Can't seem to decide on a tail vise.....

[Rick Cicciarelli]

I'm trying to finalize the design of my bench before building. I'm going to do a Roubo style bench, with a leg vise and a sliding vise. I keep changing my mind on the tail vise though. I was originally going to to a wagon vise, but now I am thinking that I don't really think I'll like having that big gaping hole in the front corner of my bench even when the vise is closed. I've read that the conventional tail vise can often have trouble drooping...and it is pricey and a bit more work. There is always the option of just adding on some type of quick release vise on the tail end of the bench with a wooden jaw. All options seem to have pros and cons and I every time I make up my mind, I seem to change it the next day.
Any advice or input on the subject would be appreciated.

[Ron Brese]

Rick I have the BenchCrafted Wagon vise on my bench and I couldn't live without it. The slot in the top of the bench is actually an advantage for holding pieces vertically. It moves so quickly there's no need for quick release and the operation is 1/4 turn of the hand wheel tight and 1/4 turn to loosen. You'll spend less time thinking about work holding and more time actually working the piece. This vise also works exceptionally well when using hand held power tools. Keeping a rigid perimeter on your bench means nothing sags or moves when using hand tools or power tools.

Ron

[Jeff Bartley]

I'll emphatically second everything Ron said! Well worth the money, period. Jeff

[Jim Foster]

I made my Roubo without a wagon vice. I plan on using some LV round benchdogs and the "benchdog clamp?" they sell. I think the wagon vise, be it a Benchcrafted or home-built would be a great addition, but I don't think it's mandatory to get good service from the bench. If I ever build another, I think I'd probably include a wagon vice. (time will tell) The reason, I did not include the wagon vice was dual. 1) I was pushing my limits of skill just getting a good top and legs put together satisfactorily, and 2) I wanted to see how inexpensively I could make my first bench.

I figured from the experience of building it and in using it for several years, I'd learn a lot and maybe make another that has a more advanced set of features that I gleaned from actual usage.

[Chris Fournier]

A tail vise will droop if it's poorly built. A well built tail vise need never droop. I've built three and helped build four others, no droop.

[Rick Cicciarelli]

Where or how does a "poorly built" tail vise start to droop?
As much as I love the Benchcrafted vises, they are a LOT more than I want to spend on an single
component of this particular bench. Perhaps down the road when I actually HAVE a bench to build a nice
bench on. At his point in time, I am going cheap, and I am sure I'll make mistakes. With that...I intend to
keep the vises on the cheap end. I'll cough up the $80 for a tail vise or for a quick release vise to mount
on the end of the bench, but going much more than $100 is out of the planned budget.

[Andrew Joiner]

This guy did some cool stuff with the Veritas wonder pup.

http://woodtalkonline.com/blog/74/entry-899-tail-vise-i-wonder/

It would be a low cost option.

[Andrae Covington]

I'm trying to finalize the design of my bench before building. I'm going to do a Roubo style bench, with a leg vise and a sliding vise. I keep changing my mind on the tail vise though...


I made my Roubo without a wagon vice. I plan on using some LV round benchdogs and the "benchdog clamp?" they sell. I think the wagon vise, be it a Benchcrafted or home-built would be a great addition, but I don't think it's mandatory to get good service from the bench. If I ever build another, I think I'd probably include a wagon vice. (time will tell) The reason, I did not include the wagon vice was dual. 1) I was pushing my limits of skill just getting a good top and legs put together satisfactorily, and 2) I wanted to see how inexpensively I could make my first bench.

I figured from the experience of building it and in using it for several years, I'd learn a lot and maybe make another that has a more advanced set of features that I gleaned from actual usage.

My Roubo is endviseless, with fixed and sliding leg vises. During the design and building process, I also could not decide what type of end vise to buy/build. I elected to wait and see how much I needed one. I'm not saying no one should have an end vise, and if I were to add one, the wagon vise seems to be the best option IMO, but I have found it is quite possible to operate without one. After all, the Roubo workbench illustration does not include an end vise (or a face vise for that matter, just a crochet). The so-called "German" workbench illustration from Roubo shows a leg vise, sliding leg vise, and tail vise installed.


This guy did some cool stuff with the Veritas wonder pup.

http://woodtalkonline.com/blog/74/entry-899-tail-vise-i-wonder/

It would be a low cost option.

Wow, that is a swiss cheese workbench.:D Interesting approach.

[Russell Sansom]

My handmade tail vise ( wood on wood mechanics ) is the focal point of my bench. It's been there for 4 decades. Every 20 years or so I take it apart and renew the ways. I generally use it to drive the moving dog, but over the years I have used the vise jaws hundreds of times for woodworking operations that are hard to do without a clamping vise.
One of the Krenov books talks about his tail vise at some length if you want a little inspiration.

Just vamping on the subject a little, though...I think we all spend some time agonizing over our benches. We can be paralyzed by the permanence of the decision. Really, you just need SOMETHING in that position. I personally wouldn't consider a twin-screw but that's just me. Otherwise, pick one based on what you're comfortable installing. When I made my bench I was very eager to try my hand on large scale, heavy stuff. I found the dovetails in a tail vise intriguing and beautiful. I also love wood on wood machinery in general. And the challenge of building such a thing from scratch --- something that would clamp a piece of typing paper consistently for the ensuing 15 years --- that was a challenge I just couldn't turn down. If that stuff sounds unattractive to you, and there's no reason it shouldn't---you're not me --- then put in a wagon vise. They seem simple to my eye.

I have gotten too much utility out of my tail vise to even consider going viseless and there's no turning back for me now. But there is a certain beauty of a no-vise bench.

[Jerome Hanby]

Nyquist built a pretty cool tail vise. It's described in several of the workbench books. It has beefed up supports that allow it to clamp like a normal tail vise along the front edge and like a face vise from the end. I think that the additional support that allows both of those operations would also take care of any "sagging" problems.

[David Keller NC]

At his point in time, I am going cheap, and I am sure I'll make mistakes. With that...I intend to
keep the vises on the cheap end. I'll cough up the $80 for a tail vise or for a quick release vise to mount
on the end of the bench, but going much more than $100 is out of the planned budget.

The cheapest option is - wait for it - no tail vise. For handplaning, you can very easily do all the work against a bench stop, and even though my current bench is equipped with a traditional tail vise, I almost never use it for board prep. Where it comes in is clamping things where guide rods below the vise would get in the way. For me, that situation is almost exclusively when making chairs and when carving. If I didn't make chairs or carve, I doubt I would install one on a new bench.

Given that, though, the answer to your situation (low cost, uncertainty about what style you'd like) is to install an iron quick-release vise like the Jorgensen design. The advantage to this is that you can always change your mind after it's installed and remove it and put in a traditional tail vise or a wagon vise, because the only mounting you'll need for the iron quick-release is the bolt holes on the bottom of the bench to hold the guid rod bracket. Potentially, you could change your mind and switch to a traditional tail vise from a wagon vise, but it'd be pretty difficult to go from a traditional tail vise to any other, as you've already cut away the necessary supporting wood.

I would, however, urge you to budge just a little on your budget. The asian Record clones aren't good, in my opinion. Not only is the fit and finish suspect, the Record design for the quick-release is suspect. It's a lever, and the vises I've had that are based on this design seem to wear to the point where the quick release activates when you put force on the piece being clamped. A far superior design is the Jorgensen eccentric cam - it really isn't possible to release the vise from force applied on the workpiece. And a Jorgensen can be had for $35 more than your budget.

And you can sell it instantly for 80% of what you paid for it if you cahnge your mind.

[Terry Beadle]

What ever you do, don't go cheap on the tail vice. Get a good one from LN or Bench Crafted. The wagon vice is a good option too.

My tail vice was a bit of challenge to get proper use out of. It took many hours of work and mounting design to get decent. I have made a few jigs, wedges, and have finally gotten to where it's a definite benefit. That struggle would have been so much shorter with a LN versus the cheap knock off I got on sale. ( $45 ) You get what you pay for ( most of the time ).

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

The other nice thing about an iron vise is with the speed and style of installation, if you end up building the top of your bench first, you can install the iron vise, throw the thing on sawhorses and if your top is substantial enough, you have functioning vise and work surface to help build the rest of your bench on, Chris Schwarz used this approach in building his cherry slab-top Roubo in one of the workbench books. I suppose you could do this with other vise setups, but this gets you up and running quite quickly.

[Jim Foster]

The Wonder Pup from LV is what I was referring to as a "Benchdog Clamp" in my earlier post. I don't have it yet, but it looks like a great accessory to add if you forgo an end vise.

Also, another issue that made me hesitant to do any extra work like the wagon vise or a tail vise was the lack of any type of bench to build my bench on, and the space limitation I ran into while building the bench. Even though my shop is around 22'x22', it was unbelievably cramped while making the bench.


This guy did some cool stuff with the Veritas wonder pup.

http://woodtalkonline.com/blog/74/entry-899-tail-vise-i-wonder/

It would be a low cost option.

[Frank Drew]

A well built tail vise need never droop.

What Chris said; my tail vise never drooped in twenty five years of daily use.

A wagon vise is pretty slick looking, but I think you have more workholding options with a traditional tail vise.

[Andrew Joiner]

Here's more low cost option's. A tail vise from a veneer press screw.

http://carlswoodworking.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/tail06.jpg
(http://carlswoodworking.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/tail06.jpg)

http://www.workbenchdesign.net/bench1.html (http://www.workbenchdesign.net/bench1.html) shows Tom Casper's handscrew tail vise.


Google search for "clamp as an end vise" to see one by Dan at another woodworking forum.

[Thom Porterfield]

This topic is highly interesting to me. I inherited to very sturdy bench screws, but they're both RH thread--making a wagon vice using one of them would mean that to tighten the vice I'd have to turn the handle the "wrong way". I will likely use them for the front vice on my new bench.

Are veneer press screws LH thread? And aren't they, as a rule, less than beefy? (i.e. smaller than 1" diameter)

I like the idea of the wagon vice because, other than its handle, it doesn't protrude from the end of the bench.

[Jeff Wittrock]

I have a wagon vise that I retrofitted to my bench using a cheap screw I already had on hand. Even with it's deficiencies, (deficiencies that I built in, not with wagon vises in general), I use it so much, I wouldn't dream of making another bench without one now. Granted, I have never had a tail vise, so cannot make a comparison.

The one thing I don't like about the one I have now is along the lines of what Thom said. The screw is right hand, so I end up turning the wrong way when I'm not thinking.

-Jeff