Anyone have a 3 phase bandsaw they run on single phase?

[Jack Gaskins]

Looking for a bandsaw and there are several on craigslist but they are all 3 phase. Is it worth getting one of these and buying a phase inverter for it? I dont need the industrial use of a saw this size but i have read the Mebers are really high quality saws and at the price of a Grizzly saw I was just wondering if it was worth the effort of getting the Meber for my garage shop.

[Robert Boyd]

There are two options to do this: The most expensive route is to buy a rotary phase converter(500-1000) or the cheaper way is to buy a VFD (factorymation.com) cost is 100 on up. The only limit on the VFD is the horsepower. Anything up to 3hp will work anything over that is the expensive route.

I use one for my table saw. You can control the ramp up and slow down speed. You only need a 240v outlet to do it.

[David Kumm]

I would get a vfd to run the saw. You will have to bypass the mag starter and the kill switch on the brake but a pretty good way to go for a couple hundred or so. Meber is a better saw than grizzly for sure not quite considered the equal of Centauro that supplies most minimax, Agazanni, or ACM. Look at the weight for the size in comparison to the others. The italians have beefed their saws up a lot in the last few years to increase the resaw height but if the height is in the 12-14" range compare it to saws of similar height rather than new. Dave

[brian c miller]

I run a 5 hp table saw on a simple static convertor (bank of capacitors to help start the saw)

[Chris Fournier]

Used VFD - cheap and effective.

[Carroll Courtney]

http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=101307 No,I have nothing to do with this just passing it on.But it sure does look like a good deal.I have a 5hp and wish now that I had a 7.5hp.----Carroll

[Jack Gaskins]

http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=101307 No,I have nothing to do with this just passing it on.But it sure does look like a good deal.I have a 5hp and wish now that I had a 7.5hp.----Carroll

That is one big motor. To big for though. I only really need a bandsaw between 14 and 18 inches but the ones on craigslist are always 20+ inches and 3 phase. All the 14 inch bandsaws on the market today are just not up to par for any kind of real cutting IMO.

[James Boster]

Buy a bigger saw and use a vfd. I have a 30" Tannawitz with a 3hp motor. The motor is as big as a 30 gallon drum. running it with a Teco FM50 vfd from factorymation. Works great and is no comparison to a 14" saw.

[Jim Matthews]

How close are you to Waverly, OH?

Jet Bandsaw (http://www.irsauctions.com/popups/bidders_paddle.asp?lot=208442&auction=TZSXF78D0WZWGRZGG3F8XCUIR7FHSJ&id=15064)

[brian c miller]

206790
I run a 5 hp table saw on a simple static convertor (bank of capacitors to help start the saw)

Here's the picture... cost about $50 dollars.

[David Kumm]

If you use a static converter the motor is derated about 1/3. Go over to OWWM.org and read up on vfds, RPCs, including plans for making your own, and static converters. I run an Oliver 217-30" similar to the tanny PH and upgraded from a Laguna LT18 from the late 1990s. No comparison for resawing. Steel saws are fine but it takes a larger one to get even close to the old cast iron ones. There are several smaller heavy saws made today, MM16 and 20, several laguna models. All are more expensive new than older 20-24" steel saws and 30" cast iron machines but do have the capacity for resawing. Again, if you don't saw wider than eight inches it is less important but if you foresee wider boards and do a lot of sawing you will appreciate size and strength. Used saws are a real bargain right now. Dave

[Jack Gaskins]

Im in Indianapolis but the Jet is on the small side for me.

[Jack Gaskins]

I found a 24" Tannawitz Advantage series woodworking BS for $2250. Looks to be in great shape but have never seen one up close. It is 3.6hp and 3 phase. Dont know where they make them but they look nice. Wonder how much it would cost to set it up with a vfd?

[Jack Gaskins]

I wouldnt know what to look for in an old iron saw.....

[Jack Gaskins]

Im an idiot when it comes to electrical stuff. Does this mean I could buy a 3 phase bandsaw and wire it up to run on 220v?

[David Kumm]

Last I talked with them, the Advantage series was made in Italy and the Power series in Taiwan. Call to verify and ask who makes it for them. You need a vfd to convert the 220 single phase to 3 phase. You do not want a static converter as a vfd is cheap and way better. A rotary phase converter is better as well and can power any 3 phase machine you may buy. Single phase is definately easier to cope with although once you understand 3 phase it opens a world of possibilities. Dave

[Robert Boyd]

Im an idiot when it comes to electrical stuff. Does this mean I could buy a 3 phase bandsaw and wire it up to run on 220v?

Absolutely yes!

Follow the link below. This will work for a 3hp 3phase motor.
http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.198/.f?sc=2&category=32

[Bob Aquino]

This is my saw, its a 20" Rockwell 3 phase running on 220. The vfd is mounted in the column and gives you the advantage of variable speed as well as braking.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y0Ev82XWqRE/SMxQNdqttKI/AAAAAAAAERI/84x9TNfZwig/s800/P1030342.JPG

[David Kumm]

Bob, That is a great installation. I assume the on off is to power the vfd. Does the vfd have a braking unit attached or is the unit enough on its own to overcome the wheel inertia? Is the plate cosmetic or to help reinforce the neck? Dave

[Bob Aquino]

Bob, That is a great installation. I assume the on off is to power the vfd. Does the vfd have a braking unit attached or is the unit enough on its own to overcome the wheel inertia? Is the plate cosmetic or to help reinforce the neck? Dave

The mag switch powers the VFD, the vfd buttons turn the motor on and off. The built in braking is enough to do the job, you can add a braking resistor if you want it to work faster. Not sure what you mean about the plate, if you're talking about the flat plate around the unit, that was there previously, it covers where the optional blade welder would have gone.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-H9hnI7kmv2I/SMP_cT25GvI/AAAAAAAADhM/Bhr6xG-deZM/s800/P1030322.JPG

[Jack Gaskins]

This is the Tannawitz near me. Looks like to much saw for me though and it is 3 phase. How much do you think it would cost to get it running on single phase 220?

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/tls/2582695074.html

[David Kumm]

Bob, That really worked out well. The on off is a manual rather than a mag switch. That is the only downside to using a vfd. If the machine has a magnetic motor starter it must be swapped for a manual one. No big deal. Jack, expect to spend a few hundred to convert the saw. You will need the vfd- about $200, give or take, a double pole switch to power the vfd with the box, and if the vfd is close to the machine, a way to protect it from dust. That is the beauty of Bob's installation. In effect he has a big ass enclosure surrounding the vfd. It isn't that difficult but some knowledge of electrical stuff is real helpful here. Dave

[Jack Gaskins]

Used VFD - cheap and effective.

Does a FVD reduce the HP of the motor? So, if I buy this 2003 Tannawitz 24" bandsaw and put a VFD in it, will it still be a 3.6 hp motor or will it be reduced?

[David Kumm]

The HP remains the same. Dave

[Mike Heidrick]

It will be full power but a 3.6hp capable vfd will be a derrated 3phase model ran on single phase. Most $200 VFDs are not rated for above 3hp. Might be able to get away with a 3HP though. Also you can wire a VFD with momentary stop and start buttons provided it has a multifunction output and you dont mind loosing your reversing switches. Pic is from Rob or Chris I believe:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/FM50manual.jpg

[ian maybury]

This just to point out that a rotary converter can also be a very effective solution with some unique advantages.

I bought a used 3 phase 3kW Agazzani 24in last year, and run it on a UK made 5.5kW Transwave rotary phase converter. So far so very good - I've only tried it on up to about 10in re-saw depth in a piece of very tough old parana pine with a 3 tpi bimetal blade, but it sailed through that without breaking sweat.

The rotary was a little more expensive than a basic 230V inverter is, but after lots of help from here it became clear that it was the better choice for me since the UK spec saw motor is delta wound so that 400V was the lowest voltage option - unlike many 3 phase dual voltage motors here (Ireland and UK) which will run on 230 or 400v depending on how they are wired.

This because the above UK made rotary incorporates a transformer to make the step up to 400V from our 230V single phase power - while the VFDs/inverters available over here are limited to 230V apart from one slightly questionable model which it seems may not be approved because (some say) it can feed interference back to the mains supply. It's certainly the case that the mainstream makers do not supply 400V output VFDs here (the situation in the US is possibly different), and the 400V VFD that is available is as expensive as a rotary converter.

Either way the rotary has a few things going for it:

1. It's basically plug and play - no more difficult to hook up than fitting a plug.
2. It avoids the need to change the OEM wiring and controls on the saw.
3. It's available to run other items of 3 phase equipment totalling up to its rated capacity - simultaneously if necessary. (e.g. a 3 phase power feeder)
4. It need not be sold on with the saw. Most sold over here are of considerably more capacity than is needed to run a single machine, and are wired in to supply 3 phase power to all of the sockets in commercial shops using 3 phase machines.

I was quite surprised at how effective a solution it is - apart from a bit of a thump as the idler motor starts up it produces only a low hum and is otherwise indistinguishable from a mains supply in use. (although depending on how well optimised the capacitors are it may ultimately result in some slight (although considerably less than is the case with a capacitor only static converter) de-rating of the saw motor)

One consideration to bear in mind if profile cutting is important, and if going for a large e.g. Italian heavy duty band saw is that these big saws don't always track blades below about 3/8in wide very well due to the wheels being less heavily cambered/crowned than are smaller saws designed to run narrow blades.

ian

[Frank Drew]

I wouldnt know what to look for in an old iron saw..... Jack, You could do a lot worse than by starting your search looking for nameplates that say Tannewitz, Yates-American, Oliver, Northfield, Crescent....

[Mike Cruz]

3hp VFD from Factorymation is about $200. That's what I did.

[Jack Gaskins]

3hp VFD from Factorymation is about $200. That's what I did.

what did you put it on? the reason I started the thread was there is a Tannawitz 24" bandsaw near me for less that $2k and its only about 8 years old. Looks to be in good shape. Im not a resawer per say but have been wanting a larger bandsaw (I only have a crappy griz 0555 14" now). Just trying to get a good saw for at less as possible,

[Mike Cruz]

I ran across a 1958 Delta/Rockwell 20" BS. I did a restore on it, and among other things, added a 3 hp 3 ph motor. Then got the TECO FM50 3 hp VFD. The thing to look out for, as someone else already pointed out, is not so much the hp but the amps. For example, I believe the 1.5 hp FM50 is rated to 7.5 amps. You have to watch out that you don't find an 8.3 amp 1.5 hp motor (if that even exists). Likewise, if you found a 3 hp motor that is rated for 7.5 amps (if that exists), you could get the 1.5 hp FM50. What I am trying to say is that you can kind of go by the "hp" rating of the VFD, but should be more concerned about the amp rating. I've looked extensively for used VFDs and didn't find anything that even came close to a new FM50. I have 3 of them. They all work great. BTW, why get a VFD for each machine? One thing I've learned is that no machine is "forever". Someday, each will be sold. A 3 phase machine is hard to sell. Unless it has its own phase converter, then it is basically a single phase machine. Any electronic variable speed lathe has a 3 phase motor and a phase converter in it. Same thing...