Steel Info

[Mike Olson]

I have seen many threads about what steel to use for different things but i was hoping to find someone that had put together something a little more all inclusive. Many things i read say to use tool steel because you can buy it in small quantities but another site said 1095 steel is pretty much the standard for good knifes. I can buy a 16' piece of 1095 steel for $33 ($2.75 per LF) or an 01 at 18 inches for $8.25 ($5.5 per LF) not that i need that much but wow, that's a huge difference in price per LF.

I'm planning on going to a local steel supplier and having him cut up some steel so i can get it home, if i end up with some extra that's fine with me.

Three things i'm looking to build soon.
Spoon carving Hook knife. From what I found i'm looking for "high carbon :confused:" 3/32 thick, 1/2" wide.
Custom wooden profile planes. I'm planning on using the same 1/2" wide stock from the Spoon carving knife.
3 - Native American style Adze blades, Straight, Shallow curve, Deep Curve. This one I'm a little confused by because i haven't found any resources that say the thickness to use. I was thinking 3/16" or 1/4" x 2" wide x 6" long. Plus I read it can be difficult to harden thick steel with just a hand torch.


Can I use 1095 for all of this? From what limited information i was able to find, this is the best for knifes but i'm not sure about the plane or adze.

Any additional information or reassurance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

[Jonathan McCullough]

My understanding is that 1095 and O-1 are virtually the same thing. A book I have about smithing wood working tools advises using 1095 or O-1 for plane blades, mortise chisels, specialized carving gouges etc. I'd just check to make sure it isn't W-1. If it is you quench it in water, or a brine (google Super Quench recipe). All old saws and many old chisels are actually made from W-1. A lot of my old Butcher and Buck Brothers iron is so hard it's blue and sharp as obsidian. Really good stuff. I suspect it's W-1.

[Simon Frez-Albrecht]

If I remember correctly from my knife-geek days, O1 is a little more forgiving in heat treat. By which I mean that if you mess up, and have to re-anneal and then re-attempt heat treat, it will react more favorably. This is based on what I've read, not first hand experience.

Outside of that, almost any tool-grade steel that you choose will be more than adequate, and in many cases the differences will be indistinguishable.

[george wilson]

W1 and 01 are not the same thing. 01 is alloyed to make it an oil hardening steel,while W1 is the simplest water hardening steel. Google them to see their makeup.

W1 will take the sharpest edge of any of the tool steels,but will not hold it as long as more sophisticated steels. It's all a trade off. 01 is a good all round steel,and less liable to crack or warp when quenched in oil,because it isn't cooled as quickly by the oil.

In any of these steels,take a flat nosed punch,and stomp any holes in the parts tightly full of FINE steel wool. It keeps holes from developing because of the holes.

The original Indian hooked knives were made from W1 because that is about all they had at the time. Old Butcher plane irons,and other old irons are W1. They can be extremely hard,but hardness is not the whole story. There is also wear resistance,which is W1's weak area. 01 will be better in wear resistance,and A2 better yet,but 01 and A2 will not take quite as sharp an edge as W1. Take your pick.

[Larry Williams]

1095 is very close to W-1. Actually, it's a very good steel depending on how it's heat treated. Quench it in a brine mix. O-1 is close to W-1 in performance and either are fine. Properly heat treating A-2 is a problem unless you've got a staged atmosphere controlled furnace. Before Lie-Nielsen switched to A-2 their irons were 1095 and those irons are some of the best modern plane irons I've used. Now Lie-Nielsen is offering O-1 for their more discriminating customers but most of their stuff is A-2 which I think falls far short of their O-1 or 1095 irons.

[David Weaver]

With the right abrasives, LN's A2 irons will do everything that the HCS irons will and the carbides give them scads of wear resistance. They will lack a little if you use a 20 degree relief angle on a common pitch bevel down plane, but with a 15 degree relief angle, some of the best irons I've ever seen are LN's A2s - they are my favorites of all of the A2s out there so far. I have used their W1 irons, and while they make a good final pass iron, they lack the wear resistance of the A2s. I'll give you that based on the used planes I've bought, few people really need the durability of A2, though.

As far as O1s, steve knights were the best I've seen in the affordable range. They took a great edge off of anything, and are hard without being chippy.

If I am in the OPs shoes, as an amateur, I get O1 every time because it is not difficult to get good results for chisels and plane irons when you're heating by eye and tempering in a standard oven.

[george wilson]

01 is a very good choice for those with limited means of heat treating. Back in the 60's and early 70's I used it a lot. All I had was a propane,later MAPP gas torch ,or 2 later,and enough oil for a quench. 01 will not decarb like A2,or the more sophisticated steels will.

I still don't have a controlled atmosphere furnace,but do have a nice Paragon electric furnace 22" deep,that's supposed to do 2300º,though I haven't gone that high! I wrap A2 or D2 in high temp. stainless foil,and put in a little piece of brown paper smaller than a postage stamp. This is to burn up what little oxygen is left in the envelope,which should be fitted as snug as possible. Be careful to NOT put in too much paper,or it will burst the envelope,and ruin your steel.

I use a pre heated toaster oven that has an accurate high temp. thermometer with a long thermocouple on its back. Get it from Brownell's Gunsmithing supplies. NEVER trust the thermometer on ANY kitchen type oven. They can be up to 75º off,and you need to be within 25º of the correct temperature to get the best results from your steel. As soon as the metal is just cool enough to BARELY handle(about 130º) it should at once be put into the preheated toaster oven. This is called austempering,and is essential in very expensive dies to get the most life from the dies. I do it also. The punches and dies I have made dozens of for our home jewelry business are all A2,and have stood tens of thousands of cycles before they have needed re grinding their faces to re sharpen them. We are using die sets that I made in the 80's,oftentimes.

Overall,if you have limited means,I recommend using 1 type of steel,like 01,and just learn how it behaves when tempering. You can learn to use it quite well from using the same steel,and just relying on the tempering colors of that particular steel. You can make anything you need from 01 from a very hard blade to a spring.

[James Owen]

Not a metallurgist by any means, but from what I remember reading, many (most?) modern high-quality axes, hatchets, (swords), and adzes are made from 1095. It seems to have good sharpenability and edge retention, as well as shock resistance and "toughness" (although "toughness" is probably at least as much a function of heat treatment as steel composition). It seems like it would be a good candidate, and would certainly be worth investigating further to determine whether you want to use it for your adzes.

FWIW, the adzes I have (Pfeil) are approximately 3/16" thick (small bowl adze), and a hair under 1/4" thick (medium-sized straight and curved carving adzes), and, of course, all tapering toward the business end.

[george wilson]

01 is better to use in the home shop by the learner,because W1 is the most treacherous steel there is to warp,crack,and crack through holes that are in the tool you are making. 01 has more carbon than 1095,and a few other metals that make it behave better in quenching(oil is a slower quench than water),and hold an edge longer than 1095. It will get plenty sharp,too.

[Brian Deakin]

I have acquired several M3 hacksaw blades 16 inches long and 3 inches wide Can any one comment if these would be suitable for making making knife blades or anything else wood related

regards Brian