need help from experienced pen turners

[Roger Chandler]

Hi everyone,

I have made 3 pens so far, and have messed up about a half dozen brass tubes that go into the blanks. Question: How long do you let the glue dry before you are able to use the tube trimmer? I seem to get them glued, and then when I go to put them on the mandrel to turn, they won't go on, and the tube comes out of the blank.

The tubes go on fine when new, but I think I am getting some glue inside the tube when I push it in the wood. I thought the pen mill trimmer was supposed to take care of any glue that got inside.

I am using a medium CA glue for putting the tubes in place, and using areosol spray accelerator. I rough up the tubes with 220 grit before putting them into the wood.

Any ideas what I am doing wrong?

[Chris Burgess]

I am not an experience Pen Turner but I have ruined a few. I use thick CA, and a lot of it, with no accelerator and let set over night. When I do mine I will do 10 or more at a time. I also chamfer the brass tubes before placing them on the mandrel just to clean off any burr. As for the tubes coming out I havehad one come out but that was when I disassembled a pen.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Not sure Roger but I had trouble with getting glue in the tubes. I got some sheet wax from Arizona Silhouette that takes care of that problem by just pressing the tube into the sheet wax and it seals the end. When you use the trimmer it knocks out the wax. I also haven't had real good luck with CA and pen tubes. I had let them dry for at least a couple of hours but still didn't do well. I am sure you are taking sandpaper (150 grit or so) and roughing up the outside of the tubes. I use 5 minute epoxy on my tubes now and haven't had a problem since I switched. Epoxy I let the epoxy dry anywhere from a hour to 24 hrs depending how soon I need them.

[Keith Westfall]

+1 on the 5 minute epoxy - have used CA but as far as I remember, I haven't had a failure with epoxy - odd one with CA

Use lots (means makes sure entire tube is completely covered) and if you use a tapered punch (center punch works well) and twist it going in to spread the glue, you don't seem to end up with too much on the inside. (Wipe excess off of punch each time!)

Blank trimmer usually takes care of it...

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I had failures with CA. I have had none since I switched to epoxy.

[Ronald Fox]

I use Gorilla glue and Q-tips to apply the glue to the insides of the blank. I let the glue dry over night and mill them the next day. Seems to work well for me. The glue floams up and seems to help center the tube. You just have to make sure it doesn't poke back out. Just don't get the glue on your fingers or they will turn black, DAMHIK ;)

Ron

[James Combs]

I have used CA from the start and have had very few failures, more about the failures in a minute. I make sure that the tube is completely covered. My method is to apply a small bead of medium CA around the inside of one opening of the blank and sit it down with the beaded end up then grab my roughed up brass and apply a small bead along the length of it except for the last quarter inch (finger hold area). I then pick up the blank which by this time the bead I applied has ran down the inside of the blank (typically I will do 6-8 blanks in a batch), and I insert the tube with a twisting motion working it in and out while twisting 2 or 3 times. then I quickly pick up my insertion tool and flush the brass to the blank.

The only failures I have had are pretty much the opposite of what you describe. On occasion I have not been quick enough with the insertion tool and the glue sets before I can flush it with the blank and the tube never moves again. It doesn't happen very often, maybe one in 50 or so. I have learned to be quick but I will occasionally mislay the insertion tool causing too long of a delay.

As for excess glue in the tubes I have a quarter inch drill bit that I put a handle on and I will run it into the tube maybe a half inch on both ends to clear the glue. The barrel trimmer is just not quite large enough to clear the tubes of glue. The quarter inch bit is an exact fit to a 7mm tube. For larger tubes I find a bit that just fits the inside of the tube if I have a glue problem.

The only pens that I do not use CA on are capped pens like roller balls and fountain pens. On them I use 5 minute epoxy. I tried CA at first but it continues to off-gas even after it has set and I was finding white deposits on the pen quills, both the plastic and metal parts.

BTW even though I am calling these failures in most cases I am able to salvage the blank. I keep extra tubing in stock. I will spray the stuck tube and blank with accelerator to make sure it is set and then cut off the stuck tubing flush with the blank. I then re-drill the blank from the other end until I reach the partial tube, glue in a new tube from the newly drilled end and cut it flush with the blank. When I do the trimming operation on these I will trim to a measured length. I also have to run my clean out drill all the way through these. When turning these blanks I make sure there is a lot of wood over the joint area of the two tube pieces.

[Michelle Rich]

I use a "D" drill..put it on a handle and use it to clean out any glue. I've used all the glues and they all work..just make sure you rough up your brass, and use plenty of glue. (make sure the brass & the hole in the blank are evenly covered.)

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks JD! Your info was so detailed that I got a lot of really good tips from it..........I hope to correct some of my technique issues.............I did not know a 1/4" drill bit would be a fit for the inside of the tubes...........I had wondered about using a drill for clearing CA after it was good and dry last evening when I was back in the house after messing up 4 tubes!

I think one of my problems was I was trying to rush things........maybe only 5 minutes from tube insertion in the blank and then trying to put it on the mandrel and I think the glue was still tacky inside the tube from overspill from the insertion.

I did buy some extra tubes on my order from PSI.........good thing! :o

[Roger Chandler]

I use a "D" drill..put it on a handle and use it to clean out any glue. I've used all the glues and they all work..just make sure you rough up your brass, and use plenty of glue. (make sure the brass & the hole in the blank are evenly covered.)

Thank ya' ma'am!

[Keith E Byrd]

As far as beiing an experienced pen turner - I have now done two - yes 2! Used medium CA on both and waited probably 15 minutes before turning and had no problems.

[Michael Armstrong]

I'll add myself to the 5 minute epoxy side. I gave up on CA when I used to have the same problem James describes - tube part way in and the glue sets. I use sheet was now to seal the tubes butnyou could just cut a thin slice of potato and use it.Michael

[Jim Heikes]

What they said.......I too had the same issues with CA. Virtually never have a problem now with 5 minute epoxy. I use Crayola Magic Clay to seal the ends..........no muss no fuss and reasonably cheap in a 4 lb tub (will last my lifetime......but then again I'm old)

[Brian Brown]

All the advice you have gotten is good. *Just a couple of thoughts... Rough the outside of the tube with 60 or 100 grit. *It is fast, and leaves deeper groves (more surface area) for the glue to stick to. *220 grit is more polishing the tube, and you want it deeply scored. *When you end mill the glued blank, be quick, and don't allow heat to build up from the friction. *Heat will cause almost all glues to release, especially if they are not fully set in the first place. *This is a good hint if you have an expensive blank that you have a bad gluing on, or the tube slips a little, and you want to save the blank. *A little heat will release the tube, and you can try again. *Ken Fitzgerald taught me to use modeling clay in the tube end to keep the glue out, and it works great. *If you do get glue in the tube, just use the solvent for the glue you used on a q-tip, and go swab it out. *This prevents the heat buildup from too much time in contact with the end mill. *Good luck.

[Greg Coleman]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is to measure your tubes before selecting a drill bit for your blank. 7mm does not always mean 7mm. If your blank hole is to big the CA will not expand to fill the gap. Just like flat work, the blank and the tube must be in close contact. That is the beauty of epoxy. It will fill a bigger gap than CA. Be careful too if you use Polyurethane (Gorilla) glue. It will push the tube out of the blank as it expands. I taped the ends with masking tape when I use it.

To clean glue from inside you tubes the best advice is to not let it in. Like others have said plug it with wax, Play Dough, plumbers putty, clay, or what ever works. If you do get a little in there use a brass brush designed for cleaning rifle bores chucked to your drill to clean it out. An exacto knife is a good tool also. I also use a piece of 1/4-20 all thread as a file to loosen big mistakes.

Also I am assuming you are using a wood. If it is an oily exotic you should clean the hole with acetone before using any glue. Swab it out with a q-tip and let it gas off before inserting you tube.

Good luck and I hope this helps.

[Roger Chandler]

Mike, Jim, Brian and Greg.......

Thanks a bunch for the info..........I believe all these to be good tips...........I am learning from reading of your knowledge......I appreciate you taking the time to help someone who is just starting on pens, even though I have done many other kinds of turning.....each kind of project seems to have its own set of rules!

[Rick Gibson]

Any time I have got glue into the tubes it is just at the ends. An exacto knife works well to remove it. Just scrape around the inside of the tube with the knife. Also you don't need to throw the tubes away just because something went wrong. Just turn off the wood down to the tube and re use it.

[Scott J Taylor]

I'd probably check the inside diameter of the hole you drilled on the blank. If it's not the same size of the drill bit (larger) then you have a problem. Potentially you could have some runout on your drill press or drill bit. Roll the drill bit across a flat surface and if it wobbles, then it's time to replace. Just a thought.

[ron hossack]

You'll get a lot of info and everyone has a different way ...

The only blowouts and tubes coming loose have been when I've used epoxy and/or CA.

Since I switched to Loctite Sumo PU glue I've never had a tube come loose from the tube or a piece of wood come off that wasn't adhered to the brass tube because of a bad glue joint.

I can start turning these in 45 minutes.

I personally make sure that I have a good cross-hatch sanded on the brass tube before gluing to make sure the glue can properly adhere to the brass.