Identify this oldish looking Craftsman on Craigslist?

[John W Henderson]

What is this: http://duluth.craigslist.org/tls/2514684574.html

Initially it looked like a cabinet saw, but the motor obviously hangs out the back. Looks pretty old, but for $225 (or whatever offer the guy will take), is it a good deal?

[Bill Huber]

Here is the cover of the 1955 Craftsman tool catalog and it sure looks a lot like it. I think the motor was on the outside of this one, not sure but when you read the write up in the catalog you could buy a large motor and it came with different pulleys. So from what I can see it looks like some time in the 1950s

Here is a link to 1954s
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=11174
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=3972
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=12359
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=10645
Another one, no data
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=8386


205456

[scott spencer]

A friend of mine has an older 1955 Cman contractor saw that looks a great deal like that, but doesn't have the full length enclosure. I think these were made by King-Seeley. I love the shopmade wheels. My guess is that those older 1hp motors run stronger than newer 1hp motors, so it should run pretty strong. That could be an interesting saw if you put a new fence on it (so add $150), and it could look beautiful if repainted and cleaned up....I've seen pics of a couple on these boards that have been restored....very sharp! While it's a cool saw, $225 might be a little steep IMO, but I don't really know what these sell for (they're less common than the Emerson made contractor saws. If it runs well, you might try explaining your situation, and offer him what you can afford or what you think it's worth to you. Let us know how you make out!

[John W Henderson]

Here is the cover of the 1955 Craftsman tool catalog and it sure looks a lot like it. I think the motor was on the outside of this one, not sure but when you read the write up in the catalog you could buy a large motor and it came with different pulleys. So from what I can see it looks like some time in the 1950s.

Wow -- amazing digging. Those look really close. They really do clean up nicely!! Thanks for the help.

[John W Henderson]

A friend of mine has an older 1955 Cman contractor saw that looks a great deal like that, but doesn't have the full length enclosure. I think these were made by King-Seeley. I love the shopmade wheels. My guess is that those older 1hp motors run stronger than newer 1hp motors, so it should run pretty strong. That could be an interesting saw if you put a new fence on it (so add $150), and it could look beautiful if repainted and cleaned up....I've seen pics of a couple on these boards that have been restored....very sharp! While it's a cool saw, $225 might be a little steep IMO, but I don't really know what these sell for (they're less common than the Emerson made contractor saws. If it runs well, you might try explaining your situation, and offer him what you can afford or what you think it's worth to you. Let us know how you make out!

Thanks! Yes, the pictures Bill Huber found at OWWM look amazing. That thing cleans up incredibly well. That'd be a lot of work. Would they have used TEFC/induction motors back then?

[jared herbert]

The $225 you would spend on this saw would get you a lot nicer saw than any new or recently used saw that cost the same$$$$. I had a craftsman table saw that was made in 1973, I sold itand wished I had kept it for a second saw. Jared

[Dick Brown]

Buy it!!
I bought on of these little gems and it is my "go to" saw for smaller stuff. The fence is fine if you keep the tapered track waxad a bit and watch what you are doing. It will ride up and get crooked if you don't but is ok after you get used to it. Had mine powder coated,new belts, new blade, and ZC insert. Love it. Would I be happy with it as an only saw if I were doing a lot of heavy rips? No, but I have a 3hp cabinet saw for that. Would I sell it? Next after the wife, kids and dogs! No comparison with the Emerson built saws.
Saw a few on http://www.allofcraigs.com/ a few days back. searched for craftsman cabinet saw I think. Mine is a Mdl.27270 but there were other numbers but what looked like the same saw. You might look under King Seeley on OWWM also.

[John W Henderson]

Buy it!!
I bought on of these little gems and it is my "go to" saw for smaller stuff. The fence is fine if you keep the tapered track waxad a bit and watch what you are doing. It will ride up and get crooked if you don't but is ok after you get used to it. Had mine powder coated,new belts, new blade, and ZC insert. Love it. Would I be happy with it as an only saw if I were doing a lot of heavy rips? No, but I have a 3hp cabinet saw for that. Would I sell it? Next after the wife, kids and dogs! No comparison with the Emerson built saws.
Saw a few on http://www.allofcraigs.com/ a few days back. searched for craftsman cabinet saw I think. Mine is a Mdl.27270 but there were other numbers but what looked like the same saw. You might look under King Seeley on OWWM also.

Huh -- I'll have to consider this. He still has it. It's like a 2hr drive from me, but maybe I can lowball for $100 and see what he says. I don't think it has all the original panels -- looks like the back is wood with regular hardware store hinges on it or something compared to the OWWM pictures above that look like a metal screen/door or something.

This is a weird looking one, too: http://stcloud.craigslist.org/for/2544144042.html

(http://stcloud.craigslist.org/for/2544144042.html)Pedestal vs. a surrounding cabinet? Looks really old and is only $40. I'm really hoping for something that once refinished would be functionally sound. I would like to avoid the "double purchase" of some mediocre saw for $200 and then need a $200+ fence. If this fence is actually reasonable, I'll definitely consider this. Again, would it have a decent motor, or would that require an upgrade? Parts availability? Add-ons? Would these all suffer due to age/scarcity of this model?

As in say the motor did go... would it need some odd motor or would any standard one fit it?

[Doug Colombo]

Just bought one that looks almost the same off CL for my son in law - paid $150 for it. So far he is happy with it. I had an old Craftsman TS and did replace the motor when it went with one that I ordered and had no issues with the retrofit - bolted right on.

[John W Henderson]

Wow -- been looking at OWWM and can't believe how many old Craftsmans there are like that around. Here's some more:

- http://stcloud.craigslist.org/for/2544144042.html
(http://stcloud.craigslist.org/for/2544144042.html)- http://rmn.craigslist.org/tls/2480137743.html (looks really neat, especially since it's a jointer as well!)
- http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/tls/2553242145.html (looks in great shape and has a huuuuge table)
- http://masoncity.craigslist.org/grd/2482024521.html

(http://masoncity.craigslist.org/grd/2482024521.html)Anyway, I'll keep my eyes on this as well. That $40 one on the pedestal is intriguing...

I'm hesitant about the original one I posted (http://duluth.craigslist.org/tls/2514684574.html) because it looks like they did some funny things to the front and back whereas the OWWM ones like that have full cabinets. Any ideas as to what's going on there? The seller emailed me back. He wants to move it, so I could perhaps just lowball at some figure and see what happens. Any suggestions as to what to offer? $100? $75? I don't want to be insulting, but don't want to pay $200 for something that isn't as restorable as I thought (like if the cabinet has already been Frankensteined with homemade holes and things). I'd love to restore something but want to know that 1) the main input is blood and sweat, not $$ and 2) that when I'm done, it'll have been worth it.

Thanks for the input.

[Dick Brown]

John,

The wood door on the back is just covering the dust cute (If you want to call it that) that dumps the dust out the back. Mine had a non original 2 1/2 inch sheet metal lip sticking out that will let you catch the sawdust in a box if you want. The tray on the front looks as if it is just held on with a couple of screws. Holes could be pluged and painted over. Wheels on the back came off someone's baby stroller looks like and would be trash. Build a nice mobile base and your set. I see it has the belt gaurd which a lot of them don't. I live in Oregon and have 3 tablesaws in my shop but if it were close, I would have 4 if I could get it under $200.
The other saws posted on this thread have no interest to me but "one man's passion is another man's poison". Note that one of the combo units has a tilt top saw rather than tilt blade. O.K. for an old tool collector but not much fun to use every day. 12 blades, some new -- $?? Could bring what the saw cost down a bunch or could be junk.

[john davey]

I have had maybe a half dozen Craftmans and I liked them all. Solid little saws. I have had 8inchers and 10 inchers. The cabinet one I have not had as they are much harder to come by. I think the only negative is the fence on these can be a little clunkier than a new fence. But if you are looking to upgrade the fence they are Great saws... Jphn

[John W Henderson]

The wood door on the back is just covering the dust cute (If you want to call it that) that dumps the dust out the back. Mine had a non original 2 1/2 inch sheet metal lip sticking out that will let you catch the sawdust in a box if you want.

I was more concerned with the front panel shown under the tray. I can't tell if that's original or not. I'm hoping it's solid sheet metal just like the OWWM pictures. That way, after removing the tray and patching/sanding the holes with Bondo or something, the whole front would look fantastic. If there's something goofy up with that bottom middle section of the front, though, I'm not so sure...


The other saws posted on this thread have no interest to me but "one man's passion is another man's poison". Note that one of the combo units has a tilt top saw rather than tilt blade.

What would be poison? Just unsure about how worth a restore they are? That pedestal one seems neat. I think it's perhaps one of these two from OWWM:
- http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=9728
- http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=12214


12 blades, some new -- $?? Could bring what the saw cost down a bunch or could be junk.

Could you explain that? As in perhaps I could pass on the blades and lower the price? Or are you saying the blades could be junk? Or that the saw could be junk?

[John W Henderson]

This is so addicting. The world of old Craftsmans is so intriguing. There's even more:

- 113.1011: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/tls/2498899110.html (on OWWM here: http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=10595)
- http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/tls/2538779873.html
(http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/tls/2538779873.html)
Tiny motors, though. Was that common back then? I called the guy about the original saw in this post (the fully enclosed one). Hope to hear back.

[Dick Brown]

John,
The comment on the blades, if you bought the saw with the blades and the blades were worth $50. or what ever, and you had a use for them, then you could think of the saw itself costing $50. less than you paid for the lot. If the blades are of no use to you, and not something you could sell without a big hassel, then the blades would be no better than junk that you would need to get rid of.
On the poison comment, some folks would love to have a saw like the tilt top - jointer combo. I have had some of that vintage stuff, had a passion for it and had fun fooling with it but at this point in my life don't want to waste the shop space or time on it. Time, shop space and present personal taste defines whether it is passion or poison. As you might have figured out, I like my saw like the one we are talking about. Only you know what kind of saw you need/want and if this is something you want to invest the $ and sweat in. As to the fence comment in the post by John Davey, this saw has a much better fence than the Craftsman built by Emerson saws ever thought of. I do speak from experience as I have bought, repaired, replaced parts, built Biesi. clone fences for and sold in the neighborhood of twenty of them. Speaking of passion, I had a passion for doing that. The saws were fine but the fences were not so hot. Would not mess with the direct drive ones though.

[John W Henderson]

Ok, here's were I stand...

Talked with the gentleman who owns the "cabinet-looking" Craftsman (http://duluth.craigslist.org/tls/2514684574.html). Thick northern MN/Dakotas/Canadian accent :) The saw was his uncle's who bought it new. He inherited it about 6-8 years ago and said it works great. No blade guard, which was disappointing. He said he's been gradually lowering the price because he's moving and just needs to get rid of his bigger stuff. He said "the first one with cash in hand gets it, but I don't want to give it away, either." So... not sure how much I could haggle down for. I'd like to get a blade guard/splitter on this if possible. I guess the restored links above from Vintage Machinery don't show any with a blade guard... maybe they didn't have one.

So, you guys think this is a good investment? I'm pretty excited but am also back and forth between this and something more recent like a Grizzly G1022 or Ridgid 3650. Would anyone have any hesitations between this saw and those? My primary interest is robust mechanisms and alignment. If this saw has those, I'm getting it.

My wife is all in for a day trip to Duluth (2-2.5 hours away) to get it. Couldn't really believe it, but she's quite supportive and loved the restoration pics. I think that sold it to her, so thanks Bill Huber.

I'm thinking I'll offer $150 and see what happens. I'll complain a little about the non-original door in the back, no blade guard (safety card), and wife who doesn't want me to spend much.

Thanks for any final input. He works Sunday, so I'm waiting to see if his son will be around to sell it to me.

[NICK BARBOZA]

I have one I'm trying to sell. Its not the full cabinet but same style. I installed a 34" rip capacity Bies. on it. I was thinking of asking $200-250 for it....

But perhaps the market for these things is different here in Maine. It was a good saw and served me well while i was in college and getting my feet wet with WW. I have since bought a Sawstop ICS and kept the C'man in my shop for 2.5 years thinking a two saw setup was going to be a big time saver and add versatility to my shop. For me, it didn't; I probably used it 4 times since buying my new saw.

Good luck,
NWB

[John W Henderson]

I have one I'm trying to sell. Its not the full cabinet but same style. I installed a 34" rip capacity Bies. on it. I was thinking of asking $200-250 for it....

Do you have some pictures/the CL listing? I would figure with a Bies fence you'd get that price for sure??

Some questions:
- Is the saw accurate? Arbor runout? Anything getting loose such that you think these says have issues of losing accuracy as they age?
- What about blade guard, splitter, etc? What do you do for that? Is it important and if not, why not? If so, what are my options for this?

We might make a trip of going to see this on Sunday, so I'd really like to know how realistic this saw could be in terms of serving a hobbyist woodworker for say 5-10 years. Thanks!

[NICK BARBOZA]

John,

No pics since I hadn't yet posted it online. But I did sell it Saturday at a yard sale for $200. Probably could have asked more but i'm happy to pay it forward for some other woodworker's gloat worthy purchase. Lord knows I've received my share of those.

the saw is as accurate as you want to make it... I know that's kind of a BS response, but its true. I'm not the type so spend 6hrs setting up a machine dialed into the .001. just not me... The original fence was absolute trash, so I upgraded to the Bies, and it served me well for about 3 years. The saw as a whole certainly was not falling apart, but it was older technology, showing its age.

I did not have a blade guard or a splitter. Would have been nice to have in my early days of WW, but the few scary moments without them taught me some good lessons. Not sure of aftermarket options as i never researched it.

Overall the saw was good and worked for me, but I out grew it. My skills and expectations for the machine were beyond what it could provide. It did not like ripping 8/4 and hated ripping 12/4; both of which I use regularly. I know others have had this saw for 40 years and has served them well. I wanted more power, rip capacity and all around fit and finish. All of which i received from my purchase of a new cabinet saw.

If I were to do it again, the only thing I might do differently is buying the Bies fence sooner. The C'man carried me through my learning stages until i could afford to buy a new saw. My only other words of 'wisdom'; depending on where you plan to take this hobby/semi-pro/pro activity, you will likely upgrade to something else in time.

Good luck.
NWB

[John W Henderson]

No pics since I hadn't yet posted it online. But I did sell it Saturday at a yard sale for $200. Probably could have asked more but i'm happy to pay it forward for some other woodworker's gloat worthy purchase. Lord knows I've received my share of those.

Indeed -- congrats on the sale!


the saw is as accurate as you want to make it... I know that's kind of a BS response, but its true. I'm not the type so spend 6hrs setting up a machine dialed into the .001. just not me... The original fence was absolute trash, so I upgraded to the Bies, and it served me well for about 3 years. The saw as a whole certainly was not falling apart, but it was older technology, showing its age.

Sure. That makes sense. What part "shows it's age" or is "older technology" -- other than the fence, perhaps, or the 1HP motor if you wanted more?


Overall the saw was good and worked for me, but I out grew it. My skills and expectations for the machine were beyond what it could provide. It did not like ripping 8/4 and hated ripping 12/4; both of which I use regularly. I know others have had this saw for 40 years and has served them well. I wanted more power, rip capacity and all around fit and finish.

Fair enough. We'll see what I think of mine (just bought this on on Sunday!). I have hardly ever needed to cut 2" stuff, and don't think I've ever cut 3". I've been making mostly picture frames and cribbage boards, so more like 0.75 - 1.5".


If I were to do it again, the only thing I might do differently is buying the Bies fence sooner. The C'man carried me through my learning stages until i could afford to buy a new saw. My only other words of 'wisdom'; depending on where you plan to take this hobby/semi-pro/pro activity, you will likely upgrade to something else in time.

We'll see. It may do fine for my level of usage. Anything up from my current saw is an improvement. Heck, maybe I'll end up refurbing it, using it for a while, and then upgrading. We'll see. From what I looked at, I was either looking at a Delta/Ridgid/Grizzly contractor, or a cabinet saw with the same fence issues + needing refurb + about 3-4x the cost. So... for where I am and what I needed and how much I had... it was the deal for me :)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[Curt Harms]

No pics didn't happen :). Congratulations on your purchase.

[John W Henderson]

No pics didn't happen :). Congratulations on your purchase.

Sorry... been kind of double posting as this thread and another converged. Nevertheless, I got the same request over there, so here you are: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?171004-Advice-on-potential-table-saw-buy-Delta-Model-10&p=1763503#post1763503

[Jim German]

I use my grandfathers old craftsman saw from 1953, still has the original motor, which is only rated at 1.5hp, yet I've never had a problem cutting anything, goes through a 4" thick oak board without difficulty. The saw in general works great, although a nicer fence and bigger table wouldn't hurt.