Beware of book arriving in the mail

[Ken Garlock]

Today when I picked up the mail, I found a flat box that looked like a book shipping container. I hadn't ordered any books except from Amazon and they don't use this type packaging.

When I got back to the house and opened the package, it was the first volume of a set of woodworking books from Woodworker's Journal. If I wanted the book, all I had to do is to send them $9. If I didn't want the book, I could return it using the enclosed return shipping label. I had not ordered this book, or even knew of its existence.

As I recall, anything sent to you or me, without requesting it, is ours to keep. At least it used to be that way. I pondered that for a about 5 seconds, and repackaged the book and put the return label. I will go out tomorrow.

Look for the subscription prices to go up to cover the losses on this advertising campaign.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I have seen reports of this on other forums. I have also read that you do NOT have to send back the book. I have done this once, with a hunting book, it was sent to me, with out my asking. It was more hassle than the book was worth! I ended up having to contact the state Attourny General to have them explain to the book company that THEY sent it to me, I do not have an obligation to send it back or pay.

Long story short, you could keep it, but Woodworkers Journal will keep hounding you and it's not worth it ;)

[Aaron Heck]

If it came by US mail and you didn't request it, my understanding is that it's yours to keep without sending it back

[Norman Hitt]

I used to be the "Nice Guy" and sent this kind of stuff back, but I finally decided that Two could play this game. I then started just keeping whatever was sent to me, and anytime some envelope came from them, I just trashed it without even opening it. This usually went on for a while, and then stopped. After a few of these incidents, from different places, Someone must have finally put me on the "Not A Gullible Pidgeon" List, because I haven't received anything like it for over 2 years now. Guess My system worked.

My attitude is that IF I want something, I will order it, but if Anyone wants to send me something I haven't requested, I just got a Gift. I'm just not into playing their "Sucker" Games.

[Todd Davidson]

Woodsmith/Oxmoor House did the same thing to me - 4 times w/ 4 different titles! For free they're not bad books :) .

[Jim Johnson]

I too got one of these and the letter stated that I was not obligated to return it so I didn't. Gave it to my son instead.

[Dave Sharbaugh]

I also received one. The carefully worded letter does state something to the effect that you "need not return the book because you did not order it."

Dave


Today when I picked up the mail, I found a flat box that looked like a book shipping container. I hadn't ordered any books except from Amazon and they don't use this type packaging.

When I got back to the house and opened the package, it was the first volume of a set of woodworking books from Woodworker's Journal. If I wanted the book, all I had to do is to send them $9. If I didn't want the book, I could return it using the enclosed return shipping label. I had not ordered this book, or even knew of its existence.

As I recall, anything sent to you or me, without requesting it, is ours to keep. At least it used to be that way. I pondered that for a about 5 seconds, and repackaged the book and put the return label. I will go out tomorrow.

Look for the subscription prices to go up to cover the losses on this advertising campaign.

[Boyd Gathwright]

Hi Ken,


.... If you look further down the letter it states that: “There is no cost to you (not even postage) and no questions asked. Because you didn't ask for this special book, you don't have to participate or send it back and you could consider it a free gift.”


.... Well guess what guys? It was a FREE GIFT. Before I opened it, since I hadn't ordered it and it was addressed to me and there were no mistakes about it's intent, I am not about to be held captive by anyone either on the phone or through the mail or any other media. Not to mention that this kind of harassment steals your time and interrupts your day. Enough said.

.... Good luck to you all on your choice.

Boyd
.

Today when I picked up the mail, I found a flat box that looked like a book shipping container. I hadn't ordered any books except from Amazon and they don't use this type packaging.

When I got back to the house and opened the package, it was the first volume of a set of woodworking books from Woodworker's Journal. If I wanted the book, all I had to do is to send them $9. If I didn't want the book, I could return it using the enclosed return shipping label. I had not ordered this book, or even knew of its existence.

As I recall, anything sent to you or me, without requesting it, is ours to keep. At least it used to be that way. I pondered that for a about 5 seconds, and repackaged the book and put the return label. I will go out tomorrow.

Look for the subscription prices to go up to cover the losses on this advertising campaign.

[brent lenthall]

From my memory of contract law class; your silence or inaction can Not constitute consent. Just like Chemlawn can't come spray your lawn and send you an invoice and expect you to pay.

[Jeff Pilcher]

Book? What book? I never got any book. ;)

I'll certainly keep a free book. But, Chemlawn had better stay off my lawn.


The reality is ... after the dog gets through with her business on the lawn no one wants to go in there. :(

[David Fried]

I got a book from them and didn't remember ordering it. Figured I was just getting senile and almost paid for it. Couldn't find any record of having ordered it so I didn't pay for it. Currently, I'm recycling all correspondence from them. Nice to know it's not just me.

[Dave Richards]

Thanks for the warning. I'll be looking for my "free gift" any day now.

A few years ago Reader's Digest sent me some books I didn't order. Being aware of the US postal regulations concerning this, I figured I'd keep it. Then I started getting harrassed by requests to pay. Eventually it escalated to letters from a collection agency and finally a law firm. I suspect these are actually made up by RD.

The letter from the law office was the final straw. I sent RD a letter indicating that I didn't appreciate their tactics and that I would consider any mail or phone calls from them or their agents harrassment and would take legal action against them. I also made them aware that I would send copies of the letter to my state's attorney general and to the BBB. Never a word--not even another advertisement.

I suspect you sometimes have to muscle these people back since they are hoping you'll cave in. I can't imagine they'd find it worth it to take actual legal action.

These days, however, I expect I'd send the book back since I rarely see anything new in them, I don't have enough libray space, I gas fireplace and the paper's no good in the two-holer. :D

[Christopher Pine]

While I agree with you alls comments.. it is your book to keep. It was not really worth keeping in my estimation.. I peeled the sticker put it on the box resealed all of the contents they sent with it; thebook, the junk mail, the envelope off the front of the box.. If I had any other junk mail from other companies I would have enclosed that. Put it by the mailbox in front of house and it went away. I share your frustrations with unsolicited mailings like this but it is hardly worth the investment of time playing games with them..
unless you enjoy that kind of thing :)
chris

[Jim Robinson]

Dave Ramsey (gives great financial advice on the radio) has a great suggestion for all that unsolicited mail from credit card companies.
Stuff as much junk mail (nothing with your address on it) as you can into their postage paid envelope and drop it into the mailbox. They'll have to pay the postage for you to send them junk mail.

Personally, I think you should attach their postage paid envelope to a brick and drop the postage paid brick in the mail. No telling what this will cost them in postage. :p :) :D

[Michael Stafford]

Yes, I received this book and I was very displeased that I did. I was quite resentful that I had to take the time to package the book back up and return it. I included a note voicing my displeasure. I know that I could have kept the book but other "offers" are sure to follow. Bad idea FWW...

[Lee Schierer]

While I agree with you alls comments.. it is your book to keep. It was not really worth keeping in my estimation.. I peeled the sticker put it on the box resealed all of the contents they sent with it; thebook, the junk mail, the envelope off the front of the box.. If I had any other junk mail from other companies I would have enclosed that. Put it by the mailbox in front of house and it went away. I share your frustrations with unsolicited mailings like this but it is hardly worth the investment of time playing games with them..
unless you enjoy that kind of thing :)
chris
I agree with Chris. Find about 20 pounds of wood scrap and put it in a box with their label on it and set it out for the postman. Bet you won't get another book from them.

When I get unsolicited advertisements from companies, I stuff everything in their post paid return address envelope and stick it in the mail box. If they elected not to pay the postage, stick it in their envelope anyway and drop it in the corner mail box, it gets sent postage due..... :D

[Steven Wilson]

I threw it in the trash and canceled my subscription to their magazine.

[Dennis McDonaugh]

I'm kinda hurt I didn't get a book from them......

[Darren Ford]

I agree with you Dennis. Hey guys, send those books back so the rest of us can have a chance at them!! :)

[John Shuk]

Yes, I received this book and I was very displeased that I did. I was quite resentful that I had to take the time to package the book back up and return it. I included a note voicing my displeasure. I know that I could have kept the book but other "offers" are sure to follow. Bad idea FWW...
It was not sent be FWW. It was from Woodworkers Journal.

[Jack Hogoboom]

Believe it or not, my cat ate most of the return label and now I can't send it back, although I wanted to. :eek:

Not too cool for WJ to do that. Pretty boneheaded in fact. Sure to alienate their subscribers.

Jack

[John Scarpa]

I received the book as well and sent it back as it didn't add anything to the books that I already have. Plus they made sending it back very easy.

However, I was a bit iritated that I was sent something that I hadn't ordered. Strategically it makes no sense to irritate your subscriber base. I won't make a decision to cancel solely on this incident.

[David Dixson]

Sounds like the subscriptions I'm getting to magazines I've never read before here lately. Road & Track (I have little interest in cars, except for pickup trucks to haul stuff.) and Outdoor Life (Because of bad knees, I seldom hunt any more and haven't read that magazine since I was a kid.) have both been sent to me. I just tossed the magazines, thinking either someone bought them for me or they were sent by mistake.

I was quite amused when I received a "renewal notice" for the Road & Track one recently. I couldn't quite figure out how I could renew something I never subscribed to in the first place.

Dave

[Mark Stutz]

Got my book, too! My take on this is just a little different. The book itself is not too bad, though I wouldn't pay for it. The cover letter actually acknowledges that you are under no obligation to pay for it or return it. In order to got the additional books in the series, though, you must pay for it. They "encourage" you to send it back if you don't want it so they "can send the offer to another woodworker"! Really doesn't bother me one way or the other.

[Stefan Antwarg]

I have to say that I don't understand the extreme anger that some of you are feeling. I guess if you went to the trouble to repackage the book and have it delivered, that could be annoying. And I guess if you keep the book, you are going to keep getting mail from them. But like someone already said, just throw it away. Being upset about being sent something that you never ordered is beyond me - especially since it is clear you don't have to do anything.

Stefan

[Larry D. Wagner]

I recieved the book and am keeping it as a free gift. I really think most of you are being a little thin skinned about a very trivial thing. You got a free book that in my opinion is not that bad. What's the big deal? RELAX!

Larry :) :) :)

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

I got mine yesterday, and tho most of the ideas in it aren't new, I'll keep it as a gift with no obligation, as the letter clearly says. I have no reason to expect they'll send me any more junk mail in the future because I kept it than they do now.

I'm in the camp that thinks cancelling the mag subscription over this deal is a bit 'over the top'. :rolleyes:

KC

[Steven Wilson]

I have to say that I don't understand the extreme anger that some of you are feeling. I guess if you went to the trouble to repackage the book and have it delivered, that could be annoying. And I guess if you keep the book, you are going to keep getting mail from them. But like someone already said, just throw it away. Being upset about being sent something that you never ordered is beyond me - especially since it is clear you don't have to do anything.

My father died a couple of years ago and a publisher sent him a book to my address - sight unseen just like this instance. I threw it in the trash. A few months later I received threatening phone calls at home and at work and the publisher filed suit (absolutely nuts). I ended up having to retain a lawyer and filed a counter suit. I ended up having to trash a years worth of vacation on this crap eventhough I eventually won and recovered a reasonable amount of cash for my efforts. I will never do business with Woodworkers Journal and am writing their advertisers to tell them to drop them if they want my business.

[Stefan Antwarg]

Steven,

Your situation seems unusual to me. I doubt that anyone in the situation that the original poster posted about will have to go through that. That is specifically what my response in based on; this situation with woodworker's journal.

With your situation, you just threw it away without opening it, so you don't know what it said inside.

Sounds like we are talking about 2 different things here.
Stefan

[Donnie Raines]

I watched a crew of 'black toppers" show up at my office one day(we are in a small strip wall). I was not aware that we were getting the drivway re-paved....the landlord never notified us of it. I walked out and ask the guys if they had the right lot and they said "yup". I tried to get in touch with the landlord and had no luck. So I watched these guys black top our parking lot.

Turns out...the owner never requested the lot to be topped. The crew simply worked on the wrong parking lot. So....it's my understanding...that our landlord never paid for it. There was no contract for the purchase...thus no consideration for the services provided.

Not on the same level as this book deal....but the same idea.... :rolleyes: :cool:

[Steven Wilson]

With your situation, you just threw it away without opening it, so you don't know what it said inside. Sounds like we are talking about 2 different things here.

Actually it was the exact same situation. In the case of my father a small publisher sent him a book (about 6 months after he died and the estate was closed and out of probate) and wanted $49.95, they said if you don't want it send it back but we're sure you'll want it. It was a bunch of pseudo investment advice. They didn't include any return mailing information (labels, etc), I guess they expected me to pay the return postage. Off to the trash it went. Then the harassment started. Needless to say they were trying to scam the estate out of money believing I wouldn't fight; big mistake, I fought, I won, the judge who allowed their suit to go forward is no longer a judge, my lawyer and I were well compensated for the waste of our time.

I find this kind of marketing disgusting, uncalled for, and fraudulent. I will not do business with them or their advertisers and am in the process of letting them know that. If they want me to leave their advertisers alone then they (Woodworkers Journal) will stop this kind of marketing and then apologize to their subscibers. Then, if they keep clean for another 5 years I might, just might, resubscribe.

[Ed Breen]

I guess that I have become an old hand at this, but with a different twist. My 40 year old son has Down's syndrome, but he has a deep thirst for music and is forever ordering music from Time-life and other sources. His penmanship leaves a lot to be desired, (about first grade level) but they just send the stuff to him. One time Pennys gave him a credit card. By the time I find out he has used the products. SoTo make a long story short, they start with the letters and my response to them is he has been adjudicated as a minor and thus cannot contract for anything. You would think that they would have some way to ear mark his file, but they keep on sending and he keeps on ordering and I keep on corresponding.
Its a barrel of monkeys.:p
Ed

[Ellen Benkin]

I read this thread this morning and thought "where's my copy"? Well, it arrived in today's mail. It's a nice looking binding and I'm glad they thought enough to send me this present. I have no intention of paying for it or returning it. If enough of us ignore them they'll stop sending stuff. I'm very grateful for the legislators that passed the law saying that I have no responsibility for stuff I don't order.

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Actually it was the exact same situation. In the case of my father a small publisher sent him a book (about 6 months after he died and the estate was closed and out of probate) and wanted $49.95, they said if you don't want it send it back but we're sure you'll want it. It was a bunch of pseudo investment advice. They didn't include any return mailing information (labels, etc), I guess they expected me to pay the return postage. Off to the trash it went. Then the harassment started. Needless to say they were trying to scam the estate out of money believing I wouldn't fight; big mistake, I fought, I won, the judge who allowed their suit to go forward is no longer a judge, my lawyer and I were well compensated for the waste of our time.

I find this kind of marketing disgusting, uncalled for, and fraudulent. I will not do business with them or their advertisers and am in the process of letting them know that. If they want me to leave their advertisers alone then they (Woodworkers Journal) will stop this kind of marketing and then apologize to their subscibers. Then, if they keep clean for another 5 years I might, just might, resubscribe.

Well, actually, it's not anywhere near the exact same situation. These folks provide the return postage stamp, and very plainly state in their letter that you're free to keep it as a gift if you don't want to send it back. Period. No room for questions.

I can't see what they have to apologize for at this point...they've sent out 10,000 free books in the hopes of selling some in the future. It's quite similar to the grocery USPS junk mail, except they're marketing to a select group. Do you refuse to shop at Kroger/WinnDixie/Target/Walmart/Revco/Walgreens, etc. etc simply because they clutter up your mailbox?

KC

[Roger Barga]

I expect that most of us have experienced or at least heard of a company that has used the ploy of sending an unwanted item and then harassing recipient to pay. But so far, WWJ simply sent out a free book and clearly stated it ours to keep if we don't wish to pay for it or return it. As KC (Kirk Constable) pointed out, they are just marketing a product and until they send an invoice or nasty letter, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt (and will donate the book to our local High School woodshop). Of course if they do send a nasty gram, I'm sure SMCers will join together and tell them where to put it ;-)

Cheers,
Roger

[Dave Moran]

Yes, I received this book and I was very displeased that I did. I was quite resentful that I had to take the time to package the book back up and return it. I included a note voicing my displeasure. I know that I could have kept the book but other "offers" are sure to follow. Bad idea FWW...I live a distance from the Post Office and the book was too large for the mail box so I sent an email to them, their reply and my email below.

Dear Mr. Moran,

I'm sorry you're upset. Please note that the letter that came with the
book specifically says "Because you didn't ask for this special book,
you don't have to participate or send it back and you could consider it
a free gift."

Larry Stoiaken



>>> David Moran <> - 2/9/05 5:52 PM >>>
Rob,
I am addressing this to you as I do not have an email address for Larry
Stoiaken, I have used the same format in hopes that he gets this as
well. I have today received a book totally unsolicited in an effort to
make me feel obligated to pay or return. I will not be returning this
book unless I am given $30.00 cash for my time and $5.00 cash for fuel
and a carton suitable for return. Woodworkers Journal may save postage
on renewal requests for my subscription as I will not be doing business
with your company in the future. I hope whatever marketing genius you
hired for this attempt at a guilt trip will no longer be used to
alienate your customers.

Regards,
Dave

[Steven Wilson]

These folks provide the return postage stamp, and very plainly state in their letter that you're free to keep it as a gift if you don't want to send it back. Period. No room for questions.

I can't see what they have to apologize for at this point...they've sent out 10,000 free books in the hopes of selling some in the future. It's quite similar to the grocery USPS junk mail, except they're marketing to a select group. Do you refuse to shop at Kroger/WinnDixie/Target/Walmart/Revco/Walgreens, etc. etc simply because they clutter up your mailbox?

KC

I checked the letter in the package and the only "free gift" mentioned is the medallion included in it. NO mention of the booking being free; they demand it back or pay for it. Junk mail's fine, just don't send product expecting payment.

[Jerry Clark]

Be aware that this is only the first of a set of books-- and like Time has done in the past-- first one is cheap-- then the price goes up-- the next books will probably $24 with handling and shipping. I sent a nasty email to cust-serv and said they will not get the book back and any future contact with me will be considered harassment! Do not send me anymore junk mail!

[Dennis McDonaugh]

You need to calm down. There's no need for name calling.

[Ken Salisbury]

http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/misc/redflag.jpg

Folks,

I have had to edit 7 replies in this thread and delete 1 because of the use of profanity, politcal statements & personal attacks. These types of responses are not the image we want to display here and are violations of our Terms ofService (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/terms.php)


This horse has been beaten to death and I have CLOSED THE THREAD TO FURTHER POSTING


http://www.oldrebelworkshop.com/misc/moderator.gif