Question on on rehabbing some planes, and my first gloat!

[Matt Lau]

Dear Creekers,

For the past several years I've seen gloat after gloat.
Today, I sort of have a gloat--I bought two planes for $25--nothing fancy, just users.

The thing is, I'm not sure about how much I'll have to rehab the things.
It looks like some idiot sprayed black paint on all surfaces and then forgot about the planes for about 40 years. The handle on the #4 is loose and wobbly. The sole is not perfectly flat.
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However, I have a feeling that these planes may have some good "bones."

Anyone care to advise me on the rehab?
btw, I don't have a lathe or a bandsaw.

[Sean Hughto]

My first 5 (jack) rehab subject was sprayed flat black too. Ironically, it probably helped to protect the plane. It was easy to remove with solvents.

[Joe A Faulkner]

You will find lots of information on restoring\tuning planes. The smaller block plane looks like a Stanley 110 and the larger plane looks like it may be a No. 4. Google Patrick Leach Blood and Gore and you will find some good information on various Stanley planes. As block planes go, the 110 is not very highly regarded and they can be found fairly easily. I suggest you try your hand at restoring it first. Some guys go all out on restoring these old planes to better than. new condition, while others simply will flatten the soles, knock the rust off the sides and sharpen the blade, put some polish or wax on the body and start making curls. I tend to be more in the second camp. Even though the 110 is not a "prized" tool, if you get a sharp edge on the iron, you will be surprised at what it will do.

Once you've done the 110, I think it will give you a bit of confidence in taking on the other plane.

If you don't already have some skills and equipment for sharpening blades, stop, do not pass go, do not mess with these old planes until you either
a) find a friend who will sharpen the blades for you and\or teach you how
or
b) Do some self study on this topic and acquire some sharpening equipment - word of note - sharpening equipment is essential - if you plan to use hand tools, you have to have the ability and equipment to sharpen the blades - word of fact - you likely will need to invest more in sharpening equipment than you did in the planes - still less expensive than BASS fishing or a couple of rounds of golf :)

[Prashun Patel]

I cld be wrong, but that small one looks like a 102. IMHO, you should start with the blades. How do they look? I'm assuming you have some good-working planes currently to know what you should be shooting for, right?

My prefered method for removing paint or light rust is a fine wire cup on a drill press. Lee Valley has free plans for totes that you can make with nothing more than a coping saw, a rasp, and a drill press.

[Lowell Smith]

I've found this site useful when restoring my planes

http://www.rexmill.com/

[Matt Lau]

Thanks for the tips.

I'm just surprised to see black paint liberally applied to all surfaces, and wasn't sure if removing it all would affect the japanning. I've got a Grizzly copy of the 60 1/2 and #5, and a Mujingfeng smoother.

For my plane irons, I use japanese waterstones (synthetic and ceramic) with a generic sharpening guide.
I'm considering swapping out the irons on these for hock irons, or just building myself a woodie.

Anyways, to get back to the topic at hand: should I simply use solvents, wirebrush, electrolysis, or all of the above?
Also, has anyone used the suction/grinder attachment from Lee Valley (or am I just derailing this neander thread)?

[Harvey Pascoe]

The #4 could be a fine plane but for that horrid Stanley height adjuster. I've got one and I never have figure out how to remove the 2.5 turn slack in the height mechanism because the forks are cast and cannot be flatted out take some of the slack out. The only way would be to braze some brass on to it and then reshape it.

[Joe A Faulkner]

... Anyways, to get back to the topic at hand: should I simply use solvents, wirebrush, electrolysis, or all of the above?
...

I would not use a wire bursh for fear of introducing scratches deeper than you might want. It is hard to tell from the picture of the #4 what shape the japanning is in and if the original plane body was painted as well. If the paint is just on the sides and sole, then I would simply use sandpaper stuck to float glass, a piece of granite (monument scrap), or perhaps a jointer bed or table saw top. You will go through lots of sandpaper. I start out with 100 grit, and move to 150 and 220.

I wouldn't mess with electrolysis, been there done that, simply because you still wind up sanding the sole to flatten it, and probably the sides to, just to get a uniform finish. Others use electrolysis and swear by it.

Here's a post you might find useful if you really want to restore this plane to better than new condition: http://shootingboard.net/shop/hand-tools/japanning/. Good luck, and no matter what process you use, you likely will only improve the condition and usefulness of these planes. Take lots of pictures of your before and after. Here's another site that walks thru the process: http://www.majorpanic.com/handplane_restor1.htm. Keep us posted.

[Matt Lau]

Maybe I should look into one of those fancy Veritas planes instead.

Any tips for an amateur guitar builder?

[Roy Lindberry]

I'm not sure where it is, but Jim Koepke has done a primer on cleaning and fettling planes. You might try a search for his threads. They are pretty informative.

[James Scheffler]

Maybe I should look into one of those fancy Veritas planes instead.


Personally, I would give cleaning/tuning these planes a chance. They probably will work quite well, unless there are significant flaws we can't see in the pictures. However, the choice whether to restore or buy a new premium plane often comes down to whether you have more money or more time.

Jim

[Prashun Patel]

Matt, the most time-consuming portion of the rehab is the paint removal. If it ain't rusty, I vote you just leave it. If it were me, I'd focus on the sole and the blade. If it works well in your hands, then you can honor the plane by stripping or fixing its coloring. I wouldn't invest in a new blade until you've determined that you like the plane enough to invest in that.

I love my small Stanley 102 - but precisely because it's my 'beater' plane. I can use it for aggressive shaping and on glue. The original blade works well for this purpose.

As for the smoother, you might decide that the backlash or adjustability, or size, or angle of that plane is not to your liking.

You learn a LOT by rehabbing - mostly about yourself. I think it's a worthwhile endeavor. At the very least, it will greatly inform your purchase of your next plane. If you determine you love what you have, then you can invest in better blades.

FWIW, I have a Hock blade for my jointer. It works as advertised. However, I hear great things about Lee Valley and Pinnacle blades as well.

[jamie shard]

I've used the citrus based paint remover and it works really well. If everything was spray painted, I'd be tempted to paint the entire plane with the remover as a first step. But I really agree that you should get the sole and blade tuned up and try it out before spending a lot of time.

I have a junky block plane that I set up as a cambered scrub plane -- for 2x4 type carpentry work. It was a great use of a $5 plane and I did learn a lot by rehabbing it.

[Jim Koepke]

Matt,

Check the "sticky" near the top of the forum, "Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs".

There are a few threads on hand planes including a few on rehabilitation.

As others have mentioned, rehabbing planes is a great learning/confidence building experience.

jtk

[Chen-Tin Tsai]

The #4 doesn't look all that bad. The paint makes it look uglier, but I suspect it also protected the metal surface. I'd take some solvent to it and try to remove the paint on the sole and sides and then take a look at the flatness. From your pic, it looks like maybe the paint is causing some of the "unevenness" on the sole. Everything else on it looks to be in decent shape. After removing the paint from the sole and sides, sharpen the iron and chipbreaker and try it. If it works fine and takes a nice shaving, you're done! :)

[Bill Houghton]

You've gotten some good advice on the bench plane, and on the planes in general. My thoughts:

1. Obviously, clean them up. I like to use a white vinegar soak for rust - 24 hours in vinegar (take it apart first...), and you can clean most rust off with a toothbrush (or, better, a brass-bristled brush - look in the paint aisle at your hardware store). Rinse the vinegar off immediately, scrub off the rust, do necessary fine cleanup with steel wool, and hit everything, while still apart, with WD-40 to dissuade new rust. Then wax the sole and the frog where the iron beds, oil threaded parts, and reassemble.

2. In my opinion, especially for shorter planes, sharpness of the iron is 80-90% of tuning. You can spend hours getting the sole flat, filing the frog, etc., all of which may or may not be needed; but half an hour (the first time; it gets faster) getting a frog-hair-splitting edge on your iron, and you'll see more difference than you're likely to see with the hours of fettling. There are exceptions: there are planes so tweaked that you need to fuss with them. But, in my experience, these are few and far between.

3. I'm with Joe Faulkner; that block plane looks like a 110. Is there a post with very, very coarse threads sticking up at the front? If so, it's probably a 110; you should be able to see the model number somewhere on the plane. If there is such a threaded post, you can get a knob from Stanley: http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/12110usa.html. The new ones are not pretty, but they're functional, and easier than making your own.

As you read the literature, and the online discussions, you'll read arguments that ya gotta have an adjustable mouth on yer block planes. Patrick Leach, whose "Blood and Gore" is quite helpful in IDing Stanley plane models, calls the 110 a cheap piece of junk or something like that. If you learn the fine motor skills needed to adjust the iron on your 110 (suggestion follows), you're likely to find you can do quite a bit, and certainly more than if you don't have the plane. Again, sharpness, sharpness, sharpness! For adjusting it, set it on a smooth, flat, hard surface (all else failing, turn your No. 4 over), with a piece of typing paper under the sole in front of the mouth. Let the iron slide down until it's resting on the surface, and tighten the cap (you don't need Arnold tightness - just snug). Now look underneath; you should see a hairline edge.

[Matt Lau]

Personally, I would give cleaning/tuning these planes a chance. They probably will work quite well, unless there are significant flaws we can't see in the pictures. However, the choice whether to restore or buy a new premium plane often comes down to whether you have more money or more time.

Jim

That's what Don at Japan Woodworker told me.
He said something along the lines of "if you have money to burn, buy a new plane. Otherwise, just fix this as your homework."

I ended up buying 4 4x24" pieces of specialty paper and some hide glue.
I'll be following his advice: paint stripper, water, then lap the soles with micron sandpaper progressively.
I'll post pictures when I'm done.

I'll strip some paint tonight.
The lapping will have to wait until tomorrow, when the glass shop opens.