a small but useful gloat. ( Lee Valley is my wife's arch enemy .... )

[John A. Callaway]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j87/trainman0978/IMAG1058.jpg

This showed up today. I read all sorts of comparisons of this one over the LN version.... Simply put... This one wins. Blade changes are easier, and require less gizmos to do so... The LN requires a thirty something dollar bracket to run the smaller blades, and this one comes with them and requires no adapter.

I can't wait to give it a spin.

All I really need to get my hands on now is a good shoulder plane or two.... and a skew rabbet plane.... And I want... No I shall tell my wife that I need a LN bronze No. 3

But the tool purchase goal for the rest of the calendar year is a 14 inch bad axe filed rip, and a bad axe DT saw....

[Chris Griggs]

Possibly my favorite tool I own - for me, even more essential than a block plane - it's uses seem endless!

Bad Axe saw is a good goal - my next tool purchase goal is a plow plane.

Enjoy your new toy!

[John A. Callaway]

I have the LV plow.... you will love it. I saw on the renaissance wood worker blog yesterday a MP3 audio file of a interview with Thomas Lie-Nielsen, so I listened to it. They have a plow in the works... but I doubt it will be a small plow. It isnt LN's style to come out and deliberately compete with LV ... seeing as how they show up at LN hand tool events together... so I would guess it will be a full size tool, maybe a combo kit.... but , depending on your budget ... you might want to wait and see what surfaces in the next few months.

And bad axe is a good goal. Since I got my 12 inch x-cut , I have been drooling over mark's Facebook pics of his new saws. Those things are like lazer beams with wood handles.

Ya know... I just sat and proof read my post.... And i think for a guy like me who works more than I do anything else.... I try very hard to not be a tool collector, and actually a wood worker. But these days, it seems I buy more tools and work the stuff far less.... maybe work will ease up in the winter and I can get back at it more than a few hours a week...

[bob blakeborough]

I have this myself and LOVE LOVE LOVE it! No regrets what-so-ever on its purchase...

As for Bad Axe, I can't say enough about them! I have the 16 inch Jack, 12 inch DT/Small Tenon and the 10 inch DT. Sooooooo sharp and they feel amazing in the hand! I am just waiting for Mark to build a panel saw...

My next tool plan was for the LV Plow as well, but now I am looking at maybe my first LN Bench Plane in the smaller sized No.1 or No.2 (Whole separate thread... lol)

[Jim Matthews]

A word about using these - the blades are SHARP.

Move slow when changing these.

I have best results when scoring the sides of grooves as I go down to depth.

[Chris Griggs]

I would love a Bad Axe but really want to build my own saws. My next saws will be Wenzloff parts builds. I have two handles mostly made, but seeing as how I just spent all my money on a new set of water stones, I had to put the saw parts on hold. Luckily my B-day is just a couple months away.

[Chris Griggs]

I have the LV plow.... you will love it. I saw on the renaissance wood worker blog yesterday a MP3 audio file of a interview with Thomas Lie-Nielsen, so I listened to it. They have a plow in the works... but I doubt it will be a small plow. It isnt LN's style to come out and deliberately compete with LV ... seeing as how they show up at LN hand tool events together... so I would guess it will be a full size tool, maybe a combo kit.... but , depending on your budget ... you might want to wait and see what surfaces in the next few months.



In all likelihood it will be modeled very closely after a vintage design. I wonder which one? I could see LN doing something simple like record 043 or 044, but in bronze. I wonder if they would do a combo plane...

[John A. Callaway]

I am not sure... the guy doing the interview tried to wiggle it out of him... but of course... he remained a little vague... He ( LN ) did say that the list of tools he would like to build is rather long... so who knows... but yeah... I am also thinking a 043 or 044 type plane as well.... I sorta thought they would of paired up with that father and son team that makes the plow that Schwarz is so fond of.... but LN doesnt make but a few tools out of all wood... And I think a solid bronze tool of that size and complexity would be rather pricey to produce... not to mention the size of the price tag.

As for the router plane itself.... I played around with it here in the den just getting familiar with it.... Guys... we are truly lucky to be in this hobby this day in time.... new tools like this didnt exist twenty years ago... This stuff that LV and LN and some others are making are truly fully functioning works of art.... plain and to the point... but compared to the way the old stuff was made , even just going to ductile iron is a big step up.

I do.... I love the tools, new and old, the wood, the forum... the blogs, the magazines... all of it... There is always some tool to want, some new article to read, some new technique to learn, and plenty of people willing to share the knowledge.

[Mark Wyatt]

I love to see LN do an update of the Miller's Patent planes.

[Steve Friedman]

All I really need to get my hands on now is a good shoulder plane or two....

John, I like your thinking, but curious why you would choose to get a router plane before a shoulder plane. I had a shoulder plane next on my buy list because I think I would use it more often than a router plane. Just curious about your thought process.

Steve

[John A. Callaway]

well.... as far as mortise and tenon work goes....cause you can set another board of the same thickness next to the board with a tenon on it .... and make a flat level surface for the plane to ride on... there by using the router plane as a shoulder plane...

People use shoulder planes to cut rabbets, but for now.... I can use the plow.... or if need be ... ( warning cussing ahead ) ... I can use the dado stack on the table saw to make a rabbet... because I actually plan to try cutting my dadoes by hand next time I start a project that calls for them.... those that are too far into a panel for the plow to reach anyway.

Other than that... I just know from the three big projects I have done so far.... I have needed a router plane for more things than I needed a shoulder plane for... so I went with it first. Both tools are extremely useful... and have things they are great at, things they can be coaxed into doing... and things they just shouldnt really be used for... so ... I will have a shoulder plane at some point ( probably two, the 1/2" wide LV and the 1.25" LN ) so I guess its just a toss up as to which one YOU think you will get more use out of immediately , and which one you can hold off buying for a while.

[Steve Friedman]

... I will have a shoulder plane at some point ( probably two, the 1/2" wide LV and the 1.25" LN ) so I guess its just a toss up as to which one YOU think you will get more use out of immediately , and which one you can hold off buying for a while.

That's interesting. What is it about LV vs LN that makes you lean toward LV for the smaller one and LV for the larger. I have played with both an am probably too much of a novice to appreciate the differences, but just wondering what your thinking is.

Thx

Steve

[Mark Dorman]

I have the same router plane and use it alot you will get good results with it. I do use it to clean up tennons as John Callaway mentioned.
As far as shoulder planes go when I think I need one I remind myself of something I read from a Schwarz article and then work harder on my sawing.

Here it is.

“Mr Klausz,” the guy said. “You and other woodworkers from Europe don’t seem to use shoulder planes. Why is that?”Without even a pause to ponder, Klausz responded. “I don’t need them. I cut my tenons right the first time.”

[John A. Callaway]

Steve, I like the size and shape of the smaller LV shoulder plane.... its a bigger version of the tiny 1/4" wide one they make... I have it... its a neat, small functional, but SMALL tool... But it shows the build quality ( of course ) of the larger one... The LN 1/2" shoulder is a infill type and while very pretty , and bronze.... I don't know... It just doesnt call to me for another thirty dollars more than the LV that is all steel.... The next in line is the LN 5/8" which is a good size , but the width is too big to fit into a half inch channel to clean out with it.... but to be fair... the router plane can do that task just the same... I guess for smaller work the 1/2" would be easier to yield than the big 1.25 inch plane....

As far as the LN over the LV in terms of the big shoulder plane.... I think the LN wins out in fit and finish... and I know the LV is a solid tool.... But I dont like the little tabs that stick off of it... I am sure they are functional and help to keep the tool down and forward in the work.... but I don't know.... I think the LN is just a nicer tool .... As far as function of one versus the other... I dont know... I have yet to hold either tool... I think I will get the small LV first since I feel pretty safe in my choice.... see how it handles as far as how hard it is to push... or any shoulder plane work that is.... and then try to decide if the leverage is needed or if the shear mass of tool is all you need beyond a good grip...

[Derek Cohen]

These two articles may help.

The first one is about M&T joints and the tools used. It features the router plane near the end: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice.html


The second is a review of the small Veritas shoulder plane but is also discusses the different sizes: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasSmallShoulderPlane.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Shea]

I think a router plane is one of the most important and useful planes that exist, much more so than a shoulder plane! A shoulder plane is lousy at creating a surface that is parallel to another surface, which is what a good tenon should be. The cheeks of the tenon should be as perfectly parallel to the face of the stock as humanly possible, and there is really no other tool out there to do this better than a router plane. The router plane also does great with half lap joints, cleaning or making dado's, and many other incredibly useful tasks. I would be lost without mine, although I do wish I had gone with the LV version as opposed to the LN version. There are way more blade options with the LV.

Creating a clean shoulder without a shoulder plane is very easily doable with a wide chisel and a nicely scored baseline. I used to cut my shoulder fat of the line with a crosscut saw and pare the baseline with a chisel, creating a very small backcut as to make sure that nothing prevents the fit from being very tight. Just as you would chop/pare your baseline of a dovetail.

IMO, the router plane should be the absolute FIRST specialty plane you buy!!!

[Chris Griggs]

I think a router plane is one of the most important and useful planes that exist, much more so than a shoulder plane! A shoulder plane is lousy at creating a surface that is parallel to another surface, which is what a good tenon should be. The cheeks of the tenon should be as perfectly parallel to the face of the stock as humanly possible, and there is really no other tool out there to do this better than a router plane. The router plane also does great with half lap joints, cleaning or making dado's, and many other incredibly useful tasks. I would be lost without mine, although I do wish I had gone with the LV version as opposed to the LN version. There are way more blade options with the LV.

Creating a clean shoulder without a shoulder plane is very easily doable with a wide chisel and a nicely scored baseline. I used to cut my shoulder fat of the line with a crosscut saw and pare the baseline with a chisel, creating a very small backcut as to make sure that nothing prevents the fit from being very tight. Just as you would chop/pare your baseline of a dovetail.

IMO, the router plane should be the absolute FIRST specialty plane you buy!!!

I am in 100% agreement with this post. I've said it before in regards to my router plane and I'll say it again.... "from my cold dead hand!".

[Phillip Ngan]

I too have this LV router plane, and really love it. The blades are very sharp. My favorite one is the wide flat edge. I machine cut my mortises, and hand tune my tenons within one thousandths of an inch for a perfect fit. There are only a couple of tools in the wood shop that allows precision adjustments, the thicknesser and this router plane: and they happen to work together for making precise tenons. It's a pleasure to use.

[Dominic Greco]

That's a great plane and one of my favorites to use.

making a groove for a door panel
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z287/DominicGreco/cuttinggroove3.jpg

Tweaking the tenon
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z287/DominicGreco/sizingtenons.jpg

[Matt Lau]

That looks like the bigger one.

I'm interested in buying one too, for the specific purpose of cutting trussrod slots for guitar necks (long dados).
Would the LV Router plane with the fence be useful in such a situation? Or would it be better to just get a plow plane?

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I'd suggest a plow for those situations; although it depends if you're going with an stopped or open groove for your truss rod. I prefer the modern, double-action rods that lay in a simple flat groove - (no bowing needed like a single action rod) and I make my grooves before applying the fingerboard or headplate on the guitar. If you're doing a fender-style truss rod installation where you're doing a long channel that is stopped and met by a drilled hole, a plough plane is going to have some difficulty, stopped grooves are not it's forté - you'll be doing a fair amount of chiseling to make clearance for the skate of the plow plane. It excels at hogging away material, however. I've never found quick material removal to be a router planes strong suit, although it looks like Dominic's photo speaks otherwise.

[Mike Brady]

You might want to take a peek at the the Facebook pages for Lie-Nielsen. Look through the photos for the "LNTW Dealer Training". In one photo a man is holding what at first looks like one of the #48-49 T&G planes, but is actually a plow plane. Don't hold your breath, though.

[Tony Shea]

Wow Mike, good eyes. Not sure if you're exactly right in your assumption that it isn't either a 48 or 49 but you seem to have a good idea somehow. I will garuntee you that I will own that plane the instant it's released. I have been holding off on a plough plane as the good ones are above my budget, close to or above $1000. Very exciting if it's true. Wish the would husstle a bit though, seems as though they take their time releasing new tools. Especially compared to the competition such as LV.