White Grinding Wheels: LV vs. TFWW

[Darren Brewster]

Hi everyone. I am wondering what the difference is between the white Norton grinding wheels that Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=32981&cat=1,43072,43080&ap=1) sells, and the ones that Tools for Working Wood (http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=NO-WHEEL3X.XX&Category_Code=&Search=norton%203x) sells? The ones at TFWW are Norton 3x, I grade, 46 - 100 grit, and Joel M. says on the site in many places that they are the coolest running wheels on the market and perfect for sharpening woodworking tools. The wheels at Lee Valley however are H grade, only come in 80 and 120 grit, and the page says they are exclusively made for Lee Valley. So, what is the difference between the two, and is one option definitely the better option?

[Prashun Patel]

I have used both the Norton 3x and the Norton white wheels (from LV). I was unimpressed by the white wheel; it required a good deal of balancing, and wore incredibly fast (in my heavy sharpening hands;)). The blue 3x wheel by contrast DOES run cool and has lasted a long time. It has run truer, longer for me than the white, and requires less frequent cleaning/truing.

My vote is for the 3x. I have an 80.

[Darren Brewster]

Do you mean you have tried the blue 3x wheels from Lee Valley, or the white 3x wheels from Tools for Working Wood? If you meant the blue, then I guess I have one more wheel to add to my list!

[Prashun Patel]

Ok, I could be wrong, but the picture in yr TFWW link looks like a misrepresentation.

To my understanding, Norton makes 2 kinds of grinding wheels regularly available: The white ones, and the blue ones. I believe the blue ones are the 3x. LV sells both the white and blue kind.

Wherever you get them from, if it were me, I'd get the blue one not the white. But others may have different experiences.

[george wilson]

Grinding wheel hardness is expressed by alphabet numbers. H is a softer stone than an "I",K is a harder stone yet.

The harder your stone is,the less quickly it will grind. You can't have both things in the same stone. If you like the blue the best,go with it. It isn't going to be quite as fast cutting as the white stone,but won't wear as fast,either.

[Prashun Patel]

I should caveat that I use my grinder primarily for honing my lathe tools. They usually only need a touch up; so I guess the harder 3x works will for me. I usually don't do a lot of bevel regrinding with this wheel.

[Tony Shea]

To add to what george says, the harder the stone the quicker it gets clogged which in turn reduces its' rate at which it adrades metal. This also is the cause of the harder stones heating up quicker hence why the say the white stones run cooler. They are friable and will continue to show a fresh abrasive surface in that grinds quicker. SImilar to what softish water stones are doing compared to oilstones.

But a lot of this can be over come. IMO I would buy the coarsest grinding wheel you can find, typically in the range of 46x. If you can get one in the 30's get it. These stones cut fast if not clogged, which in turn cuts down on grinding time which in turn cuts down on chances of burning your tools. As long as you have a good method for truing/dressing your wheel you should have no problems with any coarse stone you get. I have had the best luck with a single point diamond wheel dresser clamped in a jig that will true my grinding wheel face relative to my tool rest. The cheaper diamond wheel dressers (the T style) seem to get abraded by the wheel more so than the other way around.

[Darren Brewster]

Ok, I could be wrong, but the picture in yr TFWW link looks like a misrepresentation.

To my understanding, Norton makes 2 kinds of grinding wheels regularly available: The white ones, and the blue ones. I believe the blue ones are the 3x. LV sells both the white and blue kind.

Wherever you get them from, if it were me, I'd get the blue one not the white. But others may have different experiences.

Oh, OK, so to your knowledge the TFWW wheels are the same as the blue ones that Lee Valley sells, as there is only one kind of 3x wheels, and the white ones Lee Valley sells are different altogether? If so, that would explain and simplify things.

[george wilson]

Well,what happened to the PINK wheels??????

[Gary Hodgin]

I think they went the way of the pink shirt.:) There's something just not right about grinding a chisel on a pink wheel.

[Darren Brewster]

As a follow up, here is a link (http://www.nortonconsumer.com/uploadedFiles/SGnortonconsumer/Documents/GrindingWheel-BladeSpecifications-DIY340.pdf) to a .pdf file from Norton's website that lists their complete range of 3x grinding wheels (close to the end of the file). Lee Valley only sells the 3x wheels in K grade, whereas Tools for Working Wood sells them in I and K grade. I was just getting everything all mixed up. Thanks to Prashun for sticking with me and my now very obvious questions, and to everyone else for chiming in as well. I learned a lot.

[Joel Moskowitz]

Ok, I could be wrong, but the picture in yr TFWW link looks like a misrepresentation.
The picture of the 3X wheels on the TFWW site is not a misrepresentation. It's what the 3X wheels look like. They happen to be Blue. I don't know if Norton makes other blue wheels. We (TFWW) developed the 3X wheels in conjunction with Norton. At the time just the white wheels were available and I said to my friend at Norton that the big competition Norton faced was not from other dry wheel grinders but from the Tormek. It was suggested that maybe Norton should make an aftermarket wheel for the Tormek, but that made little sense. However my friend gave a sneaky smile and said "How you you like a dry wheel that will run at full speed, almost as cool as a tormek?" MY ears when up and a few weeks later I got the first 3X wheels to test.
While the letter coding of hardness is correct, the 3X wheels run far cooler and cut faster than a similar grit white wheel. The reason is that the 3X wheel is a consumer version of the SG (Seeded Gel) abrasive that Norton developed for cool industrial grinding. It isn't aluminum oxide, it a special crystal that fragments as it grinds, exposing cool sharp edges. The 3X version has more binder (which also helps it run cool) and less abrasive than the industrial versions but it's a lot lot less expensive. We had them for a bunch of months exclusively but now everyone started stocking them.

joel

[Joel Moskowitz]

note the K grade wheels run hotter than the I grade. We stock both grades because for sharpening carbon steel or A2/D2 you need a cool temperature. For lathe tools we recommend the K grade because it's harder, lasts longer, and with they typical Lathe tool being HSS the added heat will not cause any problem. Remember also that the coarser the wheel the cooler it will run.

joel