Jet 1442 Lathe Replacement Motor?

[Russell Neyman]

Night before last the damn thing just quit without warning. No rattle, no heat, no bogging down or even a slow start. It isn't that old, and has always performed perfectly. I was turning a bowl, shut it down to take a progress check, and when I switched it back on -- nothing.

This a Jet 1442VSK (14" diameter, 42" width, 1 1/2 horsepower variable speed) and I checked everything I could in the shop. Yes I have power, no none of the wires came loose between the wall and the motor itself, and both of the starter capacitors seem to check out. The only thing I can think is something inside came loose or broke. I will take it to the local electric motor supplier/repair shop next week, but I'm expecting them to tell me it will cost a ton. While I wait for them to diagnose the problem I'd like to know what a replacement Jet unit will cost to help with the negotiation. Problem is, I can't for the life of me find a 1442 motor anywhere in the internet.

Anyone have any ideas where I can find one? Any ideas what went wrong with my old one? What would you guys do?


I should add, I'm going crazy being unable to throw a bowl this weekend! Help!

[Dennis Ford]

It may be the centrifugal starting switch inside the motor. It would be worth the trouble to take it apart and clean the contacts of that switch. Often they get jammed up with dust or the contacts get fouled enough they won't conduct current.

[Bill Bolen]

I went through the same problem you described a few years ago with mine. After doing all the testing Jet customer service asked for they said the motor was bad and had me take the entire headstock to a local machinest who did this sort of repair for them. When I picked it up a few days later it turned out the motor was ok. Turned out dust had gotten into the on/off switch. It has quit twice on me since then with the same symptoms. All I do to fix it anymore is to put the shop vac nozzle over the switch and suck for a few seconds. Turn it on and go again. I sure hope this is all you need to do also.

[Russell Neyman]

Bill and Dennis, thanks for taking the time to offer advice. Since I posted this (12:15 am last night) I went out and disassembled the starter end of the motor and, yes, there is wear on the centrifugal starting switch (Funny how much these contacts are similar to the old style points on the cars I grew up with!) and they were slightly mis-aligned, as well. I cleaned them, filed off the "burned" area, and reassembled it. Nothing still. I'm thinking the contact points themselves are fried. What does that unit do? Does it cut out the capacitor one the motor has fired up?

And Bill-- I have power at the motor, so I know this isn't just the primary switch. Hmmm... I wonder if this could have something to do with the ground side. Gotta go back the the shop and tinker some more. Can't let go of this!

Postscript: I share all these gory details of my battle not only to seek advice and input, but also in hopes that somebody else can avoid a few steps in the problem-solving process down the road.

[Bill Luce]

I don't really have much to add, except that with OW's a common problem is the kill switch on the lower belt cover fails and the lathe won't go. That is easy to check by simply crossing the switch.

Based on forum posts, a failed controller is much more common than a failed motor....Keep us apprised.

[James Combs]

If you have not given the motor to the shop yet I would check the motor coils for continuity and for resistance to ground. The following assumes that the power is off and both line leads are disconnected from the motor. Continuity of individual coils should be very low, close to zero on most VOM resistance scales, probably on the order of single digit ohms on the lowest resistance scale. Resistance to ground (the motor's steel case) should not even move the VOM needle on the highest resistance scale. It might deflect for a second or so but should stabilize at very high resistance especially if the capacitors are still in the circuit. If you disconnect the caps there should be no deflection of the needle at all. If either of these readings are the opposite of that stated above the motor is hosed. You will either have to get a new one or get this one rewound. (new is probably cheaper for a motor this size) Here is a link that shows wire/terminal identification so that you can isolate individual coils. http://www.industrial-electronics.com/AC-DC-motors/37_Terminal-Identification.html


...Based on forum posts, a failed controller is much more common than a failed motor....Keep us apprised.

Ditto What Bill said.

[George Morris]

I had a motor on mine burn out,ordered a new motor from Jet. They where very helpful! Good luck ! G

[Russell Neyman]

I don't really have much to add, except that with OW's a common problem is the kill switch on the lower belt cover fails and the lathe won't go. That is easy to check by simply crossing the switch.

Based on forum posts, a failed controller is much more common than a failed motor....Keep us apprised.

Kill switch? Does the 1442 have one?

[Ed Morgano]

Russell,
Jet has that motor priced at 385.00 on their site. You have to first know the part number (JWL1642-116) and you can search for that. Here is the link to the actual page: https://parts.maam.waltermeier.com/Parts.aspx?part=JWL1642-116. I would definately check your ground. Also, is there a reset for the VSD? Sounds like it probably kicked out when you turned off the machine. I just read that in another post the other day. Good luck.

[Damon Stathatos]

I have a brand new Jet lathe motor that I can't use but need to get to my shop to get specifics for you.

[Russell Neyman]

Ed, mine is a 1442, 1 HP, Variable speed. The 1642 motor mounts differently, so it won't work. But I used your link and located my unit. I'm still very hopeful that this is just a fried starting capacitor or something simple. I wonder-- if I have to swap it, is there a 1 1/2 HP unit that would fit as an upgrade.

Damion, I will look for a PM from you about the details of the motor you have. It could be the best thing to do is to just buy yours and forget this one.

[Russell Neyman]

Still looking for suggestions that will get my machine turning again.

[Dennis Ford]

Russell; do you get any hum or twitch at all when you flip the switch? There is usually at least a little drama when a motor goes bad (sparks, smoke or noise). If there is no sound or movement at all, you probably have an open circuit (this could be inside the motor). If it hums any, then it is probably a capacitor or centrifugal starting switch. The switch energizes the capacitor and the start winding until the motor gets up to speed.

[Russell Neyman]

Russell; do you get any hum or twitch at all when you flip the switch? There is usually at least a little drama when a motor goes bad (sparks, smoke or noise). If there is no sound or movement at all, you probably have an open circuit (this could be inside the motor). If it hums any, then it is probably a capacitor or centrifugal starting switch. The switch energizes the capacitor and the start winding until the motor gets up to speed.

Nuttin, nada, nothing at all. No hum, no bump, no crackle at any time. It didn't even hesitate before it quit. Just wouldn't start that last time I flipped the switch. I've taken it apart and put it back together twice with no results. It's as quiet as a rock.

[Dennis Ford]

Well you definitely have an open circuit somewhere, you might rig up what I call a pigtail and hook the motor directly to a cord that could be plugged in to an outlet. That would at least verify that the problem is (or is not) actually the motor, I would hate for you to buy a motor only to find out the problem is not the motor. THE PIGTAIL IS FOR TESTING ONLY.

[Damon Stathatos]

Russell - I can't attach these photos to a PM so thought that I'd just post it.

Any guess as to whether or not this one would work?

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[Russell Neyman]

Well you definitely have an open circuit somewhere, you might rig up what I call a pigtail and hook the motor directly to a cord that could be plugged in to an outlet. That would at least verify that the problem is (or is not) actually the motor, I would hate for you to buy a motor only to find out the problem is not the motor. THE PIGTAIL IS FOR TESTING ONLY.

Did that. Not a squeak.

[Dick Strauss]

Damon,
The motor you are looking at is 3 phase. You will need to buy a VFD to run it but will also have a variable speed system you can adjust by turning a knob (electric speed control).

Your lathe uses a single phase motor from the factory with a reeves drive (mechanical speed control).

Unplug your lathe...check your switch (both sides should either be open (have near infinite resistance) or have near zero resistance). Dust often gets in there and prevents contact. If the switch is good, check to see you have near zero resistance on all plug-to-switch connections. Open up the switch to motor connections box and disconnect and reconnect all wire bundles as instructed by the motor cover plate. Check to make sure no bare wires are touching anything metal other than the connector and other wires. If you had the pigtail connected properly, you have ruled out the switch and cord issues mentioned above.

If it is the motor cap, you can often get the motor to run (when plugged in) by spinning the motor by hand and hittting the switch. If you try this, make sure your hands are nowhere near the fan or any other dangerous parts...!

Anything beyond this may mean you need a new motor.

[Russell Neyman]

Damon,
The motor you are looking at is 3 phase. You will need to buy a VFD to run it but will also have a variable speed system you can adjust by turning a knob (electric speed control).

Your lathe uses a single phase motor from the factory with a reeves drive (mechanical speed control).

Unplug your lathe...check your switch (both sides should either be open (have near infinite resistance) or have near zero resistance). Dust often gets in there and prevents contact. If the switch is good, check to see you have near zero resistance on all plug-to-switch connections. Open up the switch to motor connections box and disconnect and reconnect all wire bundles as instructed by the motor cover plate. Check to make sure no bare wires are touching anything metal other than the connector and other wires. If you had the pigtail connected properly, you have ruled out the switch and cord issues mentioned above.

If it is the motor cap, you can often get the motor to run (when plugged in) by spinning the motor by hand and hittting the switch. If you try this, make sure your hands are nowhere near the fan or any other dangerous parts...!

Anything beyond this may mean you need a new motor.

Thanks Dick. Yeah, many thanks to Damion but that's 220/240 and I don't want to run that. Besides, it looks like the mounting system is completely different.

As far as the various troubleshoots you suggested, I've done all of that. It is absolutely not in the switch, and I get nothing when I spin it in the on position. As I have said two or three times previously, I would normally think the motor was fried except there was/is no sign at all of heat or shorting. I'm headed over to Red's Electric in about an hour, and will let you guys know what I found out.

Walter Meier/Jet has a new one listed for $359. I might be able to use a discount certificate and order it through Rockler for less, too. If it's fried and Red's can't fix it, I'll go that route.

[Russell Neyman]

Problem solved today, but it isn't without a bit of drama, and several of the above posters deserve kudos. I took the motor to Red's (whom I highly recommend to anyone in the Western Puget Sound area) and before I could get back home, they called to say the motor was fixed. "The centrifugal governor was dirty and out of adjustment" they guy at the desk said. I trust these guys, but that didn't make sense, because I personally cleaned out the entire internal switching system, and I was positive it was clean and the connections were good. I shrugged, paid the bill, and went back to my shop.

Got home, reconnected and remounted the motor and I was all ready for things to return to normal, and....NOTHING... AGAIN.

OK, I thought, Red's guys eliminated problems within the motor, so it's gotta be somewhere back in the switch, which is the first thing I checked and one of the things the Sawmill Creek guys said was the likely cause. Now, I used one of those circuit checkers that lights up when you touch it to a wire, so I thought it checked out earlier, but....

To make a long story short, the switch was clogged up with a fine dust and was corroded, too, despite two fairly hefty seals that Jet engineered into it. Blowing it out with air and vacuuming it didn't work. I took it apart, cleaned it completely, put it back together, and everything works fine. I guess the switch conducted enough current to light the tester, but not enough to kick over the capacitor. Lesson learned from that standpoint.

The thing everyone can take from this is that, as turners, we deal with some pretty pesky sawdust that can get into everything, so we need to take precautions against this sort of contamination. Again, thanks to all of you who chimed in with good advice.

[Dick Strauss]

Russell,
I'm glad you got it figured out and I'm sure it was much less than a new motor! Hopefully they did a good job of cleaning and adjusting everything at the motor shop for a long and healthy motor life.

I suspect the issue was on the neutral side of the switch which is why I suggested you check the resistance on both sides of the switch. The hot side might have tested okay with power after the switch. However, both connections have to be good for the switch to work...so the neutral side needs to be checked for resistance to verify both contacts on the switch. The contacts can also get burned from the rush of current and may need to be cleaned or lightly sanded for a good contact.

Take care,
Dick

[Craig Matheny]

Russel also using a test light and a meter are two different things the ones that are light can pick up false reads and not tell you the true power/voltage that is available. Buy a cheap digital unit HF is fine but then you know if it is 120v or 60v. Good luck

[Donny Lawson]

No help here but I hope you figure it out soon. I hate to here the silence of a lathe not turning out shavings. I know when my shop burnt last year I went crazy until I finally got it started back up again. Good luck and let us know what you find out. There is alot of JET owners out here and it might help someone else later on.

[Russell Neyman]

Would you believe it?!! My turning buddy, Dave, came down just now, and he says his Jet 1642 EVS is working intermittently! He says it just stops when he's turning, and he has to hit the reset button on the inverter to get it going again. (That electronic variable speed setup is completely different than my 1442.) It's not his power source. This might be wearing a little thin, I realize, but any thoughts you guys have relative to this particular machine would be appreciated.

Having just gone through a similar situation -- as noted in this thread -- I'm going down to his shop early in the morning to help him trouble shoot. One thing you can be sure I'm going to do is check all of the switches and connections for dust contamination!! Stay tuned.

[Dick Strauss]

Russell,
This is probably not related to your issue. Not knowing the 1642 exactly but knowing the big brother (the PM3520), here is my stab in the dark for areas to check...

-Make sure your friend is using the low speed pulley when turning larger pieces, otherwise the motor will stall and you will have to reset the inverter as reported by your friend (this issue is the most likely by far). It may also stall the motor if the tools are wrong, dull, or the bite is too big.
-secondary switches may be a problem (as applicable)...the primary will not have the same issue because it relies on contact blocks to make the connection.
-check the input voltage to make sure that it is within spec at the wall outlet. If you are at the end of a power run in the country, you may experience temporary voltage sags as demand increases upstream.
-inverter parameters may have been changed or the inverter might be bad
-motor is overheating or defective

If you can get more specific details as to the size of the piece being turned, what tools used and how sharp, low or high pulley, how long has the lathe been running when the issue occurs, etc, it will make it easier to track down the issue. If the lathe is still under warranty, you will probably want to contact WMH (parent company to both Jet, PM, and Wilton) if options 1, 2, & 3 are verified not to be an issue.

[Russell Neyman]

If we were to check to see is the inverter has gone bad (the likely culprit, since it hums when the lathe has quit) how would we do that?

[Bill Wyko]

My JET did that a long time ago. It turned out to be a bad crimp on one of the wires. The wire was connected to the connector but the wire was broken in the insulation. Good luck. Do you have a continuity meter?

[Bill Wyko]

That says it's a 3 phase motor. Do you have 3 phase power to your shop?


Russell - I can't attach these photos to a PM so thought that I'd just post it.

Any guess as to whether or not this one would work?

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[Russell Neyman]

The odyssey involving the Dave's Jet 1642 took a somewhat astonishing turn -- for the better, I guess -- and it's worth sharing. He and I got together crack of dawn yesterday to troubleshoot the system following the same steps I used with my 1442. We pulled all of the switches, cleaned them thoroughly, and looked for the crimped wires, etc. We also checked voltages at various points along the circuit. Machine still occasionally quit and made that humming sound, and the inverter shut down. To restart it, we had to hit the reset button on the bottom of the inverter, and even then is often wouldn't go.

Frustrated, we backed off, and Dave got ready to call Jet to order a new inverter because he was convinced that was the problem. I sat in a chair across the room, drinking a cup of coffee, taking a good long look at the situation. Sitting atop the headstock was a small wood bowl that Dave used to keep spare jaw screws and miscellaneous small parts. In an instant, the old noggin lightbulb clicked: "Dave, is that bowl magnetic--?" "Yup," he said, "I put several Rare Earth magnets in the base, to hold it in place and to keep screws from bouncing out." "Well," I said, "it's right over the RPM indicator. Do you think those magnets could be affecting the electronic controls--?"

It was an ah-hah moment. We moved the magnetic bowl to the lathe bed, and -- poof! -- problem gone. That bowl had been there for months, but he often shifted it around while working. So, probably, when he moved it to the area near the LED RPM control it would affect the sensitive electronics just enough to shut the system down.

Just goes to show you that the smallest choices can affect and entire situation. Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. Hopefully, somebody who has similar issues with these two lathes down the road will use the Sawmill Creek "search" feature, discover this thread, and save themselves some grief.

[Damon Stathatos]

That says it's a 3 phase motor. Do you have 3 phase power to your shop?

Bill - I didn't want to create any confusion in this thread with my post and pictures of my new Jet motor. Russell had originally posed the question about whether or not he may need a new motor. Since then, he is seems to be on his way to a solution to his problem. He had also determined that this is a different motor mount type than his.

My story is that I had this new Jet motor (the motor that I was offering to Russell) that I had purchased off of a Creeker about a year ago. My original plan was to replace the motor in my PM90 which had been previously retrofitted with a single phase delta motor. Although there was another post stating that most PM90's were single phase, whenever I run across them, they are mostly 3ph. My motivation to switch my PM90 back to 3ph was that I could then incorporate it with a VFD to lower the minimum rpms, which is currently 1000. When I first got the lathe, I was concerned that the Reeves drive on the PM90, with it's minimum 1000 rpms, would eliminate my chances to rough out bowls and delegate the lathe to pretty much spindle stock.

After I got the new Jet motor, I realized that I could probably make it fit into the limited cavity where the existing motor is but that I'd also need to fabricate a new mounting plate to accommodate the different frame style. Laziness set in at this point and then, in time, I began to dare roughing out bowl stock at what I had previously thought too high an rpm and have had some success with that. I'm not on a lathe 100% of the time, the lathe is a diversion for me rather than my regular fare, so it seems to be working out for me fine. This thread has almost re-sparked my original interest in the ability to slow my beast down and so the next time I see my neighbor (a metalworker) I'm going to talk to him about the possibility of a new mount for this new Jet motor.

Finally, to answer your question, I do have 3ph power in my shop, both 220 and 440, although in this case, with a VFD, it wouldn't be necessary. Most all of my machines are 3ph except a cluster of single phase 220 machines from my original garage shop, (clustered together because I only have one 220 1ph line run, again, laziness).

[David Drickhamer]

I don't know how old your lathe is but Jet has a 5 year warranty on lathes. Give them a call and see what they can do. They might even have authorized repair guy in your area that can come out to your shop and fix/replace it.