Shaper Question

[Chris Fairbanks]

Hi, I am looking at picking up a shaper. I have a bunch of projects around the house, including a kitchen next year that I need to build a lot of raised panel doors for. I have done a fair amount of them in the past on my router table and its just not an enjoyable or accurate process so I wanted to upgrade to a shaper. I have been watching the local craigslist for the last 4-5 months and there just has either not been any machine worth while (old beat-up 3 phase machines which I have no 3 phase power) or one that are people are asking 65-70% of new pricing for and unwilling to budge on them. So with that said it looks like Grizzly has 6 months no interest financing through Bill Me Later that ends August 31st. I have a few small Grizzly tools and a 15" Planer that I put a Byrd head in and they have all been great so far. My problem now is which shaper? I was able to pickup a 1hp Delta Feeder last year on Craigslist for cheap so I have that part of the shaper covered, now its a mater of shaper? I am thinking either the 3hp G1026, the 5hp G5912z or the tiling/sliding 5hp G8622. As I said this will primarily be for raised panel doors but I want to be able to use it for a few doors I would like to build in the future but that will not be its primary use. Is the 3hp big enough or should I go with the 5hp? If I go with the 5hp should I spend the extra ~$1000 and get the tilting/sliding one? Or would you not recommend Grizzly at all? Thanks!

[Paul McGaha]

Chris,

I have a 3 HP Delta w 3/4" spindle I bought from a Creeker a couple of years ago (Hi Hilel if your out there). It's been fine.

I dont plan to replace it but if I did I think I would start my search with the Powermatic 2700. I've read several very positive reviews on it. It's owners seem to love it. Pleasure to own sort of tool.

Just my $.02

Good luck with it.

PHM

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Chris, in my opinion I would go with a tilting spindle sliding table shaper.

I have a Hammer B3 Winner which is an upgrade from The General I had for years/

The first time you need a 22 degree bevel to match some existing profile you'll be happy you bought the tilt feature...........Regards, Rod

P.S. The Grizzly has a forward tilting spindle, which I wouldn't purchase.

http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/video/the-complete-workshop.html

http://www.feldergroupusa.com/us-us/video/hammer-b3-winner.html?videosgruppen_id=0

http://www.feldergroupusa.com/video.php?region=us-us&video_id=1013&videosgruppen_id=&part=2

I've included a few links to videos, worth watching just for the shaper usage, ignore the other stuff...........Rod

[Glen Butler]

3HP is enough to run a raised panel cutter even in hickory, but I can't say its ideal. With my PM25A I had to run the 6" raised panel cutter at 10,000 rpm and the feeder at its lowest setting, which if I recall is ~26 fpm. Technically the cutter should be run at 7,000 rpm and the feeder would be less than 20 fpm, but my feeder can't feed that slow so I compensated by increasing rpm. You will not regret the extra HP, as long as your wallet can handle it.

[David Kumm]

Chris, It isn't just HP but the strength of the spindle assembly and lack of runout that determine the long term quality of the cuts you make. Look at enough machines to determine the differences. Back tilting is better but shapers can be run from either side so for the few times you need the back tilt you can make the front tilt work. If you look at the felder site you will see examples of the spindle assemblies for all their series and get an idea of how wide the gulf is. Then you will have a basis of comparison for whatever you choose. Used shapers are often little used so they should be watched for. Get the best quality first with the slider and tilt being optional. I have all types and use the slider for heavy cope cuts- use about 35%, tilt about 5%, powerfeeder about 65%. Sturdy fence with adjustability is huge. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

Is 3 hp enough? Yes, it will do everything you are presently considering. A 5 hp machine with more robust 1 1/4" spindle will perhaps make a smoother cut and require less sanding, and if the use becomes quite regular the bigger machine would probably last longer. Do you need tilt? I have a vari angle head that let's me do angles from 0 degrees to 90 for flats, I'm not much inclined to play with molding profiles by tilting to save money, I just get knives ground to make what I need. If I had a pocket full of hundreds, I'd probably get a tilting shaper because I like to play with wood toys, but for the work I do it is non essential. You have to answer that one based on needs and budget.Slider? Nice option for larger end grain work, entry doors etc, not necessary for cope and stick cabinet doors, a simple sled jig will do nicely. Griz makes a 5hp non tilt slider a bit cheaper than the tilting option, might make your list.Should you buy grizzly? I haven't used one, but I have used plenty of others. Take a close look at the fences, bad fences on a shaper are just a bear to work with and expensive to replace. The fence on that 3hp griz is the old style powermatic clone, and those were awful IMO. For a few bucks more you could get a nice jet, delta x5', or a bit more still a PM 2700 with a fantastic fence. Food for thought. That fence is the second most important part of the shaper, the first being the spindle assembly. So shop for a fence and see what kind of shaper comes with it!Both mine were used, one delta and the other a Minimax. Had to watch CL for years, but proved to be worth it.

[Jeff Duncan]

My opinion on this is pretty simple...buy the best QUALITY machine you can afford. I would not even consider a budget tilting shaper regardless of name. Sliding tables and their usefulness were just covered this week in another thread. Whether new or used $1k is not going to get you far in the world of shapers. If you can swing the extra $1000 I'd use that money and buy the best straight up no frills shaper you can afford over the accessories. I don't know where your located but very generally speaking you may be able to find a Powermatic 27 in the $1500 - $1800 range. You could likely find a better older industrial shaper in the same price range, but it doesn't sound like that's a path your interested in.

One other thing that may or may not be important to you. If you were to buy a used Delta or Powermatic, you could likely resell down the road for close to what you pay for it. If you have to resell the import you pay full price for, you may not get much for it.

good luck,
JeffD

[Peter Quinn]

Whether new or used $1k is not going to get you far in the world of shapers. JeffDMy Minimax cost me $900 used, the delta $700', both shape wood admirably. The Minimax is one heck of a little machine, though the price I paid for it may not be typical of it's actual value. I though about the used industrial option but being in a basement makes that kind of weight difficult to maneuver down the steps. My point is that given enough time, patience and dumb luck there are some options in the sub $1k range.

[Ed Edwards]

The only advise I can add too the already given, is to decide on the spindle size.
The 3/4" is OK, and this is fine if you stay with Freud, Delta, or the like.
But, the 1 1/4" is the way to go, beware though, the pricing also goes up.
Take a look at the Freeborn Catalog or Moore Profiles. I know Freeborn is online.
In any event good luck and be CAREFUL!!!


;) Ed

[robert morrison]

Don't give up on a 3 phase machine due to the lack of 3 phase power. A VFD will be an economic solution to convert your single phase power to three phase. A VFD to handel up a 3 hp motor will set you back a couple hundred bucks, but a VFD to handel a 5hp is quite a bit more expensive.

Some of the VFD's have no loss in tourque at slower than full rpm speeds. The VFD will also give you variable speeds at the touch of a button rather than by changing belts.:)

Check out local school auctions, or on line auctions suck as IRS to find industrial shapers.

Happy hunting

[Jeff Duncan]

Peter, I'd say you did pretty good on both of those machines. Although I do see Delta's go for less than $1k more often these days, I'm not a big fan of them. I had one in my shop for about a year before I practically gave it away to get rid of it....obviously there are many, many others who don't share my opinion of them;>) I'll bet that Minimax is a sweet little machine though! The key thing I agree with 100% is patience. It's amazing what will show up if you do your homework, keep your eyes open, and have patience!

JeffD

[michael gates]

I would just go with the 3hp griz. The price is good and it will do what you need. A 5hp is nice, but more money. I personally have no use for a tilting shaper and there is better options for coping than a slider so those aren't for me either.

I would not think twice about buying a Grizzly shaper, look at most professionals and you will find Grizzly products make them money every day.

I own a 5hp and a 1.5 and will add a 3hp shortly.