Why do most woodworkers deal with using electric random orbital sanders?

[Nick Sorenson]

I have been using a Dynabrade Silver Supreme for the last year or two and it's a great tool. It's smooth as silk, quiet, sands beatifully and quick and never makes my hand sore or even numb. I just picked up a Ridgid (Metabo) 2610R and it's nice in terms of electric sanders. Pretty smooth and pretty quiet and so far I think it sands reasonbly well. But the air tool version (at least the dynabrade) is so much better. It's MUCH lighter (as in probably less than a quarter of the weight). It's 6" and easy to hold in one hand where the Ridgid is much easier using two hands. It is just as quiet (I will give the Ridgid credit, it is quiet). But most importantly to me, I can sand curves much easier with the Dynabrade. I can really do much except flat areas with the Ridgid due to it's size and the handle. I was thinking about trying the Festool ROS's but it's also pretty big. The Silver Supreme is small. I guess I had the Ridgid pretty built up because of what I'd read. It's not bad but seems like an air tool is a lot more useful. At least that's what I've found. I would think the one or two advantages would be cost related with saving electricity and not having to have a big compressor and portability. But beyond that, I don't know why anyone would want an electric random orbital sander. Not knocking anyone for using an electric, but I do wonder why they're so popular.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Most people have electricity and not everybody has an air compressor big enough to drive air tools other than a nailer, stapler, etc.

[Nick Sorenson]

Most people have electricity and not everybody has an air compressor big enough to drive air tools other than a nailer, stapler, etc.

That makes sense. And the upfront cost of a big compressor isn't cheap I suppose. There are a lot of tools that can run off of a pancake compressor but at this point in technology a DA sander is not one of them.

[David Kumm]

Once you get spoiled with an air sander or do some spraying, a 5hp compressor starts to feel as necessary as a tablesaw. Of course that leads to a dryer, and grinders, vacuum bags, pneumatic clamps and before you know it you are old. Dave

[Wayne Hendrix]

I agree with that. Right now I live in a townhome and dont have the space or the money for a compressor capable of running an ROS. Also the noise associated with the compressor would be worse than any noise of the sander. When I live someplace that will allow it I will get a compressor and switch many things to air powered.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I have a 26 gallon......rated 5 HP but it's probably 2.5 HP single stage oil lubricatd compressor. I bought a little Grex 2" sander for use on my lathe. It turns out there was a mistake in the advertisement and my compressor cycles to keep up with it. It works well but I still use my electric one for furniture sanding.

[Nick Sorenson]

I have an Air General 2 stage 5HP 60 Gallon (US Made sold by Harbor Freight) and it keeps up just fine but it's running at least 50% of the time sanding. I had the cheap blue plastic HF air orbital sander and that used a LOT more air than the Dynabrade. So I think mileage may vary depending on the tool as far as air consumption. The blue cheap sander from HF made the compressor run 100% of the time the tool was being used and it was more vibration than the ridgid. But the size was still smaller and a little easier to control for sanding curves and edges. I can see where if I had to use electric I'd probably prefer the control of a 5" sander.

[Cary Falk]

I don't own one but this is my list that has prevented me from looking into them(right or wrong as they may be).

1)Noise. Every air tool I have ever owned or heard is loud. Then there is also the compressor makes.
2)Dust collection(does an air sander have a dust port?)
3)Hose. A compressor hose is much mor bulky to haul around then a cord.
4) Compressor. Nor everybody has a big enough one to power a sander.
5) Oil. Air tools need to be oiled. Every high rpm air tool I have ever seen or used was oily and spit a small amount of oil out at some point. I don't want that on my wood.

[johnny means]

I choose electric because running a 5hp compressor while I sand would make my monstrous electric bill much worse. A smaller compressor is terribly inefficient for running tools.

[Mike Henderson]

I choose electric because running a 5hp compressor while I sand would make my monstrous electric bill much worse. A smaller compressor is terribly inefficient for running tools.
Also the noise. Compressors are NOISY. Unless you've got one that's really quiet or you have space to build a soundproof room for the compressor, you'll be working in a loud environment. They also take a lot of electricity, as Johnny said. To do the same sanding with a ROS you'll use a lot less electricity.

Mike

[Joe Calhoon]

We used air sanders in our shop for 20 years going through a few compressors till we got a Kasser and noticing the cost when the price of electricity got expensive.A couple years ago we switched to Festool 150s with their vac. Couldn't be happier, clean, quiet and a lot less cost. Air sanders are more aggressive but we have a good WBS so most orbit sanding is light. I like the effective dust pick up of the Festool sander. We tried the 125 sander but did not like that one.

Joe

[Kevin Stricker]

If you want the convenience of an electric sander with the feel of an air sander then check out the Mirka Ceros. I have a bunch of Festool sanders but the Ceros is hands down the best sander I have ever owned. Lightweight and plenty powerful, it will give a Rotex a run for its money and blows any of the ETS sanders away.

[Rick Fisher]

I just added this to my shop.. Not even wired up yet.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Compressor2.jpg

Festool makes an air sander which is supposed to have great dust collection, once I get the compressor running, I will likely try one.

There are electric sanders, and then there are electric sanders.. I have 2 x Festool ETS sanders and they are the nicest I have ever used. Having said that, I will definately try a decent air sander with good dust collection.

[Peter Quinn]

For me its a simple equation. Air sander =Big compressor+big noise+big money. Card scraper=less noise/no air/not much money. At work I use dynabrades exclusively, and I like them, but at home in the basement its problematic. I have a 60gal compressor with 15 CFM's but the air sanders hog enough air that it runs quite a bit, I mostly sand at night in the back corner of my shop after children are in bed, and a booming compressor is maybe not the best lullaby?

I see this mirka DC variable speed sander that has the foot print and weight of a pneumatic but apparently less vibration. It not cheap but might be a good option for those seeking air type experience without the big compressor issues and that pneumatic sander "whine". Anyone used one of those?

[Nick Sorenson]

I see this mirka DC variable speed sander that has the foot print and weight of a pneumatic but apparently less vibration. It not cheap but might be a good option for those seeking air type experience without the big compressor issues and that pneumatic sander "whine". Anyone used one of those?

I just checked that out. Looks great! I had heard about that from an autobodystore (actually that's the name of the store). He said it was supposed to be a great product. The size looks small like a Dynabrade. That's appealing right away. The price tag isn't but I'd doubt Mirka actually makes that sander. I know AirVantage makes the Mirka air sander in Asia somewhere. So that means that there will be competition for a small DC sander soon enough and the price will come down. When they're $250-$350, I will be more tempted to buy one.

Card scrapers are a life saver for flat objects.

[Trent Shirley]

I thought my compressor was fairly large but it gets overheated just getting the tank up to pressure.
Running constant flow air tools is way out of my reach despite how much space this thing takes up in my shop.


Most people have electricity and not everybody has an air compressor big enough to drive air tools other than a nailer, stapler, etc.

[glenn bradley]

Some of us also just don't power sand enough to deal with the noise, real estate and so forth that an air tool requires. In situations where that sort of work is done though, I definitely prefer air power; just not in my home shop. We all do things differently, eh?

[michael gates]

I love my Dynabrade, they are quick and do an amazing job. Very small and comfortable to use.
I used to use electric Festools but not no more. My Dynabrade hooks to my vac and works great. I also have a brand new Festool air sander sitting in the box. I dont have a lot of interest in using it since its so much bigger than the Dynabrade (taller)

[scott vroom]

I own a Porter Cable 390K 5" ROS. It's big, heavy,and is the best ROS I've ever owned. It also has excellent dust collection. It's massive size and weight are an added bonus: My hand and grip are much stronger for having "worked out" with this beast. It's a workout I'd never get with those lightweight sanders :p

[Glen Butler]

I don't own one but this is my list that has prevented me from looking into them(right or wrong as they may be).

1)Noise. Every air tool I have ever owned or heard is loud. Then there is also the compressor makes.
2)Dust collection(does an air sander have a dust port?)
3)Hose. A compressor hose is much mor bulky to haul around then a cord.
4) Compressor. Nor everybody has a big enough one to power a sander.
5) Oil. Air tools need to be oiled. Every high rpm air tool I have ever seen or used was oily and spit a small amount of oil out at some point. I don't want that on my wood.

Doesn't the fact you don't own one make your list invalid?

1)Electric ROS's are just as loud as a pneumatic. Yes, the compressor can be loud, but mine is in a separate room.
2)Those stupid dust ports are a gimmick. You should always sand with a mask and/or a draft table.
3)Not a 1/4" air hose. They are the same bulk wise, but lighter.
4)Agree. But they should. They are a lot quieter than pancake or other small compressors.
5)Learn to use the right amount of oil. Problem solved.

[David Kumm]

Dynabrade makes a vac hose that has an integral air line and very flexible. Multiple sizes and orbits are helpful, although available with electrics as well. Electrics might operate as well but not better and for anyone who buys used equipment or does some metal working in addition, the compressor is all ready a mandatory item. The compressor is loud but so is everything else and the ear muffs go on with the RPC, DC and the first machine anyway. Dave

[David Keller NC]

But beyond that, I don't know why anyone would want an electric random orbital sander. Not knocking anyone for using an electric, but I do wonder why they're so popular.

Can't answer about a professional shop, but most on the forum are amateurs (in the sense that we don't make a living building stuff in the workshop).
The dynabrade = $190, plus about $150 - $350 for a compressor to run it. Most electric ROS - around $80 - $100. One has to remember that most amateur WWs are (ahem) -frugal-

Granted, power-sanding anything in a woodshop is pretty stupid when there are far better and faster tools available. But those are non-powered hand tools, and there are many, many folks that look down upon a tool without an electric motor.

[Cary Falk]

Doesn't the fact you don't own one make your list invalid?



No. Most people that don't use one probably don't have one. It could be that they believe air sanders have the same problems I do. As for Dust ports being a gimmic, I call it garbage. I have one on my 6" Makita and it works great hooked to a shop vac.

[Kevin Stricker]

[QUOTE=Glen Butler;1766202]Doesn't the fact you don't own one make your list invalid?


2)Those stupid dust ports are a gimmick. You should always sand with a mask and/or a draft table.


Sorry Glen but this statement tells me you have not used a real RO sander optimized for dust extraction, making your statements equally...um...invalid?

You should at least sample the water before throwing out the baby, you never know what you are missing until you do.

Sure you could not hook your sander to a vac and get 95+% extraction and rely on your DC and air filters to clean the air. But then you are throwing away money as your paper will last about a 1/4 as long as when you have good extraction at the source. You are also wasting energy attempting to collect dust that can be much more easily contained right at the tool.

Your choice, just don't expect everyone to buy into your view of reality.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks......I will remind you to keep it friendly.

[Don Selke]

Thanks Ken:

To most others, it all boils down to cost. I would love to be able to buy any power tool I want, it's just not in the cards.

[Don Selke]

Thanks Ken:

It all boils down to cost, Sure I would like to be in a position to buy anything I want for the shop but it just is not in the cards or budget. We non professionals so to speak, have to make due with what we have.

[Rick Fisher]

This is a funny thread.

I finally got a compressor that can run an air sander and plan to get one.

I have 2 x Festool ETS sanders right now and am not getting an air sander because I dislike the electric sanders. The Festool sanders are truly impressive compared to any other electric sander I have ever run or owned.

The Dust collection on the Festool sanders is one of the most impressive features. So much so that when I get an air sander, it will need to have excellent dust collection or I will not use it. I can sand in a black T-Shirt for 1/2 an hour with the Festool and walk away dust free..

Its my belief that the Air sander will be a more powerful and more capable tool than the electric. I could see myself using it on large tops etc.

[johnny means]

Doesn't the fact you don't own one make your list invalid?



2)Those stupid dust ports are a gimmick. You should always sand with a mask and/or a draft table.



Obviously, you have no actual experience with a good sander and extractor.
Downdraft tables only work on small flat-ish things. What happens when you throw a large table top on top of a downdraft table? Or how about a 6' tall highboy or a 27' laminated in place spiral hand rail?

[Greg Peterson]

Near as I can tell, there is no right or wrong. Lots of options to choose from. Each person decides for themselves the best tool for their shop and projects. Each has its pros and cons.

Me? I use a Bosch ROS, hooked up to my shop vac via dust deputy, with hepa filter. When I can not sand outside, I use the ROS setup in conjunction with the downdraft table hooked up to my DC.

I considered air, but that would require a significant investment.

[Glen Butler]

Wow. Didn't expect that. Sorry I have offended a few of you for my list "Right or wrong as they may be".

I own three electric ROS's that have a dust collection gimmick and clearly are not optimized for dust extraction, and couple pneumatics. I prefer pneumatics because the dust is the same, either way I am wearing a mask (I hope you are too), and the pneumatic is faster, smaller, less tiring.

Johnny, obviously there are numerous things you can't sand using a draft table - thus mask - lets be reasonable here. I hope you sand with a mask even with your super duper dust extractor.

[Peter Quinn]

Card scrapers are a life saver for flat objects. I too am waiting for a price cut or knock off to jump into the mirka typa sander. For curved work I like my goose neck scraper! Takes out most of the major problems and reduces sanding to a minimum for me.

[Carl Beckett]

I have a little autobody experience and some (older) autobody tools, including a jitterbug and RO air sander. I prefer using the electric (have a Bosch - with a half decent dust collection setup - I hook it to my house central vac, which is basically a cyclone type dust collection vented to the outside). Coupled with a down draft (hooked to a 2hp dust collection in an adjacent room), it works very well.

Convenient, fast, reasonable dust control. I use it on home projects as well.

The reason I dont use the air tools more is first, water. I find that after extended bouts of sanding I can get a spit of water through the lines which really gums up a sanded surface. Yes, I need better dryers for the compressor (a half decent emglo 2 stage)

Then the other thing is, that my air hoses dont reach all over my house the way my electrical outlets do. Another complication, is that I have my shop split between a one car garage and an external building - the air compressor is in the external building, and although I can move it to the other shop if need be, its not as convenient as the electric. (and long air hoses dont work well due to pressure drops, ESPECIALLY at high cfm required to run an air sander well)

So although I DO own some air sanders, I DONT use them, but COULD. This leads me to conclude that yep, I lazy, or old and an ever increasing creature of habit, or that the electrics just work better for me given my current work mode and type of projects.

[michael gates]

206173206172Dust ports are no gimmick on the Dynabrade, they work great. Some have been interested in the Festool Air sanders. Here is the Festool compared to my Dynabrade, it is huge. Both are 6 inch.
You can hardly find any info on the Festool air sanders because they are not very popular and are very expensive to set up with the extra hose and hookups needed to get them running.

The Festool uses a multi air type pad which has a lot of holes, not only does the paper cost more it doesn't last as long as normal paper and doesn't sand as fast since there are so many holes in the paper.

Hope this isnt too far off topic.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The OP asked WHY most woodworkers deal with using electric ROSs.

The most likely reasons are the expense of a large air compressor, the cost of the tool and the noise involved.

There is no right or wrong. Choose the method and tool that you determine suits your purpose and is within your budget.

Keep in mind....not all woodworkers have the same preferences. I have large hands. I prefer large tools. I am a large guy.

Pneumatic sanders have their pros and cons.....electric sanders have their pros and cons.

Use what you determine is right for you.

I have both. I use the one I determine more satisfies my current requirement for a sander.

There surely is no reason to be to be argumentative about it.

[raul segura]

FUNNY, I purchased an old electric Makita non orbital square one, about 20 yrs ago.
Just puled it out of the cobwebs. Its got a bag collector on it and found dust pick up to work rather well, (at least for clean/not lungs). Quite surprised with it. I'm sure not half as good as new models, but sure beats sanding with muscle.

25 gal comp. runs to much for many air tools, very noisy and I puddle my pants when it kicks on if I'm working quietly into the night (LOL).
Mostly its about economy,subject and how much use will it be in the long run.
Yes money. Ill have to get one of those orbitals soon.

[David Goodnuff]

...The Festool uses a multi air type pad which has a lot of holes, not only does the paper cost more it doesn't last as long as normal paper and doesn't sand as fast since there are so many holes in the paper. ...

You're not using it right. The extra holes allow for better dust collection and if you use it with dust collection it runs cooler, sands better and the paper lasts significantly longer than other paper.

[michael gates]

You're not using it right. The extra holes allow for better dust collection and if you use it with dust collection it runs cooler, sands better and the paper lasts significantly longer than other paper.

I am aware of what it is supposed to do, unfortunately it doesn't. I actually own both sanders as well as several others, I can clearly see how they work! I don't use the Festool because it took about 5 seconds to see and feel the Dynabrade is better.
The Festool system is pretty much the same as the Norton multi air, which I also feel has too many holes and not enough paper, resulting in paper being worn out quicker than a normal piece as well as slow sanding since you are actually loosing so much of the sand paper to the holes.

[Chris Merriam]

FYI for those considering the Mirka system, my local Woodcraft has it setup for testing along with a couple other sanders. Your store may have it as well. I tried it out, but never having used a pneumatic sander, I can't really compare it to anything else. It definitely seemed nicer than my $70 Dewalt!

[David Hostetler]

To answer the OP's original question, at least on my behalf. A large enough air compressor that would be sufficient to drive an air sander would be cost prohibitive, and utilize an unduly large amount of shop floor real estate, which in my situation is a precious commodity. I have a smallish 2HP 8 gallon compressor that drives my nailers, and even impact wrench and ratchet, but a sander just takes too high of a hit on CFM for this little machine...

An electric ROS really for me isn't that much of a problem. They aren't that heavy, nor do I find vibration to be troublesome. And I have a cheap sander...

Another issue is the exhaust air from a pnuematic tends to make dust collection difficult at best. All that exhaust air blows the dust everywhere into the air, where you need to be protected from it. Electrics can be hooked up to a vac and that nasty dust sucked up before it gets into the air... YMMV depending on make and model of sander of course... I am sure there are well designed pnuematics, and I KNOW there are badly designed electrics...

[raul segura]

So to run a sander and other air eaters. What is a reasonable time % to have a compressor run vs machine relative to shortening its life.
Looks like this is relevant to owning such a tool. Keeping in mind that all tools / compressor set up are different.
I'm usually easy on my machines, when I can be.

[michael gates]

A decent compressor has a 60% duty cycle.

[Joe Calhoon]

Michael, you might already know this but the paper in Festool sanders lasts a lot longer if the vac is run at half speed. We also found the Klingspore Festool pattern to last as long and much less money. As far as compressors, if you do this for a living and want to use air sanders you will need a good one with a drier.

We used air sanders only for 20 years and did damage to other air operated machinery by getting oil and water in the lines before getting a good unit. As Ken said, there are uses for both types. In our case the dust free Festool is worth a lot to me. On the other hand if faced with sanding out a pile of interior doors that had a poor wide belt sand I would be reaching for the more aggressive air sanders and ready to eat some dust.

Joe

[johnny means]

206173206172
it doesn't last as long as normal paper and doesn't sand as fast since there are so many holes in the paper.



The pad surface area lost to holes is less than a half percent. I doubt this has any discernible affect on sanding rates or paper life.

[Rick Fisher]

I agree about the Festool sandpaper. It is far superior to the red chinese sandpaper, but I prefer SIA or Klingspor. Having said that, its fine, just not my first choice, especially in the super fine grits.

[michael gates]

Johnny,
You must be thinking of the old style pads and paper the newer ones have a lot more holes.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I can't believe you folks are still beating this dog.

To get into an air driven systems takes a much larger financial outlay. The $299 P-C combo air kit at HD ain't gonna get it done or won't do it very long before it self destructs.

Most woodworkers are hobbiest not professionals and may not be able to afford that expense or might not be able to justify it.

While some may have had a bad experience or have a bad opinion of Festool, there are a lot of happy users out there.

This isn't a baseball or football game. There are no winners or losers.

Come on.......