Cherubini's Striking knife

[Peter Cobb]

On the old Popwood site many of the articles were available for free. No longer so, obviously.
Several of those were Adam Cherubini's articles. The first one was on the subject of the striking knife.

206118

It's a concept that made sense to me, so I decided to use one of my batch of discount Stanley 2 3/8 replacement blades to make one following the plan. (The top one is A Cherubini's and the bottom one is based on C Schwarz')

206119

So after a miserable attempt at heating this iron in my woodfire (mental note: running around with a red hot iron from the living room hearth to the shop seems pretty dangerous... better NOT do it... So dumb even I caught on) I drew the outline and decided to have at it with a hacksaw.

206120 206121

Whoops, can't do the inside cut.... drill to the rescue:

206122

Time to clean it, refine it and sharpen it...

206123 206125 206124

Take it for a run... et voilà!

Zis tink werks! It's amazingly comfortable to use. No bevels, rough edges and coarse surface are actually no problem.
I will sand it to a smoother finish and refine the shoulders, make the awl more symetrical. Function is far more important but aesthetic considerations are to be respected.

The length is important as it would impale me while sharpening (in the palm) if it were shorter. (This one is in the 7 " range because of the way I laid it out on the plane iron)

Notable departures from the plan: the central bulge (replaced by a gentle curve to the awl area)

Will update after refining it and using it. I wear shop glasses almost all the time and if I ever scratch them with the awl :eek:, I'll scratch the awl.

One blade down (well half a blade), 5 1/2 to go :cool:.

Cheers,
Peter

[Bob Strawn]

Enco has a very nice one at a reasonable price (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=940777&PMAKA=830-0383), the solid carbide Combination Scriber/Scraper Model #830-0383. It is 6-1'2" long and has a body diameter of 1/4" After buffing it with some fine diamond grit, I have even used the center of this scribe to put a burr on a scraper. For $2.07 each, getting 5 of them is not a bad idea at all.



Bob

[Peter Cobb]

Bob, that looks like a useful thing to have around!
On the other hand I may have given the wrong impression, I only wanted one striking knife. I had 6 replacement plane irons I picked up for cheap, now I have 5 1/2.
Cheers,
Peter

[Tony Shea]

Hey bob, the knife end of the Enco version has the bevel on what side? Can it be used as a right handed tool with a flat side to reference off a straight edge/square? In the picture it looks as if there is a bevel on the face showing which would make it seem for a left handed marking knife. Unless it has no flat side and a bevel on each side.

[Tony Shea]

Oh, and Peter I really like this style of marking knife. The low angle of the cutting edge really is an asset to keep referenced.

[john brenton]

I've wanted to try it out for a while, but haven't had the material or time to make one. I have a few piece of steel that I'd sacrifice, but all too thin.

So, you took the temper off in the hearth...but did you harden it back up again?


Oh, and Peter I really like this style of marking knife. The low angle of the cutting edge really is an asset to keep referenced.

[Bob Strawn]

Hey bob, the knife end of the Enco version has the bevel on what side? Can it be used as a right handed tool with a flat side to reference off a straight edge/square? In the picture it looks as if there is a bevel on the face showing which would make it seem for a left handed marking knife. Unless it has no flat side and a bevel on each side.

I got several versions so I cannot recall specifically on that one. I think it was beveled on both sides, a lot of them had double bevels. Grinder fixed this on the ones that where double sided. Nice thing about solid carbide, it is hard from one end to the next so despite grinding an entire bevel away, the knife still keeps an edge that will mark all but hardened tool steel.

Bob

[Derek Cohen]

Good work Peter! That is a fine knife.

I made a striking knife like this about 10 years ago using a spade bit as the basis. It was bevelled on one side only, set up for right hand use. To be frank, I hated using it. The possibility of poking an eye out or stabing myself was always high. :( I think that it is fine if you wish to pretend that you lived in 1776, but I am sure the cabinetmakers then had other marking knives from which to choose.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Peter Cobb]

sotssI
I've wanted to try it out for a while, but haven't had the material or time to make one. I have a few piece of steel that I'd sacrifice, but all too thin.

So, you took the temper off in the hearth...but did you harden it back up again?

Sorry John,
the metalurgical side of this was a failure.
The file test was almost identical before and after my "annealing" attempt (because of the way I did it there was probably no effect, it cooled off too quickly). It certainly filed easily. If I find it is too soft I'll heat treat it with a gas burner and electric oven.


Good work Peter! That is a fine knife.

I made a striking knife like this about 10 years ago using a spade bit as the basis. It was bevelled on one side only, set up for right hand use. To be frank, I hated using it. The possibility of poking an eye out or stabing myself was always high. :( I think that it is fine if you wish to pretend that you lived in 1776, but I am sure the cabinetmakers then had other marking knives from which to choose.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Derek,

rather chuffed with the result myself. I almost went with your jigsaw blade and handle method (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/A%20Knife%20for%20Marking%20Dovetails.html) (really enjoy inthewoodshop) about 6 months ago, but I had this blade on hand that I'd already messed the heat treatment up, and it suddenly dawned on me and I saw Cherubini's knife layed out on it and Bob's your uncle.

I can understand why it makes people nervous, having an awl tip 2 inches from your eye while focusing 5 inches away can make you doubt (probably safer for farsighted people, myopia could be dangerous).

The setup is exactly as described (right hand use, single bevel) I've been using it today with no mishaps and it does help with layout.
Maybe when I toy with other models it'll fall from grace.

Cheers,
Peter

[harry strasil]

My 2 shopmade favorites.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/markingknives2.jpg

They are both sharpened from one side, the bottom dovetail or swallow tail one is the most used.

[Bob Strawn]

In many cases, I despise tools with double business ends. They can be quite dangerous. This is one of the few tools with two sharp ends that I like. I use it for clean up and detail more than I do for marking, but when I am working metal, this is the first marking tool that I grab. As my vision shifts due to age, I find that I keep my face further from my work to see well, even with bifocal safety glasses. It may be that if I were near sighted, I would like this type of striking knife less. When using it to hand chip, carve and scrape, I love being able to flip between the point and the blade. For glue removal the combination also works brilliantly.

When marking wood, I will use this if it is the closest at hand, but I do prefer a small marking awl or well configured marking knife.

My favorite awl of awl time,

http://toolmakingart.com/images/Penny%20Whistle/Scratch%20Awl%2002.JPG

My favorite Marking Knife,
http://battlering.com/woodworking/images/Marking%20Knives/Marking%20Knives%20Oxpho%201.JPG

I am not about to put either of these tools through the scraping, metal graving, scratching and abuse that I regularly put on the Solid carbide $2.07 Scriber/Scraper (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=940777&PMAKA=830-0383).
My willingness to trust and abuse this tool makes it all the more valuable in actual use. My good striking knife is use carefully as is my good marking awl. This limits their usefulness in many cases.

Bob

[Rob Young]

My 2 shopmade favorites.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/markingknives2.jpg

They are both sharpened from one side, the bottom dovetail or swallow tail one is the most used.

You have shown me these and I've seen them in use but I can't recall the blade material & thickness. Old saw plate?

[Peter Cobb]

My 2 shopmade favorites.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/markingknives2.jpg

They are both sharpened from one side, the bottom dovetail or swallow tail one is the most used.

They look really great Jr., 2 questions: what are the overall dimensions? and do you sharpen the swallowtail inside and outside the V?
I really enjoy your posts.
Cheers,
Peter

[harry strasil]

Rob, the top one is made from a scrap of old one/two man saw blade with a piece of piano wire welded on for an awl.

The Swallowtail one is made from a scrap of handsaw blade. and Peter the inside is not sharpened.

One fellow creeker was smarter than I was and made his Swallow tail marking knife from an old Putty knife.

[Jake Rothermel]

Peter, that looks great! I tried to make one very similar a few years ago from an old paddle bit but failed miserably [mostly, I think, because it was too short to be safe/useful]. It never occurred to me to use an old plane blade! Hmmm.... We DO have a metal-cutting bandsaw in the shop at school...