Wooden planes and their irons

[Peter Cobb]

I want to make a woodie following Haywards Jack plan
205814
I know it's drawn with a double iron, but some recent posts + Larry Williams' comments on double irons (http://planemaker.com/articles_single_v_double.html) and Ron Hock's invitation to try one's hand at heat treating (http://www.hocktools.com/diyht.htm) got me thinking on making it a single iron.
O1 is readily available from McMasterCarr 205815 BUT how thick should I make it ??

Ron Brese's infills use 7/32, Todd Herrli uses 1/8 in the "side escapement" video and I know George Wilson commented on 1/8 tapering to 3/32 (I feel he wasn't too impressed with the scantlings).
What thickness blades do your well working, single-iron, wood-hogging or gossamer-shaving-making favourite planes sport? Or am I overanalysing this?

Cheers,
Peter

I almost highjacked a previous thread but opted to start a new one...

[David Weaver]

My good old planes are in the neighborhood of 3/16ths on the business end.

I think you would be best off finding an old single iron and making a plane around it. 2 1/4" would be my choice of size for a 15 or 16 inch woody jack.

There are scads of them around with butcher or some variant of ohio tool.

The reason I say that is because of two things: most of the old irons are reasonably good, and they have a taper that makes them easy to get out of the planes, and easy to stay set well.

Suggestion #2 is to find an old plane that is single iron and decent quality to copy. It's a lot easier to build something if you can copy a good example. Unless you find a superb example from an old maker with no wear, you should be able to better it fairly easily in terms of performance.

[David Weaver]

Oops, just noticed you're in chile and that will make it pretty difficult to ship old woodies cheaply.

You can always put a little bit of taper on a precision ground iron with a belt sander. It takes very little to make a huge improvement in how easy it is to get an iron out of a plane. My first moulders had straight irons in them and I almost couldn't get them out - generally couldn't at all without hitting the finial, and that's not something I want to do.

Still, if you could get an old one to copy, that would be good. I might be able to take some pictures of the inside of an old JT brown single iron plane for you if need something to work off of.

[Peter Cobb]

Thanks, David... Shipping out here's a beast. Pictures would be really helpful.
Cheers,
Peter

[john brenton]

Yeah, for real. I'm not sure if Chile is anything like Peru when it comes to shipping, but anything more than a letter and you've got to go all the way to hell to pick it up. For me it was about a two hour ride on the crammed combis to and fro. Then they make you wait forever, then they go through the box looking for Lord knows what. Every time my mom wrote me telling she was sending something for the baby I was like "THANKS MOM. Thanks a lot."

Funny thing about shipping. If I send a 1' square box weighing 2 lbs. from the US to Peru it'll cost me $35. But I had a 4' x 2' box that weighed about 30 lbs. sent FROM Peru to the US and it cost me about $25. Same services.

I forgot to ask about that Chilean plane. I wrote a couple of carpenter friends down there a few minutes ago and hopefully they'll get me an answer.



Thanks, David... Shipping out here's a beast. Pictures would be really helpful.
Cheers,
Peter

[David Weaver]

Thanks, David... Shipping out here's a beast. Pictures would be really helpful.
Cheers,
Peter

See attached. Sorry about the ugly flash pictures, but without cleaning off an area, it's the only way I could guarantee they'd be clear with the light in the right place.

Wedges go almost to the edge of the iron, much closer to the edge than it's shown sitting on the iron outside of the plane (which probably explains why it feels nicer and less chattery in use than my double iron planes). the mouth is identical in depth to the abutments, they meet without the abutments having to take any drastic turns.

It is a very clean setup, and the iron cuts very close to full width without any clogging.

[Chris Vandiver]

These guys usually have a good selction of plane irons; eBay item number 120727813705 or item # 360383230812

Good luck!

[Peter Cobb]

Yeah, for real. I'm not sure if Chile is anything like Peru when it comes to shipping, but anything more than a letter and you've got to go all the way to hell to pick it up.

Hiya John,
nope, they now bring me a kind letter :p inviting me to pay the duties on the product, shipping and insurance (On average some 60-80 bucks :eek: on 100 bucks of product) and THEN I get to pick it up early in the morning from the closest depot (about 2 miles away), when stuff wasn't insured it didn't always make it... I never could work out the price structure... maybe there's less stuff on the plane flying north?


Funny thing about shipping. If I send a 1' square box weighing 2 lbs. from the US to Peru it'll cost me $35. But I had a 4' x 2' box that weighed about 30 lbs. sent FROM Peru to the US and it cost me about $25. Same services.

I forgot to ask about that Chilean plane. I wrote a couple of carpenter friends down there a few minutes ago and hopefully they'll get me an answer.

What were you up to in el Perú, were you there for a long time (enough to make shavings and get experience with local woods?). If you can get a line on those planes it'd be great.


See attached. Sorry about the ugly flash pictures, but without cleaning off an area, it's the only way I could guarantee they'd be clear with the light in the right place.

Wedges go almost to the edge of the iron, much closer to the edge than it's shown sitting on the iron outside of the plane (which probably explains why it feels nicer and less chattery in use than my double iron planes). the mouth is identical in depth to the abutments, they meet without the abutments having to take any drastic turns.

It is a very clean setup, and the iron cuts very close to full width without any clogging.

Thanks Dave,
It certainly less choke-prone than my ECE wedge. Those are really helpful.


These guys usually have a good selction of plane irons; http://www.ebay.com/itm/W-K-Peace-Sheffield-2-1-2-Single-Plane-Iron-Tapered-/120727813705?pt=UK_Collectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item1c1bf03e49 or this one; http://www.ebay.com/itm/W-K-C-Peace-Sheffield-2-3-16-Single-Plane-Iron-/360383230812?pt=UK_Collectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item53e883b35c
Good luck!
Hey Chris, you've given me one of those resounding "duh" moments (include forehead slapping and Duff beer in the background)... My mother's going to the UK tomorrow, I'll see if I can convince her into carrying largish quantities of wooden tools back into the country for me (I guess an anvil is out of the question :D)

Thanks to y'all.
Peter

[Mike Holbrook]

The single plane blades I got with my Steve Knight plane kits are simple 2" wide x 1/4" thick pieces of 01 steel. The top corners are a little rounded and there is a small hole near the top center. You can see them int the picture I posted on making planes below this post. Most of the ones I see for sale are 3/16. Ron Hock's are designed to have cap irons but it says you can just order the blades & save $10. David Finck's Krenov style irons are A2 3/16, but they too have chip breakers. The HNT Gordon planes & kits come with irons that look like mine. Gordon sells irons too, but from Australia.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16891057@N05/6062853737/in/photostream

[john brenton]

Well, at first I was just living the dream of being a decent looking American guy in Latin America...and what a dream it was...but then the dream turned into reality. I got married and had a daughter there. My wife is from the Andes and her father was a furniture maker. He actually died from complications after a table saw lopped off half of his hand. He did some pretty nice work...nothing fancy, but all well made.

I didn't get to work wood, other than scraping and refinishing all of the wood trim at my mother in laws place. Although there are all kinds of species in all of the different selvas peppered throughout South America, what you mostly find where I was is something similar to spanish cedar. Almost everything is made out of it there, from furniture to concrete forms. When I was in Bolivia though I really got to some some gorgeous wood. The naranjillo, jacaranda, k'ellu, laurel negro, guayacan...and the prices just killed me. The laurel negro is especially gorgeous. Dirt cheap...but then of course you can eat a three course lunch for $1 there too, or at least that's what it was before America took a dump.

There's a furniture maker who lives down the street from my mother-in-law and I did spend some time with him the last time I was there. He does everything with machines though. He sneezed one day while we were talking and a massive sawdust cloud went flying out of his nose. Scary.

I still haven't gotten an answer about the Chilean planes, but there is another brand you might see down there. "El Aguila" I believe to be a german manufacturer of saws, and they make some pretty sweet ones for cheap. The handles are junky and riveted, but the steel is good. They make really affordable back saws, panel saws, and timber saws. I handled a 28" 3 TPI rip saw that I wish I could have taken home.



Hiya John,

What were you up to in el Perú, were you there for a long time (enough to make shavings and get experience with local woods?). If you can get a line on those planes it'd be great.


Peter

[Peter Cobb]

Hey John,
you most certainly made good use of your time in the area. Losing a family member in a work related accident/complications is a major blow, as it's usually unexpected and often happens to otherwise healthy people. Sorry about your loss.

Don't know what spanish cedar looks like so I'm rather lost on that one. The "default" wood here is Radiata pine, it's knotty and grown quickly so it'll twist and shout, crush and bruise and is not that attractive to look at (not so affectionately known as crapiata in Oz for some reason). Most of the local woodworkers use doug fir, raulí (Nothofagus alpina) and roble (Nothofagus obliqua) of the so called southern beeches and mañío (Podocarpus sp.). The bolivian woods are definitely beautiful, but by the time they've been hauled over here the mark-up is considerable.
I'm making a prototype in rauli and will see how it behaves.

Machines are the mainstay here but small shops use NO safety measures at all (you can buy the blue based table saw (http://www.megacomercio.cl/megacomercio/web/detalleAviso/SIERRA-DE-BANCO-oferta-MC1384.html) for approx $280 bucks) and dust extraction is unknown of in even the medium size shops. Some things simply take too long to carry over. Those shops still produce some really tasteful and well built stuff. (the bigger shop has the TS and planer for sale ca. 13-14 grand)

I spent a good couple of hours refining my google skills on duty last night, but no references of Aguila saws, as far as I could find... What time frame are we talking about? '90s / '00s. As always any help appreciated.

Cheers,
Peter
PD The tools and shops are NOT mine, just an indicator of local conditions (got them off local craigslist equivalents)

[john brenton]

Oh yeah, I've definitely seen it down there. It's frightening, and if you lose an arm, well, TS for you. Should have been more careful.

I believe La Aguila is still making them...they looked new to me. I didn't find anything on the internet either. I guess you just have to go to all the hardware stores down there and see what they have. There are all kind of little off brand stuff. It's neat to be in a completely different market and find Italian, Spanish, and other products.

I have certain things I'd look for everywhere I went, like old barbers supplies, musical instruments, tools, etc. I found a never used Filarmonica staright razor in the box on my last trip.



Peter
PD The tools and shops are NOT mine, just an indicator of local conditions (got them off local craigslist equivalents)