Plane acquisition-quest-lust-addiction enabling

[Ashwini Kaul]

Hey Folks,
I have over the last year or so, acquired a decent collection of chisels and have been learning/enjoying using them.
I am having a hankering for some modern planes.
Here's what I have currently:
- MF - Junior Jack - ok condition.
- Veritas BU #7 jointer.
- Veritas medium shoulder plane
- LN brass block plane

I am getting a hankering to add to this collection. I am thinking a Jack/Smoother from LN/LV is in order.
I am currently using mostly Maple, Ash, Oak, Cherry - from wood I have stockpiled. I hope to acquire some walnut and mahogany soon. I am still learning the ropes of this hobby. I am looking to you folks, who have much more experience than me - to recommend the next plane or 2. I dont plan on getting anything vintage at this point, till I know what I am doing or looking for. I cant afford a Marcou or a Brese (ar at least cant justify the price at this point in this hobby).

Thanks everyone!

[Gordon Eyre]

I just bought the LN movable throat block plane. It is an exceptionally well built plane and works equally as well. It is nice to see end grain look polished with just a few swipes of the plane. A smoother would be great IMO and I love the looks and build of the one from LN.

[Chris Griggs]

A smoother is a good next purchase. No 3, 4, 4 1/2 (or dare I say 5 1/4) as well as any of the BU smoothers from LN/LV will more than get the job done. Read up (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/tools/understanding_bench_planes) on the advantages and disadvantages of each, if possible see if you can get your hands on some, then make the best decision you can with the information at hand.

ENJOY!

[Ashwini Kaul]

I am looking to get a smoother too. But there is so much choice. Brian Kent... I think did like a poll a while back on planes folk like. LN - surprisingly did not fare too well. Furthermore many folks get the 4 or 4-1/2 with a 50 or a 55 degree frog to tackle figured woods.
I am confused about whether to get a LN 4 or 4-1/2; whether to get a HA frog or instead get a BU smoother from LV? Or to look at other alternatives.

[James Owen]

Here's my view:

One thing to take into consideration in choosing a #4 or a #4½ is personal preference. The #4 is the "standard" smoother for most work, and works very well for most most smoothing. The #4½ has additional mass (about 1½ pounds difference for the LN iron versions of each) and a ⅜" wider iron (#4½ -- 2⅜" vs #4 -- 2"). The extra mass of the #4½ often makes it easier to plough through twisty/interlocked grain with no or, at least, reduced tear-out, but it is also more work to get and keep moving. Same kind of thing applies to the wider iron: it will smooth your board with fewer passes, but is often harder to get and keep going because of the additional resistance the wider iron generates.

Which frog angle to choose depends a lot on what kind of wood you'll be using most. If it will be mainly straight-grained, "co-operative" domestic hard or soft woods, then the standard 45˚ frog will work quite well the vast majority of the time. If you'll be using a lot of highly-figured domestics, or woods with a lot of interlocking grain, or mostly tropical exotics, then you'll probably want either the 50˚ or the 55˚ frog to start - the more interlocking or swirly the grain in the wood is, the more you'll probably want the higher angled (55˚) frog. You may already be aware that the higher frog angle will significantly reduce or even eliminate tear-out in such woods, but the price you pay for that is more effort to push the plane across the wood.

One of the nice things about the LN planes is that you can buy one with whichever frog you choose to start with, and add a different frog some time down the line, when you need it.

My preference is for the #4½ most of the time, although I also sometimes use a #5½ as a long smoother. My preference is also for the Lie-Nielsen planes, but you certainly won't go wrong with the Lee Valley/Veritas, either. Both are excellent lines of tools, are extremely well-made from the finest materials, and both companies have the best customer service you'll find anywhere.

[Tom McMahon]

Here is a post I wrote for my blog on planes, it may help it may not. http://millcrek.wordpress.com/2011/07/13/planes/

[Joe A Faulkner]

Great looking collection and a fun read. I loved the comment about buying and configuring 20 old Stanley's for the price of one premium plane. Can the same be said for woodies?

[Curt Putnam]

Since you have the LV BU jointer already, I would (and did) make use of the system's possibilities (interchangeable irons) and add the LV BU jack next and then the smoother. The only difficulty with this approach is that one must have a system for keeping track of which iron is ground how. There is no rule that says you can only have 1 of each type/size of plane. My next acquisition will be either an LN # 2 or # 3, in bronze. I will attend the next LN event in Cerritos so that I may determine which.

[David Keller NC]

I am looking to get a smoother too. But there is so much choice. Brian Kent... I think did like a poll a while back on planes folk like. LN - surprisingly did not fare too well. Furthermore many folks get the 4 or 4-1/2 with a 50 or a 55 degree frog to tackle figured woods.
I am confused about whether to get a LN 4 or 4-1/2; whether to get a HA frog or instead get a BU smoother from LV? Or to look at other alternatives.

Many folks find the price of L-N planes difficult to swallow. There are various reasons, but one of them is that some are coming over from the world of gigantically mass-produced power tools, where a $150 router is pricey. They then look at a tool that has no motor and few moving parts, and judge that $350 (#4 in bronze) is frighteningly expensive.

But - (and this is a matter of opinion), what is often not recognized is that such a plane is a lifetime purchase. It will not wear out, and you'll be doing an incredible amount of work with it if you succeed in using up an iron, which is of course, easily and inexpensively replaceable. Also, a plane from L-N has a very high resale value, unlike a power tool. On those grounds, $350 doesn't seem so bad - about $17 a year amortized over a 20 year period.

L-V planes are a bit less expensive because in some cases they are specifically designed to be easier to mass produce, and use less expensive materials. But that is not always the case. For most of us, it comes down to a stylistic preference. I personally do not like the looks of L-V bench planes, the totes in particular. But many people do, and I own several L-V planes despite my preferences, and they are uniformly excellent in terms of fit and finish, and also excellent performers.

BTW - you can now buy the L-N smoothers (and many of their longer planes) with high angle frogs. My strong suggestion to you is that you don't want a really high angle frog of 55 degrees as your first smoother. There are few woods that require such a high angle, and many of us purchase a 55 or 60 degree cutting angle plane sometime later specifically for smoothing difficult, hard, high-figure woods like curly maple. But the difference in force required to push such a plane through domestic hardwoods is substantial, and it doesn't make much sense to ensure that you will work harder 100% of the time just to ensure that you will get good performance with the difficult 5% of the wood that you will work.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I am looking to get a smoother too. But there is so much choice. Brian Kent... I think did like a poll a while back on planes folk like. LN - surprisingly did not fare too well. Furthermore many folks get the 4 or 4-1/2 with a 50 or a 55 degree frog to tackle figured woods. I am confused about whether to get a LN 4 or 4-1/2; whether to get a HA frog or instead get a BU smoother from LV? Or to look at other alternatives.

May be time to take a look at the wooden alternatives such as HNT Gordon, ECE, and the Japanese planes.

Pam

PS Sorry for the lack of links, but the link mechanism here isn't behaving as I expected.

[Chris Griggs]

May be time to take a look at the wooden alternatives such as HNT Gordon, ECE, and the Japanese planes.

Pam

PS Sorry for the lack of links, but the link mechanism here isn't behaving as I expected.

It's definitely hard choosing when you can't try before you buy. I've thought about pulling the trigger on an ECE Jointer a number of times, but there's nowhere to try it and not that much info out there from users/owners.

Even with LN/LVs it would be really nice to try before you buy. Unfortunately, neither have come to Louisiana since I got into woodworking.

Given how hard it is for some of us to get our hands on planes before purchasing, I would probably go with a LV/LN No.4 if I were in the OPs shoes (which I will be if/when I decide to upgrade from my Bailey and get a premium smoother). The No. 4, is tried and true, unlikley it will be too big or too small. As much as I would like to own a 3, 4 1/2, and 5 1/4. More and more I starting to realize why there are so many No. 4s in the wild - it's just a great all around size for a smoother.

[Pam Niedermayer]

It's definitely hard choosing when you can't try before you buy. I've thought about pulling the trigger on an ECE Jointer a number of times, but there's nowhere to try it and not that much info out there from users/owners....

It's kind of like eating vegetables, hard to make yourself try a new one if you haven't done that before, much easier on repeated new tries. I really don't know what to say in the face of this attitude, being one who enjoys trying stuff more often than not. I can say with certainty that the ECE jointer is a great one, with a couple of minor difficulties on blade insertion due to the mechanism. Same with another student's ECE Primus smoother that I used in a woodworking class some years ago. And the same in spades for the HNT and Japanese planes.

Pam

PS Jack and I returned home from a trip to Michigan last week, via Louisiana, first time we'd been to New Orleans. It was strange trying to keep our Newfie mix from jumping into ponds and rivers chock full of alligators; but luckily he survived with no incidents.

[Chris Griggs]

PS Jack and I returned home from a trip to Michigan last week, via Louisiana, first time we'd been to New Orleans. It was strange trying to keep our Newfie mix from jumping into ponds and rivers chock full of alligators; but luckily he survived with no incidents.

Glad you and yours escaped without incident - the streets of NOLA can be far more dangerous then the ponds and rivers;).

As for the topic at hand, good to know ithe ECE is a good plane, those ECE jointers come up pretty cheap on fleabay somewhat frequently and even new are very reasonable priced at some of the online vendors (says I who is always looking for a way to avoid the possibly inevitable purchase of an LN No. 8 some day).

[Phillip Ngan]

I think the best plane to complement your collection is the LV BU smoother. You have a fore plane (coarse), and jointer (medium), and now you need a smoother for getting that fine finished. The LV BU smoother will allow you to interchange your blade with the BU jointer. So you could buy put a steeper bevel on it to prevent tearing out figured wood.

I have a LN 4 1/2 and as much as a want to love it, it doesn't give me the emotional satisfaction compared to using my LV BU Jack which just surprises me each time I use it.