Would love to discuss the using of hide glue... [Archive]

bob blakeborough

08-30-2011, 2:37 PM

Hi Everyone,

So being the relative newbie I am, every day I am in the shop brings on a new learning experience, and the more I am learning, the more I want to learn, and last weekend I was over at a friends (who is a bit of my mentor who is helping me learn more about hand tool woodworking), another fellow was there who is a violin maker and a brief discussion of hide glue came up. My woodworking friend doesn't use it himself, but the Luthier does. I didn't have enough time as I had to head out, but the subject stayed in my brain...

Now from my research online, it sounds like the major benefits of using hide glue are strength, durability and reversibility, while the downsides are short open time and the obvious requirements of needing things such as a glue pot etc to mix it in as well as the effort to make it vs just squeezing Titebond from a bottle.

In regards to strength, how much stronger is it than using something like Titebond III? Is the difference going to give you any real world benefit in the production of normal household furniture (things such as drawers, chests, tables etc)? From my understanding, if you are building furniture that you want to last generations, it is probably the best way to go, but is the normal glues that much worse? I can see being reversible as a good thing for things like drawer repair etc...

For the downsides, how long does one have to work with it once applied? Online I find lots of comments about how if the glue gels before the piece is bonded, you will need to start again, but I can't seem to find out what sort of real time that is? Obviously there will be some variations depending on temperature etc, but can it be reasonably quantified? As for the production of hide glue, is there a learning curve? Is it really that much of a pain or is it pretty simple and not overly time consuming? Some people seem to produce a bit of it and freeze the leftovers in ice cube trays to just reheat the next time they need it...

Anyways, I would love to hear some real world experience from people who use it in furniture building. The idea of it is appealing to me in the sense of doing things in the "old timey" way, but is the reality all it is cracked up to be? If anyone is willing to put their thoughts down, it would be greatly appreciated!

Bob

David Weaver

08-30-2011, 3:01 PM

Liquid hide isn't old timey, but it is a bit more expensive and apparently not very water resistant (like some of the glues like TBIII are, at least more than liquid hide).

I have been using liquid hide for a while because it has a long open time, and because I don't feel the need to be quite so anal retentive about wiping off every atom of glue that might show up later when you finish something, nor being quite so anal retentive about clamping the crap out of wood like folks who use the TBs and read magazine articles like to do.

Most of the things you build with TBIII will probably never fail, and if they do, you'll just have to do a little more work to repair.

Liquid hide is about twice as expensive as the higher end new glues, but I haven't ever found glue to be a major expense in any project - senseless to worry about $3 more of glue cost in a project that uses $400 worth of wood and $75 worth of finishing supplies.

john brenton

08-30-2011, 3:35 PM

I have a 1/2 lb of hide glue granules that have been sitting in my shop for a couple of years now. I just never got around to making a glue pot. I know it's not hard, I just haven't done it.

I have worked with hot hide glue though and do think it's the way to go for joinery. The consistency is good, and the main benefit for me is what David said about clean up. The TB is great for big stuff like gluing up legs for turning, laminated tops, shop appliances, etc.

As far as making hide glue goes, I thought about it, but I don't know where to get a fresh hide...and don't think I even want to do that. It would be a good "survival" skill I suppose. You can find good hide glue granules for a decent price, and you're not going to be gluing up a 10 piece laminated benchtop with it or anything.

Andrae Covington

08-30-2011, 4:04 PM

This might be one of those contentious topics...

From all the studies and tests I have seen, as long as the joints are prepared properly any glue that one might reasonably use for woodworking is going to be stronger than the wood itself. So the fact that one type of glue might be stronger than another is irrelevant in my opinion.

Durability is an open question. Animal-based protein colloid glues have been used at least since Egyptian times, and many antique or even ancient objects have survived intact to this day. On other objects, the glue has failed. Was it poor joinery? Extreme weather conditions? A particularly weak batch of glue? The modern, primarily petroleum-based plastic glues have been around for about 100 years, or less. Countless pieces of furniture built in the ensuing decades have held together so far. A few have failed. Will plastic glues survive for hundreds or even thousands of years like collagen glues? We don't know yet.

The reversibility / repairability of hide glue is often cited as an advantage. I think this is particularly helpful for instrument makers, but for furniture, the likelihood of needing to reglue in your lifetime is slim, unless the piece is exposed to extreme heat and humidity or otherwise damaged. The ability to apply heat and moisture to gently disassemble the joinery is a bonus to your descendants or other future owners... assuming that someone in that time is sharp enough to realize the piece was assembled with such a glue.

So far my only forays into hide glue have been to use the commercially-produced liquid forms. I have used both Old Brown Glue and Titebond. Functionally they seem about the same to me. I slightly prefer Old Brown Glue because it is simpler, just hide glue and urea, but the Titebond is available at a local woodworking supply vs. ordering Old Brown Glue online.

I agree with David Weaver that the longer open time and not having to obsess so much about a little glue left behind affecting finishes are two advantages of liquid hide glue (the latter also true of hot hide glue). That said, my shop is pretty cool in the winter, ~50°, and applying warm hide glue to cool pieces of wood causes it to solidify in a hurry. When the shop is warmer though, even 60°, there is plenty of time to get the joints together, get the clamps on, and make adjustments.

Like John Brenton, I've had hide glue granules sitting around the shop for a couple years now, but I have yet to experiment with hot hide glue. Still on my long list of things to try.

Matt Wilson

08-30-2011, 4:04 PM

I tried hide glue on my last project, I quite liked it, but I'm not exclusively using either. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here, but every study/test I've read indicates that hide glue isn't as strong as most pva glues, but its more then strong enough. The main reason I gave it a try is due to the fact that it doesn't impact your finish. Unlike pva glues, improperly cleaned up sqeeze-out won't impact the way finishes are absorbed by the wood. This is a big plus in my books. Hide glue also cleans up easily and is quite reversible.
The two major negatives are:
-the short open time. you really need to plan out your glue up in advance
-prep time. it doesn't take long to cook up a batch, but if you are like me, sometimes you are just trying to get something done in a short period of time.

Matt Lau

08-30-2011, 4:08 PM

Hot hide glue is great!

It's essentially gelatin, and it cleans up nicely. It also allows for rubbed joints, has a very nice acoustic translucency and is ridiculously reversable.
It doesn't creep. It's invisible if used right. It's eco friendly. But it generally has a short working time. For lutherie, it's the best thing to use (unless you're playing with carbon fiber, nomex, or other non wood things).

George Wilson should have a much better explanation of things.

Tony Shea

08-30-2011, 4:09 PM

I personally see no advantage in using the granule form and having to melt your own glue down each time. Especially in a weekend woodworker shop such as mine where throwing the glue pot on every time I enter the shop would be a waste of energy. This type of hide glue also is much more finiky as far as open time goes.

I absolutely have fallen i love with pre-bottled formulations of luquid hide glue such as Patrick Edward's Old Brown glue. Titebond's Luquid Hide glue is also very nice to work with. If someone wants to use hide glue (which I highly reccomend) then buying it already bottled in luquid form is unquestionably the way to go in this day in age. You still get the transparency through finishes, which is it's biggest assest, and end up with over double the open time. This stuff is just as reversable as granule form hide glue as well. Like I said, there really is no good reason to through melting down your own hide glue when Luquid hide glue exists. I use nothing but Old Brown, unless I need the water-resistance of TBIII, and have never been let down.

Dave Anderson NH

08-30-2011, 4:13 PM

As has been noted hide glue is reversible and as strong as the PVA glues. I build traditional Queene Anne furniture and feel that it is in keeping with tradition. More importantly, hide glue takes dyes and stains and if you overlook a bit of squeeze out or tiny splotch somewhere it won't stick out like a sore thumb and completely ruin the finish and require you to start over. It also allows you to avoid the hassles of clamping for much of your joinery. Rub joints are easily accomplished. I personally have Old Brown Glue (a liquid hide glue) and my heatable kind in the shop all of the time. For ultimate strength and clampless joinery I use hot hide glue and for down and dirty projects or when I need a longer open time I use the OBG. I do not own a glue pot as such. A $6 mini-crockpot with some water in it and a glass jar with the glue in it suffices for me. I do use a candy thermometer to keep the temperature around 140F which is my prefered working temp. Even with hot hide glue you can effectively increase the open time by either keeping warm or preheating the parts to be joined using a hair dryer. I also like to keep the parts to be joined near the wood stove in the bench room during months when the stove is going. This seems to work out quite well.

Jake Rothermel

08-30-2011, 6:04 PM

daniel lane

08-30-2011, 8:49 PM

I do not use hide glue (yet), but I noticed from the OBG web site that it has a 6mo RT shelf life, 12mo if kept in a refrigerator.

daniel

Jessica Pierce-LaRose

08-30-2011, 9:01 PM

lowell holmes

08-30-2011, 9:14 PM

You mix the glue in water to start the process, and place the water glue mixture in an aluminum can that's had the top cut off. Then the can is placed in an old shallow pot of boiling water until the glue melts and it's ready to go. No glue pots are required.

The glue is reversible and if you put new hot glue in an old joint, it is renewable. There are some jobs that pva glue just isn't appropriate.

If I used the hide glue daily, I would have a glue pot.

Andrae Covington

08-30-2011, 9:34 PM

I don't necessarily want to hijack this thread [but I am]; I do think this might touch on a lot of what you've already posed, Bob. What's the shelf life of something like Old Brown Glue?

I have read recently that yellow glue and other 'traditional' wood glues [ie, the stuff that came AFTER hide glue] have a certain shelf life before it begins to break down in the bottle and becomes less strong. Essentially, that it goes bad, regardless of how it's stored or how much is left in the bottle. Is this true? This was the first time I'd heard of this being a problem with yellow wood glue and I wondered if it carried over to other glues [like hide].

I've thought about trying hide glue many times, partly because of what a lot of you have been saying about it. Something like Old Brown Glue appeals to me; mostly because a glue pot and heating/mixing my own is impractical for me in my current living/shop configuration. Like a lot of us, I don't get a lot of shop time [certainly not as much as I want!]; so it bothers me to think that the otherwise trusty bottle of elmer's I've had up there for a few years might now be "useless."

jake

I do not use hide glue (yet), but I noticed from the OBG web site that it has a 6mo RT shelf life, 12mo if kept in a refrigerator.

daniel

As far as I know, all the liquid glues have a limited shelf life. Generally PVA glues are said to last for about a year. However, just like most expiration dates, the companies are very conservative. A bottle could last a couple years or more, and I believe white glue lasts longer than yellow. If it's thick and stringy or turned into an odd-colored goop, then obviously it's time to throw it out. I don't think the strength is significantly decreased with PVA glues until there are visible signs that the glue is old.

Bob Smalser

08-30-2011, 9:55 PM

I'd like to avoid steering the conversation in a controversial or political direction; so let's avoid discussing the why or why not about something that's a personal choice and simply throw out an answer if you've got one, but while we're discussing hide glue, I am curious if there is a product that performs like hot hide glue but isn't made from animals. I remember reading a thing online a long while ago about a fellow who for religious reasons was manufacturing an animal-free product that was similar, (as well as attempting to make a bug free shellac) but haven't heard anything about it since.

Try urea formaldehyde. "Plastic Resin Glue". It's made from recycling barnyard manure. No hooves, hide and and cartiledge rendered like hot hide glue. No oil consumed like in PVA, epoxy or poly.

http://www.cpadhesives.com/woodworking-adhesives/cp-0503-pre-catalyzed-powdered-urea-resin-1-gallon-bottle

Except for round-tenon joints and chairs, I prefer it over hide glue. Longer open time and more versatile. Authentic for reproductions back to around 1900.

Bill Haumann

08-31-2011, 7:19 AM

I use hide glue because it's more fun for me.I also like it's reversibility (though I haven't had to do so yet), and it's friendliness to finishes.

jamie shard

08-31-2011, 8:50 AM

bob blakeborough

08-31-2011, 8:52 AM

All interesting points for sure! The finishing aspect seems to be one of the more attractive features by many responses on here. That wasn't something I had realized. I would still like to get an idea on open working time experience once brushed on. Is it a matter of a minute, or much more? etc...

I really think I might have to experiment a bit with this and see what kind of results I can come up with...

Dave Anderson NH

08-31-2011, 10:28 AM

For hot hide glue I would use about a minute (literally) for the open time Bob. Again, its is more or less time depending on the temperature of the parts that you are bonding. Parts that are warm or heated will offer you more open time than parts at room temperature (whatever the room temperature is at the time). If the parts are really cool or cold, figure less anything from almost instant gel to about 30 seconds. You are asking a question where the grade of glue, temperatures of the parts, and the glue temp itself are all variables that make a definitive answer almost impossible to give.

As for shelf life on Old Brown Glue, I did some fooling around with a bottle that had some glue in it over 2 years old and still found it usable. I wouldn't recommend using it for anything imprtant and I did not test it against my newer bottle for comparative strength, but it did seem to hold well. Yes, the makers of the glues are conservative in their shelf life estimates. Any other approach and they are courting customer complaints and financial disaster. It's no different than allowing a decent safety factor in an engineering design.

David Keller NC

08-31-2011, 10:36 AM

I've used hot hide glue on a few projects. I feel like I need to rush and soak the joints, then clean up the mess afterwords. As others have said, the fact that it doesn't seal off finishes is really great and necessary for my remedial hide glue skills.

I would be very interested in folks describing how they have used hot hide glue for carcass dovetails. For smaller glue ups, I don't have much problem. For dovetails more than a foot wide, especially the last step when you need to glue both sides, I can't seem to get it together without slapping on the stuff -- or going so slow that the glue begins to gel up a little and some of the the squeeze out is in blobs, not liquid.

That all said, my worst hide glued carcass joint seemed to draw up tight as the glue dried, which was pretty cool.

It's incorrect to think that you must get the joint together before the glue gels, but you do need to get the joint together before the glue dries or gets wicked into the wood. Animal hide glue bonds by losing moisture to the wood and surrounding air, which is why one is advised to wait 24 hours before removing the clamps (on a joint that needs clamps).

However, if you prefer to work with the joint before the glue gels, there's a relatively easy way to do it - you just have to locally heat the 2 halves of the joint before you put the glue on. This is an estimate, but you'll get roughly twice the open time assuming your shop is not below 65 degrees F. The easiest way to accomplish this that I know of is with a heat gun, which is a $30 purchase at a home depot.

David Weaver

08-31-2011, 3:13 PM

George Wilson should have a much better explanation of things.

Bob and others have pretty much wrapped this thread up. I just talked to George, since he was brought up in this thread - he's out of power now, may have it back tomorrow, maybe a day or two after that, but he'll be back when he's able to get online - he wanted me to relay that.

tico vogt

09-01-2011, 7:29 AM

Check out "Hide Glue: Historical and Practical Applications" by Stephen A. Shepherd (http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?page_id=224). He's the man.

Larry Feltner

09-05-2011, 10:11 PM

Try urea formaldehyde. "Plastic Resin Glue". It's made from recycling barnyard manure. No hooves, hide and and cartiledge rendered like hot hide glue. No oil consumed like in PVA, epoxy or poly.

http://www.cpadhesives.com/woodworking-adhesives/cp-0503-pre-catalyzed-powdered-urea-resin-1-gallon-bottle

Except for round-tenon joints and chairs, I prefer it over hide glue. Longer open time and more versatile. Authentic for reproductions back to around 1900.

I have heard good things about UF glues, but I've never tried them. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind. What kind of precautions do you need to take when using UF glues since Formaldehyde is considered a harmful substance? Is UF glue repairable like hide glue, or is it more like a PVA in terms of being able to repair a failed joint down the road? Does it show up in your finish if you don't get all the glue cleaned of the joint like a PVA, or is it transparent like hide glue? I appreciate any additional information you might have on UF glues.

george wilson

09-05-2011, 11:39 PM

Just about all the good points of hide glue have been covered already. [I] use it on instruments where there may be a need to remove tops,backs,or necks for repair in the future. Years ago,Fine Woodworking did a test of glues,and found that the liquid hide glue was stronger than the old hot type.

Some of the most invisible glue lines I have seen on maple are on Wurlitzer harps. Their workmen actually use Knox unflavored gelatin for hide glue. I mean,it really makes a joint that is well nigh invisible on MAPLE,which is saying something.

Mike Henderson

09-06-2011, 12:36 AM

I have heard good things about UF glues, but I've never tried them. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind. What kind of precautions do you need to take when using UF glues since Formaldehyde is considered a harmful substance? Is UF glue repairable like hide glue, or is it more like a PVA in terms of being able to repair a failed joint down the road? Does it show up in your finish if you don't get all the glue cleaned of the joint like a PVA, or is it transparent like hide glue? I appreciate any additional information you might have on UF glues.
UF glues are good but have some drawbacks. All the UF glues that I'm familiar with are two part glues which means you have to mix up the amount of glue you need before you start. So you have to mix more than you need because you don't want to have to go back and mix a new batch during the glue-up process. The powdered UF glue that you mix with water takes some skill to mix so that it's not lumpy.
Second, the glue gives off formaldehyde, not only when you are doing the glue-up but for quite a while afterwards, although the amount is not large. You probably shouldn't use a lot of UF glue in a closed environment.
Third, the glue deteriorates in moist environments. This is probably not a problem for furniture. I have a desk I made in about 1958 with UF glue and it doesn't show any sign of glue failure.
UF glue is not repairable, meaning you can't easily reverse it (take the joint apart). It shows up in your finish, similar to PVA.
On the plus side, UF dries hard so some people prefer it for bent laminations. It has a longer open time than PVA. Some people claim it has gap filling capability but I wonder if it does.

In my opinion, except for certain special applications, I prefer PVA to UF.

Mike

[You can try UF at low cost. Buy a small container of plastic resin glue - DAP Weldwood makes it. You mix it with water and it's dark brown after mixing. It has a shelf life so check the date on the container. It's not used a lot so sometimes the stuff on the shelf is old.]

Brian Kent

09-06-2011, 12:56 AM

Matt,

I have seen the words "rubbed joint" but I do not know what that means. Also, by acoustic translucency, does that mean that it does not change the tone of instruments made with hide glue.

Brian

Pam Niedermayer

09-06-2011, 2:56 AM

...I have seen the words "rubbed joint" but I do not know what that means....

You plane two edges to mate, slop some glue on both, put them together and rub back and forth until they stick.

Pam

Chris Fournier

09-06-2011, 8:05 AM

It's a bit of a misrepresentation to say that hide glue is stronger than... because hide glue can be formulated to any strength. You lose some of the glues other properties when you go for all out strength. Unless you're an instrument maker - particularly of violin family instruments the reversability of hide glue is pretty much just a overhyped selling feature that rarely if ever gets used by the builder.

If you like the idea of hide glue you can easily make rice glue and try that out in your shop - it's pretty fun to stick stuff together with rice.

In the end gluing should follow the KISS principle.

jamie shard

02-15-2014, 5:56 PM

This is such a great thread... I wanted to add on just in case someone wanted to chime in on some investigations I'm doing.

One thing that has confused me is all the different recipes for hide glue. One of the challenges in making sense of them is figuring out if the ratios being described are by volume or weight.

Water is about 236 grams per cup.
Depending on the size/density of the crystals, dry hide glue tends to be about 160g per cup.
In recipes that use salt (for glue that is liquid-ish at room temperature), salt is about 273 g per cup.
Here's my notes on different recipes...

Hot Hide Glue (2:1 by weight)

200g water
100g glue

Soak water and glue overnight, cook, chill overnight. Cut or heat and pour into cubes, wrap in aluminum foil and store in freezer for individual use.

3-2-1 Liquid Hide Glue by volume (pretty close to 2:1:1 by weight)

236 g water (3/3 cups * 236g per cups)
106 g glue (2/3 cups*160g per cup)
91g salt (1/3 *273 g per cup

This version always has un-dissolved salt at the bottom.

3-2-1 liquid by weight (exactly 3:2:1 of course)

150g water
100g glue
50g table salt

Soak water and glue overnight, cook and add salt, chill overnight, cook again – ready for use.

This one also always has undissolved salt at the bottom.

VanEdwards liquid version (about 5:5:1 by volume or pretty dang close to 3:2:1 by weight)

1 cup water (236 grams)
1 cup glue (160 grams)
3 teaspoons tablespoons salt (60 grams)

Or, equivalently:

155g water
100g glue
38g salt

Jamie’s experimental 2:1:10% liquid version

200g water
100g glue
10g salt

NOTE: if salt to glue ration was 10% of total weight (not 10% of glue weight), then it would be 30g which is pretty close to the formula above. The big question is: will 10% keep the glue liquid at room temperature? Answer: no it won't! Next test: try 30g.

It looks like I'm zeroing in on 2:1 by weight for hot hide glue and 200g water, 100g glue, and 30 g salt for liquid.

Daniel Hartmann

02-15-2014, 11:54 PM

I've had to reverse a hide glued joint before and let me tell you, it's no easy task. It took an hour with a damp rag and an iron to get the mortise and tenon to the point I could just barely wiggle it apart. That also gave me a ton of confidence in the performance of the glue. Another huge plus for me is hide glues' ability to bond to its self. I had a drawer divider pop loose in its dado on a finished piece. Had it been glued with pva I would have had to remove the old glue but since it was hide glue I was able to just add more glue.

Anthony Moumar

02-16-2014, 1:48 AM

I use hot hide glue most of the time simply because I find it more fun to use. I don't really see the point of comparing the strength of hot hide glue, liquid hide glue, modern PVAs ect. They're all going to provided ample strength. I got a old cast iron glue pot of ebay for about $20 and use an electric hot plate to heat it which was also about $20. Preparing the glue hasn't been a huge issue for me. I mix the dry glue with water when I start working. It takes about an hour to let it aborb the water and heat up and it's ready to go. I only really have to make up the glue once or twice a week. If I have glue left over at the end of the day I cover it and put it in the fridge. I find it lasts about 5-7days before it starts to lose its tackiness.

Ive only ever had to reverse the glue once and it's not something I would want to do again. I don't think most people making furnature would have to reverse glue that often for it to be a big advantage. The short open time can be annoying sometimes but I generally not an issue. Sometimes I use a heat gun to heat up the workpieces if I'm doing a more complex glue up. I use 192GS hide glue and I usually have about a minute of open time or two minutes if I heat the wood. The two main reason why I like it better is that it's easier to spread than PVA and it won't ruin the finish if I neglect to clean up some squeeze out.

Glen Johnson

02-16-2014, 7:26 AM

I would also add my two cents. I like having it around for veneering small pieces. It is much easier to hammer veneer a piece than to haul out the veneer press. I also like that it gets tacky fast and that I can hold a couple of small pieces together until the glue sets in a few minutes. Then I can set it down and let it cure. I have a small crock pot with three heat settings. I also have it on a timer so that if I forget to turn it off, it wont overheat. I put a cup of hide glue in water in the crock pot and turn it on when I am in the shop. This work well in the winter when I do most of my woodworking. The hide glue keeps well in the cold shop. When the weater warms up, the hide glue will go bad quickly if it is left out. I also keep a bottle of Titebond around.

John Coloccia

02-16-2014, 8:19 AM

In the guitar world, Titebond's Liquid Hide Glue has been tried over and over and over and over again, and it's served up failure after failure after failure. Yes, we all know about the expiration date...that's not the problem. There's very little joinery on a guitar. We depend on TIGHT joints, and glue performance. Other than the neck joint, every joint on a guitar is either edge joined, a lamination or a scarf. That's it....no m&t, no dovetails, no lap joints...no real joinery of any kind. If it's going to fail, we'll see it. It does and we do, and it happens so often that it's almost become kind of an inside joke. When a beginner announces he's going to use it we all just kind of shake out heads and snicker and then try to discourage him. We also try not to say "we told you so" when summer time comes along and the guitar starts falling apart.

Old Brown seems to do better. One glue that's gained some traction is fish glue, because of it's long open time. Good for bindings and other time consuming procedures, but more sensitive to moisture and it can make a stringy, tacky mess as it sets up.

I think too much is made about the process of hide glue, though. It's just not that hard. Mix it up a little thick. Stick it in the glue pot...add water to taste. You'll have to keep on adding a little water during the day anyhow. It's just not that critical, though. I don't mix in any salt, but if I need a little extra time I do pre-heat my parts with a heat gun. That can buy you a good amount of time.

Mike Henderson

02-16-2014, 12:11 PM

Authentic for reproductions back to around 1900.

The first industrial production of UF glue for the woodworking industry was in 1931 by BASF in Germany. It probably was not commonly used in factory furniture until a few years later.

Mike

bob blakeborough

02-16-2014, 12:30 PM

Old Brown seems to do better. One glue that's gained some traction is fish glue, because of it's long open time. Good for bindings and other time consuming procedures, but more sensitive to moisture and it can make a stringy, tacky mess as it sets up.

I think too much is made about the process of hide glue, though. It's just not that hard. Mix it up a little thick. Stick it in the glue pot...add water to taste. You'll have to keep on adding a little water during the day anyhow. It's just not that critical, though. I don't mix in any salt, but if I need a little extra time I do pre-heat my parts with a heat gun. That can buy you a good amount of time.A good friend of mine who builds violins, violas, cellos, etc says exactly the same thing. He mixes his own hide glue and also uses fish glue. He convinced me to try the fish glue and I now have a bottle in my fridge but have yet to give it a go.

Matt Lau

02-17-2014, 9:28 PM

Since posting, I've moved to cold, foggy SF.

One of the local luthiers (Brad Heinzen) pointed me to fish glue...and I quite like it. Another has pointed me to titebond i.

I greatly prefer hot hide glue for braces--easy repairability. I've had luck with jointing the soundboard and back. Also, the bridge.

I don't like it for stuff where it'll take a while to setup--especially where rite bond works better--bindings, neck laminations, fretboard.

I don't build much though.
It'd be nice to try venering sometime.