Windsor Chair Kits @ Highland - Anyone Know Who Makes Them?

[David Keller NC]

I was browsing tools catalogs this morning (yeah, I know - that's dangerous!;)), and came across this at Highland Hardware:

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/sackback-windsor-chair-kit.aspx

I'm curious if anyone has purchased & assembled one of these, and if anyone knows who makes them?

[seth lowden]

I speculate they are made by D.R. Dimes.

I further speculate that my initial speculation was wrong. I suddenly remembered a better guess.

http://bennerswoodworking.com

Much closer visual match.

[Mike Holbrook]

The Windsor Chair class has been very popular at Highland Hardware/Woodworking for many years. One day I hope to take it, would have by now but it is expensive and requires a weeks time. If you check the class information it indicates that Peter Galbert teaches the class. According to the info. Peter builds chairs full time at his workshop in New England...

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/Windsor-Chair-Making-Seminar-Peter-Galbert.aspx

[David Keller NC]

Partly the reason I was asking is that the kits are pretty inexpensive compared to the amount of work that is necessary to rive the parts and shape them on a lathe. Wouldn't surprise me that the manufacturer uses a CNC lathe to do this work, but riving parts is a whole lot of back-breaking labor (DAMHIKT!)

[Dave Anderson NH]

They look very similar to the chairs that Mike Dunbar teaches for his classes. I know he has always sold the turning sets, maybe he branched out for additional income. CNC turnings make sense when you are selling volume. On the other hand, for years I've watched one of our guild members demo at the Sunapee Craftsman's Fair. He does most of a year's supply of legs over 9 days while he talks with folks and turns out a completed leg about every 4-6 minutes out of birch. I asked him once how he does it so fast. His answer was that after the first "few thousand" it becomes second nature. He turns at the fair because he gets to out in the air and talk with people, the turning is boring and it relieves the pain.

[seth lowden]

I looked them over again and I am certain that they are the River Bend chairs (Benner's), made in Ohio. I think David T Smith, among others, buys unfinished chairs and puts "museum quality" distressed finish and retails them. Mike Dunbar's turnings have a vase shaped more like a bowling pin. The vase on the River Bend chairs is more New York, with a more bulbous look. The bottom taper on the River Bend leg has a concave taper, while Dunbar's is a straight taper.

[Mike Holbrook]

I believe Highland Woodworking has a hand made example of the chair in the top picture or it's cousin, sitting in the front of the store. I thought it was a chair from one of the classes, not quite finished, maybe made by whoever taught the class at that time. You have my curiosity up. I will give them a call in the AM and find the answer.

[Highland Woodworking]

I believe Highland Woodworking has a hand made example of the chair in the top picture or it's cousin, sitting in the front of the store. I thought it was a chair from one of the classes, not quite finished, maybe made by whoever taught the class at that time. You have my curiosity up. I will give them a call in the AM and find the answer.

We do have 3 Windsor chairs on display at the front of our store (convenient if you're browsing our book department). One is a traditional sackback chair built by Michael Dunbar at a seminar here back in 1985. Another is a continuous arm built by Curtis Buchanan at his 2004 class. The third is a child's balloon-back Windsor chair built by Terry Chapman while attending Peter Galbert's class here in October, 2010.

We don't yet have a chair assembled from one of Chris Benner's kits (aka River Bend) on display at the store, but he was in Atlanta Friday and dropped by to say hello, saying he would come back sometime this winter and demo the process, perhaps at one of our One Day Sales. Confirming what David speculated, Chris Benner's spindles are turned on a CNC lathe, not rived, which does significantly help keep the cost down.

We do have a series of blog entries in progress that cover building a sackback chair from Chris Benner's kit. The first entry is at: http://blog.woodworkingtooltips.com/2011/07/newbie-chairbuilding-girl-getting-started/

And if you're up for a somewhat bigger challenge, Peter Galbert will be here Oct. 31-Nov. 6 leading a 7-day class on building a continuous arm Windsor Chair. Same link that Mike posted above: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/Windsor-Chair-Making-Seminar-Peter-Galbert.aspx

Chris Bagby, owner
Highland Woodworking

[Mike Holbrook]

Wish the wife would give me a week off work to attend that class. I'll be at Highland Woodworking tomorrow to pickup a few things. I will try out all the chairs and take a look at the kits. I know one of those chairs fits me like a glove, I think the older one.

[Mike Holbrook]

Too late to edit so I will double post. I looked at the chairs yesterday when I was in the store. The pieces seem well made for that price. The seat is well shaped but will require a good deal of finish work on the surface. Some of the holes will need dressing up. The legs, rungs & supports look like they are pretty much in finished condition. It was hard not to take one with me, especially after sitting in the examples in the reading area.

[Mike Henderson]

I don't want to sound like too much of a purist here, but, to me, making a Windsor chair represents (or demonstrates) that the maker has mastered a number of skills, including riving, turning, shaping of spindles with spokeshaves, bending wood, shaping of a seat, and accurately drilling holes at proper angles. There's a lot to the making of a Windsor chair when you start from nothing but a tree. When you start from a kit, all you demonstrate is that you can glue things together and apply a finish. Assembling a Windsor chair kit is only a small step away from buying one at a furniture store.

Mike

[Mike Holbrook]

Exactly right, but if I make one of the kits and give it to the wife, she might give me a week off to take the Windsor Chair class at Highland Hardware. It also may save me the cost of a new office chair for the wife. I would like to have the opportunity to use a chair like that before investing all the time and money in making something I might not end up like using for real life seating challenges.

[Mike Henderson]

Exactly right, but if I make one of the kits and give it to the wife, she might give me a week off to take the Windsor Chair class at Highland Hardware. It also may save me the cost of a new office chair for the wife. I would like to have the opportunity to use a chair like that before investing all the time and money in making something I might not end up like using for real life seating challenges.
Since the one you make from scratch will not be the same as the kit, save yourself some money and buy a used commercial Windsor chair from a yard sale or Craigslist. You can refinish it, if you want, and all you've lost compared to the kit is the glue-up experience.

Mike

[Mike Holbrook]

The Highland Woodworking kit chair I saw is very close to the version of the same chair built in a Windsor Chair Class that Highland Woodworking has in the store. None of the commercial "Windsors" I have seen are anything like the four chairs built in HW classes.

[Ed Griner]

This kit gives you all the parts,hole location,angles,wood selection,you name it! All from the comfort of your shop.Its pretty cheap really,no plans to buy,no museum problems,(no you can't measure the furniture or take photos!). When I saw this post a light went off in my head,I'd buy a kit(their all nice examples) and make six more! Duck Soup! Ed

[Mike Henderson]

This kit gives you all the parts,hole location,angles,wood selection,you name it! All from the comfort of your shop.Its pretty cheap really,no plans to buy,no museum problems,(no you can't measure the furniture or take photos!). When I saw this post a light went off in my head,I'd buy a kit(they're all nice examples) and make six more! Duck Soup! Ed
If you decide to do this, let me give you a suggestion. One of the hardest things to do on a Windsor chair is to drill the holes in the seat for the spindles and legs in the right place and at the right angle. I've often thought that the way to fix that (compared to the traditional way of doing it) is to glue up some MDF until it's fairly thick, maybe 2", then clamp it to a seat that has the holes already drilled into it at the proper angles. The MDF will have to be a bit wider and longer than the seat. Using the proper sized drill bit, from the bottom of the seat, drill through the MDF. This will give you a jig to use for future seats of the same style Windsor chair. If the spindle holes in your seat don't go all the way through (they don't usually), just drill them through. You can plug them back to the proper depth afterwards if you don't want the holes in the bottom of your seat.

To get proper registration, find the center lines (length and width) of the seat before you drill the holes - and transfer these lines to the MDF. To use the jig, mark center lines on your seat blank and align the jig. Clamp and drill away.

You'l still have to drill the seat back loop and the legs and stretchers but you can probably figure those out. Follow one of the books on Windsor chairs for details.

AND, you have to bend the seat back, which takes special equipment. You could probably make a form and laminate bend those if you don't want to do the steam bending.

You'll also need a tapered reamer to taper the holes for the legs, and when you turn the legs, you'll need to put that same taper on the top of the legs.

Mike

[And let me add that even with a sample kit to go by, making a Windsor chair is not "Duck Soup". There's a lot to learn before you try to build one. Pick up one or more of the books that describe how to build one.

I'm actually not a fan of Windsor chairs. I don't care for the style. But I have a high appreciation of the skill of our ancestors in building them. Through trial and effort they discovered the best woods to use for each part and the proper angles for the legs and the back. For a chair without any padding, they are remarkably comfortable. Someone who goes through the learning to be able to build one, and then brings one to a successful completion, has accomplished quite a bit and deserves a certain amount of professional respect. Building one from a kit simply does not compare.]

[Mike Holbrook]

Great info Dave. I too was thinking about buying the kit as a model and test chair. I believe it is customary to actually size chairs to individuals which might make having a model helpful. In my experience different chairs position the legs differently, varying the ideal seat height. I was thinking individualize chairs would make great family gifts at Christmas.

[Tom Scott]

When you start from a kit, all you demonstrate is that you can glue things together and apply a finish. Assembling a Windsor chair kit is only a small step away from buying one at a furniture store.

Mike

I agree with this, but it still interests me. The making of a Windsor chair has been on my list for a while, but have not been able to manage the week + to travel and take the class. On top of that, there is a whole other set of tools I would need (including a lathe...and the mastering of the lathe). With a dining room suite getting closer on my list, this option suddenly looks more appealing. I know that I will make one from scratch some day, but my wife has already told me that she doesn't plan on letting her new table sit for years while I do it, and I hate the thought of $129 cheapo chairs. I even looked at buying some from the real windsor chair makers, but 10 chairs at $800 a pop adds up.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I agree with this, but it still interests me. The making of a Windsor chair has been on my list for a while, but have not been able to manage the week + to travel and take the class. On top of that, there is a whole other set of tools I would need (including a lathe...and the mastering of the lathe). With a dining room suite getting closer on my list, this option suddenly looks more appealing. I know that I will make one from scratch some day, but my wife has already told me that she doesn't plan on letting her new table sit for years while I do it, and I hate the thought of $129 cheapo chairs. I even looked at buying some from the real windsor chair makers, but 10 chairs at $800 a pop adds up.


Hmmm, I've got 6 or 8 cherry hand-made (not by me) ladder backs I wouldn't mind parting with for cheap (relative, of course).

Pam

[Tom Scott]

Well, Pam, that is tempting but as long as we've waited I think I would have a hard time not going with the continuous arm or sackback windsors that I've always envisioned.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Well, Pam, that is tempting but as long as we've waited I think I would have a hard time not going with the continuous arm or sackback windsors that I've always envisioned.

I was just saying that a lot of us don't much care for windsors as dining room chairs (I'll replace our ladderbacks with ladderbacks or a special fan back design I've been playing with).

Pam