Laguna T1002 shaper

[jim mills]

Anyone have opinions or hands on experience with this shaper? Thanks

[Jeff Duncan]

Don't have any experience.....but opinions are easy to come by:D

I checked out the video and it looks like a decent machine. A couple things I would want a better look at would be on the inside. I don't know why they couldn't buy a flashlight when they filmed the guts.....unless they didn't want you to see too closely? But I like to get a good look at the quill assembly and I want it to look pretty massive on that size machine. Ideally I'd also like a slightly bigger motor, 5hp is OK but 6.6 or even 7.5hp would be a little better, again for that size.

One of my biggest concerns would be the spindle lock, it looked as though you had to get inside the machine to lock the spindle? That doesn't seem right, but that's how it looked to me. For a machine of that size and price range you want/expect a spindle lock right at the front where you have access.

Another thing which again may just be the way it was filmed, the table top looked pretty thin to me. In the section where they're showing the top with the rings removed so you can see the tilt function the top looks awfully thin.

For new machines in that price range I'd want to take a look at Felder also which has a couple machines in that class. There's probably a few others if you look around a bit. Myself, I'd probably be inclined to pick up an older Martin T-23 tilting spindle with slider with plenty of money left over for some tooling. Or if you didn't really need the slider, a Bauerle or SCMI 160, and add an Aigner fence......and still have a few bucks left over for some tooling;)

good luck,
JeffD

[David Kumm]

Jim, What are the features most important to you? If it is rear tilt the Felder 900 is about in the same price range, and there are a few Taiwan machines and a MM that go that way. The fence is similar to the Ironwood shapers that are mfg by Cantek but not an aigner by any means. When you get to the $9000 range I agree with Jim that a used Martin, SCMI, Felder or Format would leave you plenty for tooling and accessories. Many shapers see little use so there are always choices available. It is really hard to compare unless you see the quill assembly, the fence and table, the slider extrusions, the base construction, etc etc. I know that is why you are asking for direct experience. I would contact Mac Campshure at www.mac'sblogboard (http://www.mac'sblogboard) and talk to him. He sold felder for years and is familiar with most euro stuff and would put you in contact with people in the know. Martin is for sure the best, but SCMI, SAC, and certain felder models will be more respected than the Laguna- at least until some time passes. The Woodweb guys are a good source for commercial shaper info as well. Dave

[jim mills]

Don't have any experience.....but opinions are easy to come by:D

I checked out the video and it looks like a decent machine. A couple things I would want a better look at would be on the inside. I don't know why they couldn't buy a flashlight when they filmed the guts.....unless they didn't want you to see too closely? But I like to get a good look at the quill assembly and I want it to look pretty massive on that size machine. Ideally I'd also like a slightly bigger motor, 5hp is OK but 6.6 or even 7.5hp would be a little better, again for that size.

One of my biggest concerns would be the spindle lock, it looked as though you had to get inside the machine to lock the spindle? That doesn't seem right, but that's how it looked to me. For a machine of that size and price range you want/expect a spindle lock right at the front where you have access.

Another thing which again may just be the way it was filmed, the table top looked pretty thin to me. In the section where they're showing the top with the rings removed so you can see the tilt function the top looks awfully thin.

For new machines in that price range I'd want to take a look at Felder also which has a couple machines in that class. There's probably a few others if you look around a bit. Myself, I'd probably be inclined to pick up an older Martin T-23 tilting spindle with slider with plenty of money left over for some tooling. Or if you didn't really need the slider, a Bauerle or SCMI 160, and add an Aigner fence......and still have a few bucks left over for some tooling;)

good luck,
JeffD

Jeff, I really appreciate you taking the time to watch the video. I concur with most of your concerns. I was told the table is 1/2" thick. The machine only weighs #900, But the aluminum slider saves weight.

I priced out the felders, and I can't seem to get into a 900 for less than $15,000 according to list prices.

I am of the opinion that resellers have inflated the cost of used machines, and they know little to nothing about the machines they are selling. They can tell me what shipping would be and that's about it. Very frustrating. I'm finding new machine dealers to be about the same. I found a machine that tilts from -5 to +45 degrees and when I asked if it had a positive stop at zero degrees, they didn't know.

The purpose of the shaper is typically to do cabinet doors. I figured the slider would be the ticket for cope cuts.

[David Kumm]

Jim, I looked at the felder catalog and see that the summer promo machine is more like 12500 for the 900. If used is a possibility I would talk to Fred Rehak, fred@suttonsbay.com for advice as well. I have bought used from him and been happy. I just bought a 2000 SCMI T130 with a slider that had never been fired up for $3750 from a dealer so I know good stuff is available depending on your time frame. Take a look at the Artisan series from Stiles as well. 900 lb seems light for a shaper that size. My 1999 Felder f7 is over 1000 and the scmi is more like 1300#. Good luck, Dave

[Jay Brewer]

The sliding table is not as good for cope cuts as you might think. For large stock like entry doors, its great, but for cabinet doors and short parts, it doesn't work as well. The sliding table is about 4 inches from the cutter, depending on the size of the cutter. You also have to have the fence exactly parallel with the sliding table so it doesn't bind the cut.

I had a nice Felder with all the options, and if I was only going to own one shaper, I would still want something like that. But if you have the room, and want to make alot of doors, its hard to beat dedicated machines. You spend as much time setting up each cut as you do running the parts on a single shaper, unless of course we are talking about a programmable CNC shaper. I sold the Felder and bought 4 lesser machines, each one dedicated to a specific cut of a door. Just turn the machine on, and start running parts. I havent missed the Felder yet. It was a great machine, but for building RP doors, it dosent hold a candle to seperates.

Just my opinion.

[jim mills]

The sliding table is not as good for cope cuts as you might think. For large stock like entry doors, its great, but for cabinet doors and short parts, it doesn't work as well. The sliding table is about 4 inches from the cutter, depending on the size of the cutter. You also have to have the fence exactly parallel with the sliding table so it doesn't bind the cut.

I had a nice Felder with all the options, and if I was only going to own one shaper, I would still want something like that. But if you have the room, and want to make alot of doors, its hard to beat dedicated machines. You spend as much time setting up each cut as you do running the parts on a single shaper, unless of course we are talking about a programmable CNC shaper. I sold the Felder and bought 4 lesser machines, each one dedicated to a specific cut of a door. Just turn the machine on, and start running parts. I havent missed the Felder yet. It was a great machine, but for building RP doors, it dosent hold a candle to seperates.

Just my opinion.

Good info Jay. When you say "four lesser machines", what machines are you talking about? Like Jet, Grizzly, etc? and if so, how are the machines holding up?

[Jay Brewer]

Hi Jim,

Yeah, definitely lesser machines, Jet, Powermatic, Grizzly and Shop Fox. I use them on 10 to 20 hours a week, and they have held up fine.

Im not trying to talk you out of the nicer machines. If you wouldn't have posted about cope cuts on cabinet doors I wouldn't have even responded, but I thought the same thing as you ( That sliding table would be great for cope cuts ). In my experience, there are far better and cheaper ways to do cope cuts.

In my opinion, the machines you are looking at $7k to $10k ( new prices) just don't offer alot over a basic shaper. I didn't find the sliding table very useful for the work I do, and in 4 years of ownership, I might have titled the spindle twice. Again, this has a lot to do with the work I do, mostly RP doors

If I was spending that kind of money again, and only wanted one machine. I would be looking at used programmable shapers from SCM or Martin. Those would be the closest to separate machines as you can get, and have one great machine.

[David Kumm]

Jim, Since this thread has morphed into this I will add that I have seen many cabinet shops set up as Jeff described, with a row of Grizzly shapers or a row of old Oliver, Northfield, Porter types all set for one task. I like my high end stuff but as a hobby guy I don't have to make money or sense. I still use a two shaper set up when making doors as once I have the fence, feeder, and cutter set just right I would give up the dog before changing them. I do prefer the slider for the cope cuts when making heavy profiles. 1.75" entry doors in hardwood are nice to have clamped tight to a fence. If you go that route check the method the machine uses to set the fence to 90. A flip stop that you tighten the slider against is not nearly as good as one that actually locks the fence. Shaper cutters put a lot of stress on the wood and will move a fence slightly unless really torqued down. Bummer to notice that after ten cuts. If you have the space, a plain 7.5-10 hp shaper with a good fence and a feeder, and a second with slider and smaller are probably the most cost effective as both are cheaper to find. Dave

[Peter Quinn]

Mike Heidrick has that shaper in his shop, perhaps you can PM him to get his opinion as a user?

My opinion? It has a 13" hole in the table, a massive slider, and a 5HP motor? I believe its a 3PH motor either way but it comes with a VFD for single phase if required. I feel that if you really wanted to use the capacity of a shaper that large with big cutters for integral tenon work or larger molding cuts then the motor is far too small, and is a bit of a mismatch. But a 5HP baldor should certainly do tons of shaping work adequately. The machine is bulgarian? Check Mike H's old posts about the machine, he notes the manufacturer, they have a website, IIR the SMALLEST motor it comes with in Europe is 7.5HP! Why only 5HP from laguna, or at least why no bigger option? That would be my question to them. At that price point you have a lot of options both new and used so you should be able to get a machine that suits all your needs now and in the future.

Other thoughts? It has one hell of a big table surface, so if you do much pattern work that would be an asset for sure.

[Jeff Duncan]

I agree that if your doing cabinet doors you can get by without the slider. For myself I do a fair amount of doors, just finishing up a set of 17 interior doors 2-1/4" thick and used my shop built coping sled for them. Not trying to talk you out of it as I'm sure there are plenty of uses for a good slider, just offering my two cents.

I've used a few shapers and if you have the budget and space I'd get a good one. I killed the bearings in my Powermatic 27 after 2 years of moderate use. The Powermatic is IMHO heavier than the Delta's, (had on eof those too), and better made than most of those cheap imports. I decided to upgrade so I spent some time and money completely rebuilding an older Martin shaper (1600 lbs 7.5hp) for a total investment of a bit over $3k. Once you use an industrial machine the smaller machines seem like toys...kinda like when you move from a contractor saw to a cabinet saw.

Now I have to admit if your only going to do cabinet doors and never venture into any significant passage doors or larger profiles, then the idea of buying a bunch of smaller separates may indeed make more sense....only you can make that decision. My goal is to end up with a bunch of used industrial machines that cost me not much more than if I bought smaller machines new.

Lastly the tilting is a tricky one to give advice on. My other shaper is a tilt and as a previous poster said I too only use it maybe a couple times a year. Of course when you need one, there's nothing else that comes close.

good luck,
JeffD

[Larry Edgerton]

I agree on the slider being of limited use. I have a MiniMax with a slider and don't use it very much. In fact I took it off to move my shop and have not reinstalled it yet. I only used it for entry doors and have not had any of those lately. For cabinet doors I use a sled.

I do want a tilt, but lately I have been doing a lot of one off mouldings and reproductions and can see how it could save me on a bit of cutter cost by allowing me to change profiles. But I could just be looking for an excuse to buy a new machine.....

I have been looking at the Extrema XT-250. Its a back tilt, sliding table, 7.5 hp, 10" opening that weighs 1370 pounds for $5999.

Larry

[Mark Bolton]

The individual machines (if you have the space) or the programmable option for a single machine (if space is limited) would be the route I would go if I were looking to invest 10K into a shaper. But as others have said there are so many specifics that are unique to each individual shop and type of work.

While its no slider and kinda sucks (for me in my shop) that its 440, there is a nice 12HP Casadei on Woodweb's Machinery exchange. DRO's on the fence and spindle, completely programmable. Heck, with the money left over you could have few spare spindles with all your common profiles sitting on the rack and just chuck up the spindle and let the machine do the setup.

Mark

[Stephen Cherry]

scmi scmi

[jim mills]

Wow, great feedback everyone. I now realize there is no such thing as the ultimate shaper. There are a couple "used but never used" Laguna shapers on ebay for a great price. Hence the interest in that particular machine.
There are also a couple used SCMI machines listed as well, but how do I know that they aren't worn out and in need of rebuilding soon after I purchase them, and if so, how difficult and costly are they to repair?
There is also a programmable SCMI machine listed on woodweb (mentioned earlier in this thread) that looks nice as well, but what if the electronics dies? Would the machine be down for weeks, or even months, because a two cent transister died? Would parts even be available?

[Jeff Duncan]

There's only one way to find out the real condition of a used machine, and that's to see it in person. The only time I buy a machine without a full inspection is when it's cost is low enough to justify the risk. Auctions have been a very good source of machinery for me. Usually you can give the machine a good once over, but you don't get to run them. I've also bought stuff via Craigslist and had very good luck, plus more often you'll be able to see the machine run. Lastly there's used equipment dealers, if you find a good one you could do alright, but you'll pay a good deal more too!

Shapers are in general pretty simple machines, the older ones especially so. Newer models may have more gadgets like say auto spindle elevating which could require more attention. As for a basic shaper...quill bearings and spindle are your primary concern. Unless the machine has been abused, which is a very real possibility, the raising lowering mechanisms are pretty stout and shouldn't need much more than a good oiling. You want to make sure the bearings are in good shape, or if unsure, plan on replacing them. A good set of bearings will not be cheap, mine cost something like $700 for the pair. You also want to make sure the spindle is straight or again, plan on replacing it.

My Martin was a good example of an older machine that needed a fair amount of work. I thoroughly cleaned out the quill and lubrication pump, made some minor repairs to the quill cap, replaced all the oil seals and of course the bearings. I also pulled the motor and replaced the bearings then sent it off to get it balanced to the sheave, as it was obviously not original. I rewired part of the electrical and cleaned 40 years of crud and slight surface rust off her. I also had to have a new insert ring machined as the originals were all missing. All in all it took me about 3-4 weeks spending an hour or two where I could spare it. Material cost about $2k or so including a new spindle, quill bearings, motor bearings, balancing, and then all the little odds and ends like seals and oil and whatnot. At the end I have a machine that works as new and should easily last the rest of my lifetime that cost me not much more than what a new Powermatic 27 would cost....not including my time;)

As far your concern about the newer programmable machines I think it's justified. There's a nearby shop I occasionally have run moldings for me that has a CNC Martin shaper. It's a sweet machine, but last time I was there it had been down for a month. Problem is those 2 cent transistors retail for about $900! Well I'm not sure exactly what the part he needs is, but it's electronic, incredibly expensive, and you can't run the machine without it. I really don't have any experience with them to share though. My opinion would be they would be very beneficial to a business that's pumping out volume. Where spending a couple grand for a tech to come out and fix the machine might not be a big deal. For a small one man shop like me......I'll stick with the simple stuff for now:D

good luck,
JeffD

[J.R. Rutter]

I know nothing about Laguna, but SCMI has been pretty quick with parts for me. I had a bad speed control board on a used T130 Class that got replaced in about a week with the part shipped from Italy. SCM at least has a parts distribution center here in the US and a decent online parts web site. Tech support is OK. Paulo, the solid wood guy can be hard to reach, but does return calls and knows the machines well. In general, SCMI seems to specialize in building equipment for the upper/mid to high end industrial range and is a good value.

[jim mills]

So what is your technique for doing door edge profiles? I can't imagine anything being better than a sliding table shaper. Especially something like a flat panel door where there is little to rest on the table, or even a raised panel door where the back is recessed a bit. Seems a slider would shine here as well.

[Jay Brewer]

So what is your technique for doing door edge profiles? I can't imagine anything being better than a sliding table shaper. Especially something like a flat panel door where there is little to rest on the table, or even a raised panel door where the back is recessed a bit. Seems a slider would shine here as well.


A sliding table isn't very useful for door edges either. Unless they are narrow doors or drawer fronts, a sliding table would help keep the small pieces from diving into the cutter. A simple continuous fence or a rub bearing will do the same thing. I like the continuous fence the best for door edges and raised panels always with a power feeder.

A power feeder is going to give you a better, more consistent cut than a sliding table for door edges.

[J.R. Rutter]

I'm with Jay. A power feeder and continuous fence do a good job. I climb cut door edges to minimize chance of tearing out the edge of the profile. If you are removing an entire edge, like a jointing operation, then a slider might be better. But then you are limited in length. Sliders on shapers really shine for deep tenons, like windows and walk doors.

[jim mills]

Ah, I'm beginning to see the light, but can you explain the term "continuous fence"? thanks!

[Rod Sheridan]

Jim, a continuous fence is one that's made out of a piece of wood, and the cutter is advanced through it to make a zero clearance fence with no gaps.

It can also be a standard split fence with narrow metal bars inserted in the opening to provide a continuous guide surface for the work piece. This prevents the work from dropping into the opening slightly.

Have a look at Aigner accessories for shapers..................Regards, Rod.

[David Kumm]

Felder and others make a kit that you can use to make an adjustable fence. Thin metal bars bridge two pieces of subfence and move up and down in chanels. Great accessory. The aigner fence is the absolute best but needs a pretty big shaper to take advantage of it. Costs almost as much as a shaper though. Dave

[J.R. Rutter]

Here is an example of a shop made continuous fence setup that I used to use. It had dowels fixed in the original wooden fence plates to locate the plywood + aluminum auxilliary fence. Flip to run the continuous rail along the table.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Axc_HbXcUCk/S6AWRtZJAdI/AAAAAAAAAOc/d27ZXUefPkE/s640/DSCF0003.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hqurWTTRZG4/S6AV1AzjkWI/AAAAAAAAAOY/2ilIYTpxJU0/s640/DSCF0002.jpg

Here is an example of a basic aluminum fence. Not as fast to use as Aigner, but does have advantage of being able to easily fine tune exact height and size of cross pieces. You can also slip in sacrificial extensions or a solid piece to cut custom shaped openings for specific cutters.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-IV02cUoocSY/TMPSa488qRI/AAAAAAAAAt0/esoe3eYnkBw/s512/P1000632.JPG

[jim mills]

I see how that prevents the workpiece from diving into the cutter, but how do you feed something like the endgrain cut on a long narrow panel?

[Peter Quinn]

I just did a bunch of 6" panels about 28"-34" long with a simple continuous fence made of bb clamped to the main fence. I simply clamped the panels in pairs of two wit an f clamp, ran the end grain then removed the clamp and did the edges. Quick and painless. I've also used some 1/4" Masonite strips and double stick tape to do similar job, and have glued two panels together on edge then ripped to width and ran the edges to achieve similar.

[David Kumm]

although Aigner stuff is expensive, they make a cope cutter accessory for under $200 that works well particularly for smaller pieces that are hard to hold. Look at the felder catalog. I have bought Aigner from John Gubb in UK. Prices are good but shipping gets expensive so as high priced as felder is it is better if purchased alone. they make an accessory for the rail side as well. Dave

[jim mills]

can't seem to find the Aigner website.

[Jeff Duncan]

One reason I prefer using a sled for the copes is that I can profile really short pieces that I think would be either difficult or impossible with a slider.....depending on the specific type. With my jig I regularly do copes on pieces as short as 2-5/8" long. For passage doors I also use the jig as I'm coping only the profile and using loose tenons. I think the slider would excel with coping full tenons into the rails. That's something I would not want to try with my jigs:eek:

As for the Aigner that is something I've drooled over quite a bit, they start at about $1400 or so. Check www.simantechinc.com

good luck,
JeffD

[J.R. Rutter]

I see how that prevents the workpiece from diving into the cutter, but how do you feed something like the endgrain cut on a long narrow panel?

Ignore the profiles, this is just a quick super glue and sandpaper method that we use a lot. These little helpers are fast and easy to make, you can vary the size to whatever works for you.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Kcee4gj3Xwk/S6ERAkxXi_I/AAAAAAAAAPA/0qsdY0HLg3w/s800/IMG_0576.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jy1Q13xXVdg/S6ERBVHblLI/AAAAAAAAAPE/8NG2A3MhhJg/s800/IMG_0577.JPG

[Jeff Monson]

can't seem to find the Aigner website.

Jim, you can find what you are looking for on the Felder accessory website, they have the Aigner cope cutter, and they sell the Aigner fence system also (expensive but REALLY nice).

For your shaper, I'd give a look into the Felder line also, they offer 500, 700 and 900 series shapers. You can get a high speed router spindle, 30mm, 1 1/4" spindles for them, plus changing out spindles is very quick and easy. May be worth a trip to their website or give them a call, very professional and low pressure. I deal with Fergus, he is a top notch guy, its worth a phone call to see what they have to offer you. It wont be a waste of your time.

[jim mills]

Thanks Jeff, I've researched the Felders, but these guys have me convinced that a slider is a disadvantage unless I'm doing passage doors or windows.

[Jeff Monson]

Thanks Jeff, I've researched the Felders, but these guys have me convinced that a slider is a disadvantage unless I'm doing passage doors or windows.

Jim, Felder offers the 500 series shaper that does not have a slider if that is the route you want to go. I have used both (a powermatic pm2700 and now a felder), I'd take the slider any day of the week, its nice to clamp your workpiece and use the slider instead of making a sled or jig. I use my slider on the shaper mostly for tenoning and stile cuts. I would rather have it, than not.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks Jeff, I've researched the Felders, but these guys have me convinced that a slider is a disadvantage unless I'm doing passage doors or windows.

Jim, a slider is never a disadvantage since if you don't want the table to slide, you simply employ the table lock.

Then when you want a slider, you have it.

It's like a tilting spindle, it can save you a stack of money on cutters, need a 22 degree bevel to match some old window sills, no problem.

Regards, Rod.

[David Kumm]

Jim, Where are you located? Dave

[Jay Brewer]

Thanks Jeff, I've researched the Felders, but these guys have me convinced that a slider is a disadvantage unless I'm doing passage doors or windows.

I don't think anyone said it was a disadvantage to have a sliding table. The slider just is not all that good at the two operations you mentioned ( cope and door edges ). For general woodworking, i'm sure it would get some use, but for building RP cabinet doors, its just not the best solution. Like Rod said earlier, lock it down and it is same as any other shaper, but there if you need it.


I have the Aigner cope sled that was mentioned earlier and it does a nice job. I would much rather use it than set up a sliding table to do cope cuts.

[jim mills]

J.R. I would be scared as Hell to run this through a shaper and don't understand why clamping this workpiece to a sliding table crosscut fence would not be simpler and safer. I really appreciate all your input!


Ignore the profiles, this is just a quick super glue and sandpaper method that we use a lot. These little helpers are fast and easy to make, you can vary the size to whatever works for you.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Kcee4gj3Xwk/S6ERAkxXi_I/AAAAAAAAAPA/0qsdY0HLg3w/s800/IMG_0576.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jy1Q13xXVdg/S6ERBVHblLI/AAAAAAAAAPE/8NG2A3MhhJg/s800/IMG_0577.JPG

[Blaine Johnston]

I don't know anything about Laguna's shapers, but there are a couple of Laguna's other products in the wood shop I run at school. We have a great slot mortiser from them, and an Aweful drill press. Both are pretty much brand new. Judging by the engineering on the drill press I would not buy any of their products. The spindle/shaft is sloppy, the variable speed change is not good, the depth stop is not convenient to adjust (needs 2 wrenches), and the throw on it isn't very impressive (something like 3 inches of travel).
The slot mortiser on the other hand is a stout machine with a solid motor. I'm not sure about how easy it is to adjust the stops on it as I haven't used it personally.

I don't know about the shaper, but I'm probably going to stay away from it as a brand.

[Randy Henry]

I use this method all the time, its great, safe, and very ingenious. I think J.R. forgot to say that a powerfeed is required to use this method.

[J.R. Rutter]

I think J.R. forgot to say that a powerfeed is required to use this method.

Ha! That little detail does change things! I don't freehand anything on the shaper if I can help it.

[jim mills]

Ha! That little detail does change things! I don't freehand anything on the shaper if I can help it.


Now that makes sense! Is there any issue with the workpiece staying square?

[Larry Edgerton]

I just did a bunch of 6" panels about 28"-34" long with a simple continuous fence made of bb clamped to the main fence. I simply clamped the panels in pairs of two wit an f clamp, ran the end grain then removed the clamp and did the edges. Quick and painless. I've also used some 1/4" Masonite strips and double stick tape to do similar job, and have glued two panels together on edge then ripped to width and ran the edges to achieve similar.

I do a variation of this. When I have narrow panels I shape the end grain of more than one piece so it is wider and then cut the panels apart and do the sides. No clamps.

Larry

[jim mills]

How about spindle speed. I've found an almost new PM2700 from a local hobbiest for next to nothing but the shaper has only two speeds. 7500 & 10,000.

[Randy Henry]

Jim, I have never had any squareness issues doing this. I make sure my carrier jig is square. With the sandpaper and down pressure of the feeder, there is no way the work can move, plus you get a backup board that eliminates tearout on the endgrain.

[Jeff Duncan]

You'll only need slower speeds if your going to start spinning some fairly large heads. For cabinet doors and such stuff you'll never drop it down.

Only thing is your going from a fully loaded fairly robust shaper to an entry level model? Granted it will probably do most of what you want, but it's certainly not the same class of machine you started out looking for.

just saying....

Jeff

[jim mills]

Point well taken Jeff. I was thinking I could get this shaper up and running, invest in some tooling and get more of a feel for what my needs are before investing in more machine.




Only thing is your going from a fully loaded fairly robust shaper to an entry level model? Granted it will probably do most of what you want, but it's certainly not the same class of machine you started out looking for.

just saying....

Jeff

[Jeff Duncan]

I think that's a sound idea. It's easy for others, myself included, to say buy bigger, bigger, bigger, but in reality there is something to be said for growing into your equipment. I started with a little Delta HD shaper and built some doors and other misc stuff over which time I learned what I didn't like about it. Then I got the Powermatic and used that for a couple years, again learning it's limitations and becoming more comfortable running different types of things. I picked up the tilt shaper along the way and kept learning. When I saw the Martin come up I knew it would be a huge improvement and I was at a point where I was ready for the upgrade. This has been the case for most of the equipment in my shop.

Anyway just my long winded way of saying do what's right for you. I think the Powermatic will do most of what you want and you may never outgrow it. And you can use that money you save for other things....like some cutters for instance!

good luck,
JeffD