the results and throw them out!

Has anyone actually bought a decent bread maker that's controllable / programmable enough to cope with making non wheat flour breads that they would care to recommend?

I am guessing i will probably get either a nutrimill or wondermill to grind my own grain.

Have found a stockist of non wheat grains locally to grind.

When we lived offshore in the sub tropics we always stored our flour in the freezer to prevent it deteriorating before use.

So which bread maker is the dilemma at the moment?

Sean Troy
12-07-2015, 11:32 AM
Recipe has evolved to my own taste, but it's as simple as can be:

2 cups warm water (no hotter than 110F)
1/3 cup oil
1/3 cup honey
2 cups wheat flour
enough all purpose flour to form dough (haven't recorded how much but it's probably another 2 or 3 cups or so
1 tablespoon active dry yeast
1 teaspoon salt

Combine water, honey, oil and yeast. Cover with a towel and let proof (it's done when it looks likes the head on a beer...takes maybe 10 or 20 minutes)

Add the salt (don't be tempted to do this before proofing...you will interfere with the yeast)

Start mixing in the whole wheat flour. Then keep mixing and add enough all purpose flour to turn it into a dough. It should be slightly sticky but not gooey. You'll develop a feel for it and it different depending on the day.

Knead....and knead....and knead. Knead for about 15 minutes.

I make a little skin on my dough and roll it into a ball but that's not necessary. Put it in a lightly oiled bowl (by lightly oiled, I mean put a little oil on the bottom of the bowl, grab a paper towel and lightly coat the rest of the bowl). Cover and let rise. This will probably take less than an hour. It's done when it's doubled in size or when you can poke it with your fingers and the indentations DON'T bounce back).

Punch it down (just what it says) and deflate it. Knead it for a little bit more. I usually cut mine into a 2/3-1/3 ratio. I take the 1/3, cut that down further and make dinner rolls. Just make a little ball. You can get fancy like me and squash them a bit to get that classic shape. Take the 2/3 and roll it into a near cylinder, except taper a little at the ends. Put all the formed dough on a baking sheet that has been generously dusted with corn meal.

Cover and let rise...this will take another 40 minutes or so.

At this point, you can toss it right into a 375 (preheated of course) oven, but I like to take a knife and make little cuts to give it that classic look. I also like to give it an eggwash (just beat an egg and paint it on lightly...some say the egg should be warm but I've never had a problem with cold egg). Bake the rolls for 20 minutes....the bread for 25 minutes. Yes, you should check it and not just use the timer, but I've made this quite a few times and it's always been 20 and 25 right on the dot. In practice, I set my timer to 20 minutes, take out the rolls and put them on a cooling rack. After another 5 minutes I put the rolls in a bowl and take the loaf out and onto the cooling rack.

It sounds like a lot of work, but it's really quite simple. If you've never baked bread before, definitely try this recipe. If all you have is all purpose flour, go ahead and use it. It will be just fine with only AP flour, but having 2 cups of whole wheat in there really wakes it up.
My stomach is actually growling now after reading this. I've been thinking of doing this and now I will go out and get some items to do it.

Steve Peterson
12-07-2015, 12:11 PM
Actually, I have a bread maker, and I recommend you not throw it out. It makes hopeless bread, but it makes good dough.

I agree with this completely. I really don't care for the bread that comes out of the bread maker. It never cooks properly. The bottom is too dry and the crust is too thick. However, the bread maker does a really great job of mixing and letting the bread rise. I use the machine on the dough cycle, then put it in a normal bread pan and cook it in the oven after one final rise cycle.

The bread maker does make good zucchini bread. That is the only thing that cook in the machine.

Steve

Justin Ludwig
12-07-2015, 12:19 PM
Take it up a notch--grind your own grain for flour.

I don't mind store-bought bread, but I do like the homemade stuff more. There are other foods on which I'm not willing to compromise, though.

spent grain from brewing makes great pretzels and crackers

jared herbert
12-07-2015, 2:31 PM
What do you use to grind your flour? I have been looking for a decent grinder, doesn't have to be powered, and preferably low cost. A lot of
the ones I have seen online don't get very good reviews. Any suggestions would be good. Jared

I don't mind store-bought bread, but I do like the homemade stuff more. There are other foods on which I'm not willing to compromise, though.[/QUOTE]

Mike Chance in Iowa
12-07-2015, 6:35 PM
Hi Ian,

Check out the following review on a new bread maker designed for with GF in mind. Be sure to read the comments below the article for more suggestions.
http://www.celiac.com/articles/24145/1/Panasonic-SD-YR2500-Automatic-Gluten-Free-Bread-Maker-Review/Page1.html

Roger Feeley
12-10-2015, 3:06 PM
+1 on David's approach. It's called 'no knead' or refrigerator bread. Kneading is done to form glutens which gives the bread 'chew'. Glutens form naturally if you just leave the dough alone long enough. I let mine rise overnight so the whole process is about 24 hours. But the actual hands-on time is only a few minutes. I bake mine in a blazing hot dutch oven preheated to 450. Covered for a while and then uncover to form the crust.

Mark Blatter
12-12-2015, 5:15 PM
I started baking my own bread about 10 years ago. I had a wheat grinder and mixer and just dove in. My first loaves were bricks and simply tossed them out. I have improved to the point that I make a pretty mean batch of bread. I almost always use my own ground flour from hard white wheat. Living in Montana I was able to buy fresh wheat from Wheat Montana right where it was grown. I make basic whole wheat bread, but have variations for cinnamon rolls, and a 50/50 mix with white flour.

A few years back my mixer died and my kids bought me a new Bosch mixer which is about as good as they get. I don't ever knead my dough as the mixer does it for me.

The best part is knowing exactly what is in the food I eat and being able to control it.

Ian Moone
12-12-2015, 10:22 PM
Yep - it was dumb of me to resurrect a 4 year old thread!

Everyone's answering questions from the 2011 thread!

No one can recommend a decent bread maker. LOL

Sal Kurban
12-14-2015, 4:34 PM
Take it up a notch--grind your own grain for flour.

I don't mind store-bought bread, but I do like the homemade stuff more. There are other foods on which I'm not willing to compromise, though.

I actually grow my own grain, harvest it by hand, made a threshing machine from leaf shredder and have a stone mill to mil the flour ;)

glenn bradley
12-14-2015, 4:42 PM
Bummer on the Bread Machine. Mine is idiot proof and makes great breads with a variety of mixes readily available at the local grocery. Add mix(es), add water, push button, return to fresh baked bread ;-) It doesn't do fancy stuff or make whole grain product (that I prefer) but, it earns its keep. Your home made success story has me eager to give that a try though.