Irene hits NJ & I got lucky, what generator should I buy for my house?

[dennis thompson]

Irene did no damage to my house, I was very lucky. My son was not so lucky, his power went out & basement flooded. So I'd like to get a generator for my house. I don't know much about them but I do know I'd like it to run on natural gas, turn on automatically & run the sump pumps, furnace (it's gas), refrigerator, some lights & the gas stove (it uses electric for lighting, guess I could light manually) & maybe a few other outlets for radio, computer, TV etc.
Does anyone have any experience with these, can you recommend a specific brand, specific size? Any other thoughts? Any idea of installed cost?
Thanks
Dennis

[Curt Harms]

I don't know much about them but I've had the same thought so I'll be watching this thread. One thing that concerns me is running microprocessor-based equipment - and what isn't today - on "dirty" power from a generator. Will cheapo generators kill/shorten the lives of radios, TVs, DVRs, PCs and such? Even our plain-jane furnace from the mid 90s has a couple PC boards in it. I've read where inverter based generators are better. Don't know what there's to it.

[Joe Bradshaw]

Dennis, I had a whole house generator installed a couple of years ago. I have not lost power since(lol). I went to the BORG for mine. They in turn, contracted the setup to an electrical company. I had the company rep come to my house an we determined what my needs were. Mine runs on propane. It starts once a week to test everything and runs about 10 - 15 minutes and then shuts off. It is definitely not a harry homeowner job. Good luck.

[David G Baker]

Honda Inverter is the one I have and it is designed to run electronic equipment. They aren't cheap but well worth the money when you need one.

[Randy Rizzo]

My brother installed a 10KW NG powered unit and it saved his butt and several of his neighbors when they lost power for 4 days in the huge power outtage that hit the Chicago area recently. One thing he had to do that anyone contemplating a NG powered unit needs to consider, is your gas meter capable of supplying the the requirements of all intended equipment. In his case it was not, the gas company had to come out and change the meter. At the time he did it it was a freebie. Since I'm in the process of doing the same install I contacted the gas co., it's now a labor charge if the meter needs to be changed. You will need to supply them with the input BTU's for all the NG equipment you intend to keep powered. Furnaces, oven, cooktop, dryer, gas fireplaces, and of course the standby generator. Since he is/was (now retired) an electrician he did his own install, but still had to have a qualified factory rep come out and do the startup to verify the install and activate generator warranty. I know of one guy who had his unit installed by a local handyman, they did the test procedure themselves, had fire and smoke coming out of the electrical outlets!

[dave toney]

I used 2 generators during the outage from Irene, about 36 hours.
I have a pto driven generator that runs from my tractor and a transfer panel that disconnects the circuits from the regular panel box, I use this for powering the well pump, refrigerator, freezer etc.
I only run the tractor for about 20 minutes at a time every couple of hours to keep the cold stuff cold and the water coming.
I use a very small 1200 watt generator that runs most of the time to power a few lights and the television.
I live in a rural area and there have been times that the powers has been out for a week or more and running the big generator all the time uses a lot of fuel, about a gallon an hour, which can get very expensive after a few days.
The small generator uses less than a quart of fuel an hour.
It is a bit different, but running a 6 to 10 Kw generator all of the time when only a fraction of the current is needed is expensive.
A battery bank and inverter would probably help with efficiency.
Dave

[Andrew Pitonyak]

First, you need to determine what you desire to power. This will determine the size of the generator that you require. My preference is to use a generator sufficiently large that it can run the entire house so I can simply not worry about it. I will not consider extra equipment such as the table saw as something that I need to run. If it is running and I lose power, I can power down that equipment before the generator kicks in. if I am away from home when I lose power, however, I want it to simply be handled.

You require a transfer switch to handle the load. If you do not wire in everything, then the portions that are covered must be broken out from those that are not.

My Father uses a Kohler.... I might prefer the Generac.

Sometimes the larger engine will run slower, for a longer expected life, generating less noise, and even using less gas. You will pay more for this, however.

At the end of the day, I expect that you will hire a company based on who is available and you have a reason to trust, and then you will simply use the brand that they install and support.

[Scott T Smith]

Irene did no damage to my house, I was very lucky. My son was not so lucky, his power went out & basement flooded. So I'd like to get a generator for my house. I don't know much about them but I do know I'd like it to run on natural gas, turn on automatically & run the sump pumps, furnace (it's gas), refrigerator, some lights & the gas stove (it uses electric for lighting, guess I could light manually) & maybe a few other outlets for radio, computer, TV etc.
Does anyone have any experience with these, can you recommend a specific brand, specific size? Any other thoughts? Any idea of installed cost?
Thanks
Dennis

Yes, I have experience with this.

Your actually running load will probably be around 5000 watts; however you need enough surge capacity to handle the start-up current on the sump pump. Most likely you will need something in the 7500 - 10K watt range.

You will need to separate the circuits that you want on the generator to a sub-panel, and the feed from the main panel to the sub-panel needs to go through an automatic transfer switch (ATS). The price of the ATS is related to how much current it is designed to handle; if you go the sub-panel route you should size the ATS based upon the generator capacity, as well as the combined load of the sub-panel. If you don't opt for the sub-panel, you will need an ATS capable of handling your entire house's service, which is typically either 200A or 400A. A 200A ATS typically costs somewhere between $1,600 - 2,400.00. A 50A version cost much less... These prices are for hardware only - not installation.

Generac is a popular, but inexpensive generator that does not have the best reputation amongst professional commercial and industrial generator supply companies. Back when I was responsible for a large fleet of telecom standby generators (multiple brands), we experienced 3x - 5x more failures with the Generacs than any other brand. Most of the problems were some little widget that broke, but the bottom line was that they had the most downtime by far. You will notice that many of the rental yards do not use Generacs - there is a reason for this...

As another example, my neighbor has 7,500 watt Generac purchased from Home Depot that he is very proud of (i'ts about 3 years old). The third time that he started it the starter failed, 40 hours into an outage a year ago an oil sensor failed, and this weekend when we checked it's output the frequency drops with the load (it dropped down to 55 cycles when we had 5000 watts on it. Unfortunately, the price competition that Generac has placed on Onan and Kohler has forced them to start reducing product quality as well, but their units typically have a better reputation amongst pro's than Generac.

The lower the motor RPM's, typically the higher quality (and longer lasting) the generator will be. 1800 rpm units are typically more durable (albeit more expensive) than 3600 rpm units.

You are wise to choose natural gas to power the unit, as well as an automatic transfer switch to keep it exercised on a regular basis (most installations exercise for 15 minutes weekly, although you can probably go every other week w/o much risk).

Definitely stay away from the Chinese generators - they have a long way to go in terms of quality and reliability.

When you're searching for a supplier/installer, try to find a company that specializes in generators, and has been in the industry for a decade or more. They will have been around long enough to separate the marketing "hype" from the reality when it comes to brands, options and dependability.

Some of the better brands include Cummins Onan, Kohler, and MQ Power (also called Multiquip). Baldor makes a decent, small generator, but it is not in the same league as their electric motors (at least it wasn't 6 years ago when I toured their manufacturing facility).

[Jim Laumann]

I've got a 6KW gasoline powered unit. We got it back in 1991 when we had a nasty ice storm over Halloween - we were out for 6 days, 6hrs before the power came back. The unit will handle our well, heat (LP gas fired boiler), refrig/freezers, sump pump, microwave, and some lights - it does not have enough oomph for the entire house. That said, we have to 'manage' the power it puts out. We can tell by the sound of the engine when we are loading it - and that sometimes requires turning something off to free up some capacity. We don't use the TV/computers when we are on the generator - the power isn't as clean as that from the power company.

We have had an occasional outage since '91, but nothing as bad since (2 days max). The generator has a 11hp Honda engine (a very sweet running/starting unit), w/ a low oil sensor, recoil starter. I don't like the gas tank - it's small, a tank of gas lasts about 2-2.5 hours. It puts out 110/220V power.

If you are going to to it (make a purchase of a unit), think of it as an insurance policy. After our region got over the shock of the '91 storm, I can't tell you how many units were later on sale (used). You will also want to have a transfer panel installed for connecting it to your house.

[Matt Meiser]

When we converted to NG last year we had plumbing run for a generator and had our meter sized for a 20KW generator. Since then we've had a number of unexpected expenses and put the generator on hold but we've also realized that we don't really NEED a 20KW unit which would run our whole house like we hadn't even lost power. Instead, we'll probably go with about a 12KW unit powering selected circuits. Even the 12KW unit is cable of starting and running our heat pump/AC unit with the new "smart" transfer switches that do automatic load shedding. Wiring-wise the transfer switches that do selected circuits are easier for a DIY install because you aren't dealing with the large conductors between the meter and panel, which in my case are only about a foot long and would require running conduits on the outside of the house because there's no room near the meter to mount a transfer switch and the wiring goes from the meter through a short conduit directly into the panel on the other side of the wall in our laundry room.

I figure if we run our well, sump pumps, furnace, heat pump, fridge, freezer, and select lighting circuits we'll be in good shape during even an extended outage.

Even the 5000W portable we have now meets most of our needs with the exception that if I'm not home my wife isn't comfortable operating it and if we are both not home there isn't anyone to operate it. I've also probably had a couple UPS units and a microwave damaged by it before I learned that I shouldn't be running electronics on it.

[Harry Hagan]

My experience is limited to a Coleman gasoline unit powered by a Honda motor. We purchased it three days into a power outage and the power came back on as I was installing the wheels! It sat unused until I loaned it to a friend who ran it about 16 hours until the brushes wore out.

Since then I’ve learned that:


I should have INVESTED in a Honda generator. Honda generators are reliable, quiet, and brush wear doesn’t seem to be an issue. They’re pricey but their owners swear by them.
Buy extra brushes. Even if you buy a Honda generator. If you don’t, get several extra pairs.
Don’t buy Chinese. When I had to buy replacement brushes for my generator, the service technician showed me a room full of Chinese units brought in for repair during a major power outage. He said that some units had LESS THAN TWO HOURS of use when they quit working and that he wouldn’t have any of them because they weren’t reliable!

[Greg Portland]

My Dad has a 15kW+ Cummins (4 cylinder propane engine) and has been very pleased with the performance. With NG, are you running gas in from the street? If you are concerned about the pipes breaking (earthquake, flood erosion, etc.) then a large propane tank may be a better option. I'm also not familiar with how much gas is consumed; you'll want to make sure the pipe supplying your house is big enough.

As far as automatic-on is concerned, there are two options:
1) Generator requires a manual switch to generator power but may start automatically.
2) Generator automatically switched on and over to generator power.

The 2nd option is significantly more expensive, consider having a manual switch if cost is an issue. If you run a light bulb off of the line power you'll know when power gets restored. Note that many generators do NOT include the transfer switch price and these can be $$$!

Consider a used high quality brand. Dad got his generator for $2.5k IIRC (it's over $10k new).

[Jim Becker]

For the near term, I just ordered a 4000w unit to be sure that I can power the sump pump and a few other things, but when I have the money, I'm investing in a whole-house do-jobbie that runs off natural gas. It will connect in right at the meter. Because the power went out so early on Saturday, we lost one of our HVAC systems, one of our hot water systems, the "horsie laundry" and had damage to our well system...all of this flooded with 3.5' of water in the basement of the 250 year old portion of our home. No power = no sump pump. And it's not likely we'll get any kind of insurance settlement. For so long, we talked about getting a generator and put it off. That's going to cost us about $6-8K. This time.