Fuel Additive for Chain Saws

[John Messinger]

For several years I have had some problems with my chainsaws. I have trouble starting them, keeping them running, lack of power, etc., etc.. I had done some web serfing and found some folks complaining about the ethanol added to fuel as being a source of the problem. Chain saw users seem to complain more often about this than most other 2 cycle engin users. About 4-5 months ago, on a whim, I bought some "Star brite STAR*TRON Enzyme Fuel Treatment". I finally had a chance to use it this weekend. I used it in my Jonsered, and my EFCO chain saws. The Jonsered is a small, light model (2150 Turbo) and the EFCO is a much larger model I use in the Alaskan Mk III mill. Both started more easily, and stayed running at idle. The gas/oil/enzyme additive mixture is no longer blue (50:1 gas:oil) but rather an amber color, darker than straight gas. I cannot speak for whether it adds/detracts from the longevity of the engine, but it certainly makes life easier with less effort and safer for me, particularly when using the big EFCO in the mill. I have not used it in the Stihl which is a good chain saw, but significantly heavier than the Jonsered without any added power.

Does anyone have any experience with this stuff or any other fuel additive in their 2 cycle engines?

BTW: I am a loyal listener of the CARTALK guys and their frequent musings on "Miracle Stuff in Bottle" additives.

[Greg Cuetara]

John I will say that Star Tron is a regular additive in my tractor and boat engines as the ethanol is killing them. You may also want to look at using the blue stab-bil. It is a much better formula for the ethanol, than the red kind. I typically try to use both in the gas and have had less problems since I started using them. We all need a miracle in a bottle right now with the ethanol in the gas. I heard they are trying to go from 10% up to 20% and that will probably just about kill all 2 cycle engines....I do know some people who buy their gas from the airport for running chainsaws and smaller 2-cycle engines they have at the house. For the amount of fuel they use it is worth the premium they pay at the airport for 'real' gas with no ethanol.

[Matt Meiser]

I've always (well for the 11 years I've been a homeowner) used the red Stabil in the gas that goes into my cans and generator. Supposedly the Stihl 2 cycle oil has it so I haven't been using it there. I've also been using Seafoam the last couple years. But my chain saw, power washer, etc I drain as much gas as I can by dumping or siphoning and then run them until they stall, then try to restart a few times as recommended by the Stihl dealer. On the other hand, my generator stays gassed up ready to go and it always starts on 1 to 2 pulls.* Same with our Kawasaki Mule utility vehicle except that's electric start.

This past spring I had a lot of trouble getting my Echo blower to start--a spark plug change cleared that right up.

* 1 to 2 pulls after I remember to turn on the "on/off" switch!

[Craig McCormick]

I have been using some sort of fuel stabilizer in all our small engines and it has made all of them more reliable. I left gas in my Husqvarna chain saw for two years with fuel stabilizer. It started right up and ran fine, but boy did the old gas stink!!!

AZCRAIG

[Cyrus Brewster 7]

+1 on Star Tron. You can also use the blue Stabil. The red stuff, although better than nothing, cannot protect small engine parts (hoses, gaskets, etc.) from the damages of the current gasoline which contains higher amounts of ethanol. Its main purpose is prolonging gas life, not protection from ethanol.

One thing to note on small engines (chain saws, weed whackers): when not in regular use you should empty the tank and run it dry. Many manufacturers will now void the warranty if old gas is used or if gas is stored for too long in the tank. Yes, they can find out.

[William Burgess]

I use the red Stabil, but I also use ethanol free gas, there are quite a few gas stations around my house that advertise ethanol free gas. In fact I would recommend not to use E10 in any small engines, those carb's can clog up really quickly.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I use the red Stabil, but I also use ethanol free gas, there are quite a few gas stations around my house that advertise ethanol free gas. In fact I would recommend not to use E10 in any small engines, those carb's can clog up really quickly.

Pardon me. And I'm being inquistive not adversarial, just try to learn, but what does E10 have to do with clogging a carb?

[Anthony Whitesell]

For how long have you had the problem with the poor idle on the saws?

[William Burgess]

Pardon me. And I'm being inquistive not adversarial, just try to learn, but what does E10 have to do with clogging a carb?

Anthony,
From what I understand, the ethanol in E10 if left to sit too long in a small engine can clog up the carburetor causing engine problems. Which is why people recommend the Star Tron to prevent that sort of damage.

William

[Dave Lehnert]

Dealers are starting to recommend using a pre mix of gas and oil.

http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/spin_prod_257947001?hei=400&wid=400&op_sharpen=1&qlt=90,0&resMode=sharp&op_usm=0.9,0.5,0,0

Sears, Lowes, Stihl dealers O'rileys auto parts sells a mix. Runs $4.99 to $8.99 (dealer) a qt.

I know people like Stihl equipment but that is the only brand I have fuel problems with. I use the same gas oil mix in all my equipment. Echo Ryobi, Homelite. Only have problems with my Stihl. Stihl is the only brand equipment I ever have to take to the shop.

[Matt Meiser]

$20-$32 a gallon--makes pump prices seem like a bargain :rolleyes:

[Julian Tracy]

At prices like those, no wonder dealer's are recommending those products!

JT

[john davey]

I just had my generator services as the carb was shot. They told me that the ethenol in gas was the culprit and I needed to use an additive and start the generator once a month to avoid this problem. She said if I didn't I would need to drain the tank but if I did both of those things the gas could stay in the tank for a year or more.... I/ll try it since new carbs are expensive :(.

[Matt Meiser]

The $4.99 can of premixed fuel at O'Reily (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/TSO0/00009.oap?ck=Search_N2385_-1_-1&pt=N2385&ppt=C1941) is 12oz by the way. Also, the stuff in the Sears link is 40:1 while the O'Reily stuff is 50:1 which is what Stihl and Echo use IIRC.

Dave, I never had to take my Homelite blower to the shop--it only lasted 20 minutes before the blower wheel shed it's vanes so I returned it and bought the Echo. :) I've shied away since. Though I did buy an electric pole saw that seems decent.

[Anthony Whitesell]

What baffles me, is why I don't have a single problem; before or after the change to ethanol. I do use stabil in the equipment that is less used (generator, weed trimmer, rototiller) and to winterize the summer equipment (lawn tractor, log splitter). The chainsaw gets emptied and run dry due to the gas-gas-oil mix I use (racing fuel and racing oil mix at 16:1 cut with regular unleaded to achieve 20:1 mix, the oil will settled out and is very hard to shake up fuel in a chainsaw tank). I also buy gas 10 gallons at a time and have it on hand for months. I just refilled the cans that I've had since March.

[Jim Laumann]

I wonder if "lousy" gas is a regional issue? I've been treating all of my gas can fuel w/ red stabil for years - both 2 and 4 stroke. I can't say that I've had issues - some of my engines sit for months at a time. My 4 strokes get plain unleaded, the two strokes I've been trying to feed premium, or better yet, unleaded premium (something my local small engine service center recommended).

Jim

[phil harold]

most small engines do run better on non ethanol gas

cant you just buy non ethanol gas at the pump?

here it is 2 octane points lower and about 10¢ more per gallon

my major cure for most of my small engines is to soak the carb in seafoam and then blow all the holes clear with compressed air

[Stephen Cherry]

I just had to buy a new blower and weedwacker as my other were in OK shape but clogged up and the price of new carbs is not that cheap to justify on older machines.

My plan is to use the machines with pump gas, pour out the unused gas, run the machines out, then add a little of the store bought non-ethanol premix and store with that.

What a scam and a half. I've read that the energy needed to produce the corn is a good portion of the energy that you get from the ethanol, but at least the farmers got what they wanted.

[Sean Kinn]

The advice I got from a long term dealer in my area was as follows:
1. Use the premium gas at the pump, as it often has more stabilizers in it from the start since it typically sells much slower than the 87 octane cheap stuff.
2. For Stihl tools, use the premium synthetic mix they sell. Stihl even doubles the warranty on their new machines if you purchase a six-pack of the mix at the time of purchase....that says somethign right there.
3. Only mix up a gallon (or even a half gallon) of fuel at a time.
4. Discard mixed fuel/oil or plain gas after three months. There is no reason to use old gas in your power tools. Therefore, additive is not necessary. I personally dump straight gas in my wifes car. Any left over oil/gas goes into my old Cub Cadet riding mower at no stronger than a 1 to 4 ratio of mix/gas to gas.
5. Drain machine if it will sit longer than one month, or sooner if it will not be used heavily and with fresh gas after the month

[Steve Baumgartner]

The advice I got from a long term dealer in my area was as follows:
1. Use the premium gas at the pump, as it often has more stabilizers in it from the start since it typically sells much slower than the 87 octane cheap stuff.
2. For Stihl tools, use the premium synthetic mix they sell. Stihl even doubles the warranty on their new machines if you purchase a six-pack of the mix at the time of purchase....that says somethign right there.
3. Only mix up a gallon (or even a half gallon) of fuel at a time.
4. Discard mixed fuel/oil or plain gas after three months. There is no reason to use old gas in your power tools. Therefore, additive is not necessary. I personally dump straight gas in my wifes car. Any left over oil/gas goes into my old Cub Cadet riding mower at no stronger than a 1 to 4 ratio of mix/gas to gas.
5. Drain machine if it will sit longer than one month, or sooner if it will not be used heavily and with fresh gas after the month

+1 on what Sean says. Both MA where I live and ME where I summer require 10% ethanol - no way to get gas without it. It has been destroying 2-stroke outboard motors and chainsaws around here ever since! There are a number of problems. Unless the rubber parts in the fuel system were made with ethanol resistant plastics, it softens them and the goo ends up in the carb, clogging it. It will dissolve resin out of fiberglass (used in many older built-in boat gas tanks), **really** clogging carbs and filters. It absorbs water, which causes the gas to go sour sooner. So, all the mechanics around here say:
1. Always use one of the enzyme additives (not the old stabilizers, which aren't adequate for ethanol)
2. Always run the motor dry if you won't be using it again within a week
3. Check and replace any rubber/plastic hoses, seals, etc that appear to be deteriorating
4. Don't buy more gas than you will burn up in a month

[ian maybury]

My experience with alcohol (actually methanol) has been mostly in running racing motorcycles. As best I can remember (don't treat this as fact) it's 'different' in a few ways (presuming that ethanol and methanol have fairly similar characteristics), many of which have been touched on already:

1. The air/fuel ratio giving optimum combustion is richer (needs more fuel) than for petrol. On bikes running 100% methanol carburettor jet sizes need to be quite a lot larger. (to flow about 150% as much fuel) MPG is significantly lower. The effect isn't quite so marked with ethanol, but the effect of adding it for engines set up for petrol is likely to be to very significantly 'lean' out the mixture.

2. It delivers best combustion at higher compression ratios than does petrol.

3. It's quite a bit harder to vapourise at low temperatures, and consequently is likely to make cold starting more difficult - and make carburettors more prone to freezing in cool and humid conditions unless heaters are used.

4. It attacks many varieties of paint, rubber and plastics not damaged by petrol that were commonly used in older vehicles.

5. It absorbs water from the air, and becomes harder to vapourise as a result.

6. It's not compatible with all types of oil, especially when mixed with the fuel as in two stroke engines.

It's actually got a lot of positive characteristics - it tolerates very high compression ratios without knocking/detonation, it burns cleanly, it runs cooler, it's combustion efficiency is much less influenced by variation of the air/fuel mixture away from the optimum than petrol, and it probably produces less by way of acids etc to contaminate lubricating oils - and most engines deliver better power and torque on it at lower rpms than on petrol.

My sense is that issues arise mostly out of two factors: (1) because an engine is not optimised for the specific fuel in question - or for alcohols at all, and (2) because a given engine may encounter differing petrol/alcohol blends in use.

There's an obvious risk of damage caused by the solvent effect of the alcohol in engines not originally designed to use it, and air/fuel settings cannot be optimum if varied alcohol and petrol mixtures are used.

Water absorbtion by fuel in tanks is another issue - basically because it changes the combustion characteristics of the fuel, and causes starting problems.

ian

[Anthony Whitesell]

Blowing out the carb and running it dry is the greatest cure for preventing untreated fuel from varnishing or gelling in the bowl and carb. I have always treated the fuel and topped off tank (with the aforementioned exception of my chainsaw). The less air left in the tank leaves less room for condensation to form and thus less chance of water in the fuel.

I'm going to have to go out on a limb and guess that my tools are too old to care about ethanol in the fuel; '74 Simplicity tractor, '65 Gravely tractor, '82 McCulloch chainsaw, '80 Troy built tiller, '98 weed trimmer, and '99 Craftsman lawn mower.

[Dave Lehnert]

The $4.99 can of premixed fuel at O'Reily (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/TSO0/00009.oap?ck=Search_N2385_-1_-1&pt=N2385&ppt=C1941) is 12oz by the way. Also, the stuff in the Sears link is 40:1 while the O'Reily stuff is 50:1 which is what Stihl and Echo use IIRC.

Dave, I never had to take my Homelite blower to the shop--it only lasted 20 minutes before the blower wheel shed it's vanes so I returned it and bought the Echo. :) I've shied away since. Though I did buy an electric pole saw that seems decent.

That 12oz on the O'Reily site is wrong, It is 32 oz. I looked at it in store.
Can't find it on Sears site but they do stock 50 to 1 mix in the stores.

I'v used the Stihl 6 pack oil since day one. Mix with gas, Use the saw, dump all gas and run dry. Still in the shop twice before I use my 4th bottle of oil.

[Ron Jones near Indy]

Stihl does recommend that you use the mid-grade of gasoline. Supposedly makes the engine run cooler.

[Gary Kman]

First let me say that I have less brand loyalty than a dog has for fire hydrants. I have a small Stihl commercial saw, a 80cc Echo felling saw and a cheap Echo weed eater. They are all about 8 year old. The saws will run a few tanks of gas maybe 4 times a year and the weed eater every couple of weeks all summer. I use Stihl oil and whatever regular gas (containing ethanol I'm sure) they are selling. I keep it until I use it up and mix a fresh batch. None have had fuel problems. All start easily. Stihl claims there is stabilizer in the oil so that's all I use. Eight years, no special treatment, no problems. If ethanol is such a culprit, you would think it would have nailed me by now, wouldn't you?

On the other hand. Four strokes, ran hard, left with gas in the carburetor. Residual engine heat plus only a couple weeks time ruins the gas in the carb and it absolutely will not fire. Drain the carb and refill with the same gas (but from the fuel tank) and it fires right off. Five kw generator I always run dry, 4 wheeler, 900 Kawasaki, mowers get red Stabil over winter. Even running dry can fail. Got to use a log splitter if I could get it running. Finally did - spider nest in the main jet.

[Matt Meiser]

That 12oz on the O'Reily site is wrong, It is 32 oz. I looked at it in store.

Yep. I actually went ahead and bought a can last night while there buying LOML a new battery for her car (guess I've got her birthday gift is taken care of :eek:.) Since I probably only go through 1-1/2 gallons a season, probably 1/2 - 2/3 of that doing spring cleanup it probably makes sense so I'm going to give it a try. And without the Ethanol, in a sealed container, it probably has a long shelf life until opened. Now I don't have to keep mixed gas on hand all winter just in case I need to use the chain saw after an ice storm.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Why would the shelf life of gasoline in a sealed container change based on buying in a can from the BORG or buying it from the pump?

Out of more curiosity, I wonder how they are getting around the 10% ethanol mandate?

[Matt Meiser]

Not sure as it specifically says it doesn't contain ethanol. Based on discussion above I'd think that right there would give it a longer shelf life. Plus it has the oil and stabilizers in it. And I'd think like canned food, it would be vacuum sealed, but maybe that's a bad assumption.

[Anthony Whitesell]

For those that believe the ethanol is a problem, then this stuff would circumvent it...for now. The biggest thing that I noticed about it (I've seen it on the shelf for about a year now) is that it is in a metal can, not plastic.

As I keep pump fuel for months on end unmixed and untreated in a metal gas can, mixed and treated in plastic cans, or unmixed and treated in the tank for storage of the equipment.

[Dave Lehnert]

Yep. I actually went ahead and bought a can last night while there buying LOML a new battery for her car (guess I've got her birthday gift is taken care of :eek:.) Since I probably only go through 1-1/2 gallons a season, probably 1/2 - 2/3 of that doing spring cleanup it probably makes sense so I'm going to give it a try. And without the Ethanol, in a sealed container, it probably has a long shelf life until opened. Now I don't have to keep mixed gas on hand all winter just in case I need to use the chain saw after an ice storm.

Matt, Had a chance to fire up my Stihl today using the O'Reily mix. After a minute or so I did notice it was running much stronger on the stuff. Ran like a champ.
At first I said no way would I use that liquid gold but like you, My saw use is very limited to yard cleanup so it is not bad. I trimmed a few trees today and used less than 1/2 a can.

[Matt Meiser]

Stihl stuff is $7.99/qt at my dealer. Which means its probably $7.99 at every Stihl dealer.

Dealer recommended not using it in my new backpack blower since they aren't the most fuel-efficient tool but for the chainsaw and occasional trimming--great since it has a longer shelf life.

[Bob Luttman]

Just bougth a Stihl weed whip and the stihl oil has Stabil in it.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Hmmm....interesting...

[Dave Lehnert]

Stihl stuff is $7.99/qt at my dealer. Which means its probably $7.99 at every Stihl dealer.

Dealer recommended not using it in my new backpack blower since they aren't the most fuel-efficient tool but for the chainsaw and occasional trimming--great since it has a longer shelf life.


My dealer told me $8.99. Let me know how it works for you. Will start using the mix from the dealer. My dealer installed a new jet. said it was the gas causing problems. My chainsaw is the newest equipment I own and guess things have changed with new equipment (EPA standards) They have smaller jets than before. Guess a reason to use the better fuel mix. The MS180 is a great little saw for around the home.
Interesting info about the blower using more gas than a chainsaw. Think it would be the other way around. What model blower do you have? Next lawn tool on my list.

[Matt Meiser]

I might have remembered wrong.

I just bought the new BR430 yesterday. I had been looking at a BR550, but the specs on the 430 are so close at a $40+ savings that my dealer says he's going to stop stocking the 550 when he sells his last one. I'd planned to wait for spring since my biggest use is putting all the gravel back in the driveway after winter, but my dealer had their open house yesterday and even Stihl was discounted (unadvertised 1-day deal) so I saved another $25.

I know the gas tank on the blower is a LOT bigger than the one on a typical chainsaw at 57oz. And he gave me a full tank of gas--I joked with him about the huge freebie!

If you do buy Stihl again, remember to buy a 6-pack of the synthetic oil mix at the same time. They double the warranty for only about $13 extra.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Wow, $7.99 a qt. $32 bucks a gallon. Probably be even more here.

I just asked my Stihl dealer (because of this thread) about the difference between the synthetic and regular 2 cycle oil. Naturally the sythetic is better, but he did say that if you start, you have to always use the synthetic. Don't know if that is true, but it could be. Just though I'd pass on that info. I could just imagine, running out of synth mix gas, and borrowing gas from your friend that has regular oil. Although, I can't figure out what difference it could possibly make if you used synthetic and went back to regular. SO I picked up a 6 pack of the regular oil.

[Jim Stewart]

I have used chainsaws for years. My small engines remain trouble free. The carburetors are simple and tiny. If ethanol is a problem it is that it can dissolve rubber and therefore affect the carb. I use only Sthil High Performance mix for two-cycles. That is a synthetic mix and is 50:1 ratio. I am careful not to let gas stay in a machine for very long (6 months). I leave any small-engine tank dry when storing it for long periods. That for me is mostly the Winter months. I use chains saws mostly in October, November, and then March thru May. I never use any additives on any small engine. If you insist on leaving gas in a two-cycle you can buy at $8.00 per quart gas that does not have ethanol in it. This is available at Sthil dealers. It will not evaporate like ethanol and therefore can be left for long periods without harm. Hope this helps. It is a pain to drain but it works for my mower, tiller, chainsaws,and weedeaters.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I don't know how true that is. But I would be scared, worried, and worse to mix synthetic and regular. That just sounds like a recipe for disaster. I can imagine what a mess this would make with the oil injected engines.

My oil and fuel mix wanders all over and has for the life of my saw (a McColluch ProMac 610). I alternate between regular 2-cycle oil with standard 87 octane fuel and hi-performance (used in 100cc 2-cycle kart racing engines) 2-cycle oil with 110 octane mixed with 87 octane fuel. The competition fuel gets reduced from 16:1 to 20:1 by adding 87 octane unleaded.

[craig zacarelli]

I have been useing the Star Tron or Sea Foam for two years now and not one problem.I do drain and run dry at the end of the season but I have two blowers and 4 weed wackers and sometimes one or more will sit unused for a couple months and will fire right up and run great. both chain saws, my push mower and ride on get it too. One other thing is, leaving old gas in the machines will also deteriorate the rubber gas lines causing a leak. So, use an additive, drain and run dry before storing and try not to let your gas sitt too long, even witht he additives in it. Oh yeah, pour some in your car once in awhile to help keep it clean as well.

[Larry Edgerton]

Wow, $7.99 a qt. $32 bucks a gallon. Probably be even more here.

I just asked my Stihl dealer (because of this thread) about the difference between the synthetic and regular 2 cycle oil. Naturally the sythetic is better, but he did say that if you start, you have to always use the synthetic. Don't know if that is true, but it could be. Just though I'd pass on that info. I could just imagine, running out of synth mix gas, and borrowing gas from your friend that has regular oil. Although, I can't figure out what difference it could possibly make if you used synthetic and went back to regular. SO I picked up a 6 pack of the regular oil.

When I raced motorcycles back in the 70's that was true. At that time I ran Golden Spectro synthetic. If you switched you would get clots that could lean you out and burn a piston, but to the best of my knowledge that is no longer a problem with modern formulas.

I routinely break in a new machine on dino oil and switch to Amsoil when it is fully broken in. I have not had a problem, and I run pure synthetic in everything I have.

Bailey's has cases of premixed gas at a nice discount if you are using a little more than just yard cleanup. Still expensive.

I am going to buy a new Husky 357XP in the next week or so as I ran my old Husky over with the tractor [arrr..] and although I have read that the new saws are fine with corn fuel, I will ask the dealer.

Larry

[Ronald Blue]

We have been using gas with 10% ethanol added here for 30 plus years and apparently weren't told of the problems is was causing us. This is in the heart of the cornbelt. I have used pump gas in my mowers, chain saw, weed eaters, and atv's with no side effects for years and have made it a point to buy gasahol for them. Seems like most companies have engineered their engines to run on pump gas. For those who it is relatively new to your geographic area you very well may experience some issues in the beginning because it will act like a solvent and cut varnishes and build up away and it will go into your carburetors. If one chooses we do still have the option to buy gas here that doesn't have ethanol in it. Usually at a 10 cent per gallon higher cost and lower octane rating.

[Henry Ambrose]

I also buy gas 10 gallons at a time and have it on hand for months. I just refilled the cans that I've had since March.

Do some searching on gasoline and its keeping qualities, particularly gas with ethanol. Like this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25936782/ns/business-consumer_news/t/mechanics-see-ethanol-damaging-small-engines/#.TngVa0-Hoiw

For the most trouble free use, buy smaller quantities of gas without ethanol, keep it in metal cans at a constant temperature and add a little Stabil when the gas is fresh. I try to not use any gas in my 2 strokes that is more than 6 weeks old. I never put ethanol blended gas in them.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Not buying an ethanol blend in the northeast is almost an impossibility. There's actually none available within 50 miles of me based on references posted. If the ethanol blend fuel is in a metal can and stored at a constant temperature, the effect of having the ethanol in the fuel is minimal. Without temperature changes and being in a metal can, the ethanol will not be able to absorb any more moisture from the air than what was in the air in the can. Due to the metal can and constant temprature, new moisture containing air can not be introduced into the can.

I have done the research and I watch threads and feeds like this to learn what may or may not be happening. But what I see posted and what I (and my father sees) empircally don't match. I do what's been working for me. When you can put 200k on a car in 7 years, keep a 45 year old tractor, or a 20 year old chainsaw running without any issues (through the introduction of MTBE and then the conversion to ethanol), how am I to believe what people are paid to print (referring to news articles not this forum). Do I think there a few issues caused by ethanol? Yes. Ethanol is a solvent. Introducing ethanol into a previously poorly maintained machine that has a lot of gunk or build up may break something free and may very well clog a jet in the carb. But once system is cleaned or if the machine is well maintained, I see no reason (both from what I have read and what my father and I have experienced) why ethanol should continue to cause problems. I have maintained my gas-powered machinery to the best of ability/knowledge. I have made none of the allowances as proported (like changing fuel lines) and I have not incurred any repairs related to ethanol and all the machines start on the first attempt.

I think the moral of the story is to do what works for you. If you maintain your equipment and store the fuel and equipment properly, your problems will be minimized if not gone completely.

[Henry Ambrose]

You're making a lot of assumptions that may not be correct, and if you've done the research, why come here and ask questions? Ethanol does indeed cause problems and the more ethanol in the gas the worse it gets. Gas with ethanol will absorb moisture and it will dissolve some rubber and plastic parts in small motors. Leave one of your tools half full over the winter and see what happens.
Good luck with it.

[Ronald Blue]

This is a never ending debate clearly. I can safely say we have more experience here in the midwest then anyone else using ethanol. Did it cause issues in the early years. Sure it did, some from floats and materials not being compatible, and some from it cutting deposits lose and releasing into the systems. But as new replaced old the problems went away. Are there exceptions to everything...of course, their always are. But if you look on Stihl's website they state you can use a 10% blend in any of their products but if it's going to sit for more then 30 days drain it. As I recall that has always been the recommendation on small engines, or add Stabil. I have no doubt I can go grab my chainsaw(a 23 year old McCulloch) and fire it up in 3-4 pulls and it has set for a year. My string trimmer always sits all winter with gas in it, and works flawlessly in the spring. It is 8 years old. As Anthony said do what works for you. If you desire to spend 32 dollars per gallon for gas have at it. I will do what has worked for me for years as will everyone I am sure.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I'm not sure if you are referring to me or someone else. I don't recall any assumptions and I'm not asking any questions.

I leave all of my tools completely full every winter (or summer). Always have. But I also use the red stabil. The only tool I have problems with is the chainsaw. That's because the "hi-test" oil tends to settle out of the gas-oil mix. It dissolves well enough to mix to be used but over time settles. It is very diffficult to shake up the fuel in the small tank on a chainsaw, so I drain that one and run it dry.

[Anthony Whitesell]

I realized the easiest way to complete some landscaping (lawn grading) would be to dig out and fire up the rototiller (a 1980 Troy Pony with the usual 5HP Briggs). I hadn't used it since I put it away the spring the year before last (spring 2009). I will note two items. First, the carb was left choked and secondly the gas cap had a plastic bag tie-wrapped over it. Knowing the carb would be bone-dry and being crunched for time I decided to try something. I pulled the air filter unchoked the carb and used an old medicine dropper to add some fuel from the tank directly to the top of the carb. I then replaced the filter, re-choked it, and pulled. It fired! First pull! It almost died after a few seconds (I presume when the fuel in the carb ran out) but it ran long enough to get the fuel from the tank into the carb and picked up kept running.