diamond lapping plates

[David Wadstrup]

Hi,

I'm looking to purchase a diamond lapping plate to flatten my waterstones. I'm trying to decide between the Automa 400 and the new DMT Dia-Flat. The reviews of both are great. There is a difference in cost, but not too much -- especially considering that I'll be getting, hopefully, a few years of life out of it. Which would you go with?

Thanks!

[Christopher Hawkins]

I received my DMT Dia-Flat earlier this week. I used it for the first time today flattening a set of Norton waterstones. It worked as others had described. No issues.

[Tony Shea]

The grit of these two stones I believe to be very different. The Dia-Flat being a very coarse stone and the Atoma odviously of 400ggrit. I actually think i remember the Dia-flat being a 120 micron plate, which I believe is roughly 120 grit. I could be off a little on the micron to grit. IMO 120 grit is too coarse for waterstones, not sure what made them use this grit when developing a plate that is essentially designed to flatten waterstones. Once you get into your 5000 and finer stones the scratches left behind from such a coarse stone are a bit much. I think the 400grit to be about optimum for the finer stones and does well with the coarser 1000's as well. Takes a few seconds longer to flatten but shouldn't really be noticable if you're flattening your stones regularly.

But this is all theory as I have never tried the Dia-Flat stone out yet and probably will never.

[Stuart Tierney]

Hi,

I'm looking to purchase a diamond lapping plate to flatten my waterstones. I'm trying to decide between the Automa 400 and the new DMT Dia-Flat. The reviews of both are great. There is a difference in cost, but not too much -- especially considering that I'll be getting, hopefully, a few years of life out of it. Which would you go with?

Thanks!

I just did a quick googling, and the DMT Dia-flat at it's best price ($179) is twice as much as the Atoma ($90).

Sorry, I still can't believe the DMT is 'that much better', and I'm still convinced they completely missed the target when they made the thing.

I'd love to show you an Atoma in action, since I recently put up a video of one in use. But it's a heavily commercial (info-mercial actually) and I can't do that here.

If I had one of these new DMT Dia-flat things, I'd really like to see if it's twice as good as an Atoma. It won't be, but I'd like to be 100% sure of my thoughts.

Stu.

(Caveat, I sell Atoma diamond plates. It doesn't cloud my judgement though, they really are that good and I don't need to pay anyone to say that.)

[Archie England]

I flatten my all my water stones, from a 120 to a 13000 with my iWood 300 diamond plate. It's about $50 and is the perfect size for flattening my stones. I wanted an Atoma 325/400 but couldn't afford any further expense; so, I bought the iWood as an alternate choice. Well, let me tell you this, the iWood is a fantastic diamond plate--flat and has a distinctive pattern with channels for swarf maintenance, and it's rather large. I'm so pleased!!!! Yes, I want an Atoma, too; but it can wait--because the little brother is doing just fine.

SO TO SUM UP my thoughts: I'm so glad that I didn't spend $200-300 on a diamond lapping plate. I got several high end water stones that are perfectly flattened by my iWood 300. I will not hesitate to buy another should the need arise. It has shown no tendency to rust or wear. I'm very pleased. Oh, and I bought mine from Tools from Japan. Check out the website. Schtoo (Stu) sells both iWood and Atoma at a very reasonable price, plus he's a heck of a nice person to do business with. I highly recommend his products and his service!!!!

Enjoy,

Archie

[Orlando Gonzalez]

+1 for the Atoma #400. I also use a #600 on a Japanese natural stone.

I also fully endorse, support, recommend Stu and his store.

(Stu who just got walloped by the core of TS Talas and I hope all is well)

[Chris Vandiver]

I have had 2 Atoma 400 plates that were not dead flat. I know of other people who have had the same problem. I would at least check the Atomas for flatness before trusting it.

Atoma plates are also available from Hida Tool in Berkeley, California, a long established seller of Japanese woodworking tools, etc.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I have had 2 Atoma 400 plates that were not dead flat. I know of other people who have had the same problem. I would at least check the Atomas for flatness before trusting it.

Atoma plates are also available from Hida Tool in Berkeley, California, a long established seller of Japanese woodworking tools, etc.

How do you flatten a diamond plate? Send it back?

Pam

[Stuart Tierney]

How do you flatten a diamond plate? Send it back?

Pam

I don't know, never had one to send back for any reason.

But if I ever did see one, I'd send it back with a nasty-gram attached. ;)


Stu.

[David Weaver]

I've been through 5 DMTs and Atomas (well, not been through, but bought, the hones that are reserved for stones only haven't seem to change at all in years).

I also have two copies of the chinese-made iWood copy (I got them before I even knew the iwood existed). Only those two copies are not flat, but they are plenty close enough for bevel work, and they are actually very good hone that I have used on steel, wore one out though and the other one is most of the way there.

The atomas and the DMTs are all flat (DMTs are two duosharps and one "bench stone", no diasharps).

I believe that DMT is making a market here with this new thing (i.e., they're solving a problem that doesn't really exist). That is, of course, my opinion and everyone is granted to theirs.

The duosharps are bought from places that allow returns, I don't know about the atomas, but both of mine are dead flat. If you run into a DMT or an atoma that isn't flat, exchange it for another one. I like the atomas better, they don't suck to the stones like a DMT does, but I could get along with any of them.

And I believe the 8x3 duosharp, which can be had for $60 fairly often, and could be bought in XC, C would be a much much better deal than the diaflat.

But I'm sure if DMT could make a hone that was built out of one solid piece of sintered diamonds and make it .000001" flat and bind it with kryptonite, there would be a market for it because someone who never tried a $60 duosharp would see it first and figure that since they say it's better, it must be needed.

So, to me, using some stones that cost several multiples of what the DMT lapping thing costs (so it's not as if I wouldn't spend the money if it were actually better), when I can take an iron that came off of a prior grit stone, flatten a finish stone and immediately get polishing corner to corner, I think the new diaflat is a waste of money. Just as I thought the mega high dollar shapton flattening plate is a waste of money.

If you're buying stones and you'd rather spend discretionary dollars on stones than flatteners, buy the iwood, duosharp, atoma, whatever and exchange it if it's not flat. If you're buying the diaflat because you believe the iwood, duosharp and atoma aren't good enough....I'm sure the market will have something better than the diaflat soon, maybe someone will buy the diaflat from you used when you're busy solving other problems that don't exist.

[Jonas Baker]

I have two Diasharp stones, one is the coarse which I used for sharpening moderately worn chisels, plane blades, and flattening stones, and the other is the extra extra coarse, which I bought for flattening backs and establishing bevels on badly worn chisels and plane blades. The coarse stone is pretty worn out but it still works for flattening stones, though I do need to replace it soon. I haven't really used the extra extra coarse so much because it is so coarse that it takes for ever to remove the scratches.

My problem with the diasharps is that they do shed their diamond grit and become worn out. I would love to have a stone that lasts longer, and a bigger diamond plate would be cool too, so I think the dia-flat sounds like a great idea. It is just so expensive though. You could buy three diasharps for the price of one, and those three would last a long long long time. The other silly thing about the diaflat is that its 120 grit. I don't think I would want to flatten my fine stones with 120 grit. But it does sound like they will last a long time... but will they last a long time when using them on tool steel? I like to use diamond stones for initial sharpening, theres less mess, less time spent flattening (though I think they're not as fast cutting as certain water stones out there) and you don't need to be near a sink all the time. If the price were a bit cheaper, the grit were a bit finer, like 300, and they did in fact last a long time even when using them on tool steel, then I would think about it.

I know nothing about how the atomas would last when shapening tools on them, so I'd like to know more about this.

[David Weaver]

The atomas last like other hones. Not so much that it seems like the diamonds are coming out, but they get "dull" and cut slower.

The trouble with any worn diamond hone for use lapping the back of something is that even one that is "dull" will leave deep scratches. If you're not getting really fast cutting in exchange for the deep scratches, it's not worth the trouble.

I don't know how the diaflat would be for lapping tools, maybe it'll be good and the extra durability will help somehow. But I'd rather use loose diamonds on any flat mild steel or cast iron for that. Much cheaper, and a refreshed surface is only a nickel or two's worth of diamonds away.

[Mike Brady]

I'm chuckling as I read through these posts about diamond lapping plates. I wonder if anyone has told DMT that their diamond "sharpening" stones aren't really very well suited for that purpose, but rather should be used to flatten yet another set of sharpening stones that have been additionally purchased.

Not long ago, Shapton stones were the Holy Grail of sharpening, but recently they seem to have become something less. One well known woodworking personality has mentioned several times in blogs that he consumed more than one very expensive Shapton diamond flattening stone (one of them quite quickly) and the accompanying set of ceramic stones (50% of which consists of a block of ordinary glass); not surprising since the demo videos inevitably show the flattening process being done several times during just one sharpening session. So those are now "outre".

It would seem that natural stones actually made of stone might be the next "gotta have it", if they can find another rich vein of the stuff down in Arkansas.

All of this makes me a little skeptical that perhaps we are being had.

[David Weaver]

I wonder if anyone has told DMT that their diamond "sharpening" stones aren't really very well suited for that purpose,

Seems like folks mention having worn out DMTs on knife, razor and tool forums. The only thing I've seen from DMT is that they suggest you check to make sure your plate isn't just loaded. My beat hone has never been loaded or used dry. It's still beat, inferior to a *good* stone in longevity by a long shot, and more expensive.

Even saw a video of brian boggs mentioning that his set of DMT bench stones needed to be replaced. Looked like they were set up to lap and joint scrapers. Can't just be attributed to unskilled amateurs.

Wouldn't trade my set of shapton pros for a set of DMTs to sharpen things (which is about right, they cost about the same) even with cash in return on the trade. Not even an overzealous blogger would wear out the pro stones, though i know of at least one who mentioned ruining a diamond hone.

[Jonathan McCullough]

My observation is that a grinding wheel and/or cheap sandpaper is best for initial tool sharpening and flattening. I have 8 x 3 DMT duo sharps C, M, F, XF, that do a very good job after that. I had to replace the Coarse/Medium hone because I wore it out, but I really put it through a lot of use. Now I'd use it as the second and third of many steps to getting a really fine edge, and for that it should probably last me thirty years. I'm still looking for the ideal finer hone, and doubtless many people have their favorites, but right now I'm messing around with Arkansas translucents, a DMT D8EE 8k stone, and the Spyderco Ultra Fine.

[Don Dorn]

Being as lazy as I am, I sharpen by the Cosman method because it's fast and produces a fantastic edge. However, I'm not doing the Shapton ave because I don't want to flatten. I bought a 600 DMT duo sharp (for the sharpening bevel) and a D8EE 8k stone (for the tertiary). Don't have to soak or flatten and they work well. My hope is that using them only for honing, they will last a very long time.