sharpening

[michael a nelson]

i want to get some more sharpening stuff (stones,ect.) but am un-sure of what to get next so far my set up consists of :
two shapton glass stones 1000 and 4000 grit
three king stones a 1000 a 4000/800 grit combo and a 6000 grit
a bunch of oil stones
a hard black Arkansas
a work sharp 3000 with the honing abrasives kit and strops
the rob cosman angle trainer
and a large stone pond/sharpening bench in the works
what else should i get also this setup is not only for wwing it is for sharpening knifes as well so what else would you recommend

thanks in advance

also have the stuff for the scary sharp method and a granite plate

[Ashwini Kaul]

You seem to have everything!!
A few different methods...
Maybe a couple of DVDs and lots of practise?

[Mike Davis NC]

Get a handle..

on one method and stick with it, let it become second nature so you don't have to think about it. Just do it.

You have way too many things and not enough experience.

[michael a nelson]

which method do you think would be the best one to stick with ?

[Gary Curtis]

+ 1 on the advice to use a single method. You'll then develop a feel for the elusive question : Is that enough yet? Otherwise you'll grind your blades — and the edge — into oblivion.

Except for a few oddly shaped tools (a froe, an axe) I use the Veritas power grinder. And only a touch-up with the finest grits.

[michael a nelson]

also i want to add a pump to my stone pond so i can take water from the pond and put it up through a pipe then over the stone bridge on my pond so it can keep the stones wet when i sharpen ill post a pic later

[michael a nelson]

never mind i cant do it on sketch up so you'll just have to imagine it

[Chris Tsutsui]

I attended a sharpening demo from Rob Cosman in vegas.

He only needed 3 items.

1. 1000 grit shapton
2. 16,000 grit shapton
3. Shapton diamond flattening stone (rubbed vigorously for a few seconds on the stone prior to use)

He said if you can't afford the shapton diamond flattening stone (which is pricey), then don't bother with his system because you need an absolutely flat stone.

For sharpening the planes, he used a thin steel ruler on the sharpening stone which gave a very small angle to the plane blade back. He did this trick to polish a very small back bevel / or basically to remove the wire edge perhaps.

His technique was awsome and fast, his plane took a shaving so thin it would float in the air like a piece of grocery bag. The shavings also had a static cling to them and they were sticking to his clothing...

If you do a lot of sharpening then woodcraft actually sells a 10,000 grit diamond plate that will be more durable than the shaptons. I have no idea whether that will be comparable to a 10K grit shapton, but at least you won't have to buy the shapton diamond tool and flatten every stone before use...

[Myk Rian]

I use glass and sandpaper.
Oh, and a Veritas jig.

[michael a nelson]

the rob cosman method is the one im liking the most anyone have any thoughts on the water pump idea for the pond

[Peter Scoma]

the rob cosman method is the one im liking the most anyone have any thoughts on the water pump idea for the pond

Yes, it seems unnecessary. You are honing a fine edge not cutting marble slabs. Even if you did chose to move forward with this idea it would make your sharpening more difficult. Remember that the slurry that is created on a stone is what does the majority of the cutting. If you have water constantly pouring over the stone you will be washing away the slurry.

FWIW, I have accumulated nearly everything you listed and have gotten the best results from a 1x3ft 3/8in pane of glass, a can of spray adhesive, and 12 grits of sandpaper. If I am rehabbing an old chisel, ill shape the edge on a 100 grit and progress through 4000 grit to get a razor edge. I sometimes use an MKII jig, especially when shaping a bevel but am competent freehand as well. My advice would be to practice with what you have and see which method works best for you.

Peter

[michael a nelson]

i see what you mean what about if the water just fell back into the pond to create movement so i could leave the same water with all my stones in it the majority of the time with out the water getting nasty ill be messing around with the idea tomorrow so hopefully ill have some cool pictures to post

[Peter Scoma]

i see what you mean what about if the water just fell back into the pond to create movement so i could leave the same water with all my stones in it the majority of the time with out the water getting nasty ill be messing around with the idea tomorrow so hopefully ill have some cool pictures to post

Michael, with all due respect, you don't seem to really value the wisdom of other members so please, feel free to make a fountain in your stone pond. If you decide at some point to return to the pursuit of razor sharp tools, heed the advice in this thread.

Peter

[Mike Davis NC]

You don't need nor want a pond with Shapton stone, that is the whole point with them. Just a small spray bottle is all they require.

Since you have them add a 16,000 grit and the flattening stone and that is all you will ever need. Pack up everything else and sell it, give it away or bury it.

Work on getting your technique down pat then quit worrying about it.

[Kurt Cady]

A few months back he was bragging about the huge amount of cash in his account in order to build a new shop. My advice: buy anything and everything you can think of in the way of sharpening. Buy doubles. Maybe triples. Get out there and stimulate the economy. You never listen to anyone here anyway.

[Richard Jones]

..... My advice: buy anything and everything you can think of in the way of sharpening. Buy doubles. Maybe triples. Get out there and stimulate the economy.........................

And then sell the remainder for 10% of the new price on the SMC classifieds..............with free shipping, of course...... :)

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

One item I see missing is a very coarse stone. I have a very coarse water stone (220 maybe). I rarely use it, but when I do it's great. Far more accurate than a grinder (for chisels and straight plane blades).

[Peter Scoma]

You could also buy a high school English book and learn how to use punctuation.

[michael a nelson]

never mind the pictures wont load ill try again in a little bit once i cool down a bit if the thread isnt shut down by then

[John A. Callaway]

WOW !!!

Start with one of the really good books on sharpening by Hock or Lee.
That would be the best way to spend the cash that is burning in your pocket.

( oh, and king stones only need to soak for ten to twenty minutes before use, with them soaking during sharpening while not in use , when you are done, take them out the water and let them dry out. )

[michael a nelson]

205517i needed to add length to the massage

[John A. Callaway]

what are we looking at exactly ?

( Massage is the manipulation of superficial and deeper layers of muscle and connective tissue to enhance function, aid in the healing process, and promote relaxation and well-being )

[michael a nelson]

sorry about that spelled message wrong typing way to fast well to start with i want to apologize for ranting and and swearing secondly i do try to take as much knowledge as i can
so the bench is 34 inches to the top and it is solid oak frame under the cement board it is 63 inches by 17 inches
the back wall and bench top is oak wood flooring i plan on tiling the base with some left over tile and the pond should be finished tomorrow the bench is in my basement shop (temporary kurt) until we can get the house finished and get permits for the garage and start breaking ground ill post more pics tomorrow if the thread isnt shut down

[Myk Rian]

Why would the thread be shut down. I'm enjoying it.

[michael a nelson]

myk you must have missed the previous post im glad your enjoying it

[michael a nelson]

john do all stones have to dry out i would like to leave them in the water but if it will cause damage to the stone i wont i want to be able to do my sharpening as fast as possible with out having to wait for stones to soak but then again i guess thats what shaptons are for

[Peter Scoma]

So is the picture you posted of a bench that will be used for sharpening? Your initial post was asking about which sharpening method is most effective. Then you spoke of some type of stone pond fountain, now I see a blurry picture of a bench. :confused:

Just to clarify I have no idea what this thread is about.

PJS

-Also, please put some commas and periods in your sentences as they are annoying to read without.

[michael a nelson]

A few months back he was bragging about the huge amount of cash in his account in order to build a new shop. My advice: buy anything and everything you can think of in the way of sharpening. Buy doubles. Maybe triples. Get out there and stimulate the economy. You never listen to anyone here anyway.

kurt i have one question why ,why do you feel the need to comment and insult me every time i post something grow up

[michael a nelson]

i was taking the picture on my way out the door and you kneed a reality check if you think you can go around nit picking my every word get a life and go do something productive and if it is that annoying then dont read it

[John A. Callaway]

john do all stones have to dry out i would like to leave them in the water but if it will cause damage to the stone i wont i want to be able to do my sharpening as fast as possible with out having to wait for stones to soak but then again i guess thats what shaptons are for

You dont have to let them dry out, but some folks have had problems with king stones crumbling along the edges, not to mention when winter comes. If your shop is not heated properly, you risk the water getting cold enough to start freezing, which will crack the stones. I keep my stones in a large tupperware container under the sink. If I am heading out to the shop I fill the tub up, and take it with me out there. When I am done working wood for the day I pour the water out and take the tupperware tub with me back into the house. This way the stones are wet if I need to sharpen, If not , I just dont use them.

And yes, having the luxury of shapton glass stones only requires a squirt bottle to wet the stone surface .

[Prashun Patel]

Michael-
for speed, you might try the Worksharp. It's a lot less messy, and can put a quick hone on a chisel or plane blade. Or, you can use it like many do for regrinding and use yr finer stones for honing. I think it's a great compliment to yr arsenal. I would advise, though, that you build a little stand next to it so you can sharpen above the table, instead of using that underside port.

I'm no moderator, but I am a little disappointed at the nitpicking going on here. The thing I've liked about SMC is the generous advice without a lot of color commentary (read, personal attacks) that I find on some forums.

[michael a nelson]

prashun by stand do you mean an angled deck above so i would be grinding on the top side of the work sharp instead of the bottom?

[Prashun Patel]

Michael-
Almost. It's an above 'deck', but it's flat and perfectly level with the spinning wheel. You then use a honing guide to hold the blade at the proper angle. This is nice because it lets you go back and forth between the WS and your stones.

Some people like to do the rough stuff on the WS and then use the stones to hone.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?146283-Worksharp-Shopmade-Wide-Blade-Platform&highlight=worksharp+platform

[michael a nelson]

ohhh.... i see now that is a good idea i might start to work on one after i build the bench thanks prashun i would have never thought of that

[michael a nelson]

more pics
205572205573205574205575

[michael a nelson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9L3vcWUHoQ
the pump is now hooked up

[Peter Scoma]

Nice work. You are clearly on your way to sharper edges.

PJS

[John Coloccia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9L3vcWUHoQ
the pump is now hooked up

Why did you add a pump to recirculate the water in your pond? If someone brought me the best waterstone on the planet and said, "Hey, can you help me come up with a way to make it so my waterstone doesn't work anymore", I would immediately come back with, "Well, you could run it under water the whole time so a slurry never develops." I also hope you have an easy way to dump the water out of the pond. That will turn nasty in a couple weeks time, plus it will start building up slurry...the pump had better have a very good filter on it. It's better to work out these kinks now before getting too far into your project. You really should loose that pump, though. A spray bottle is a better choice.

[michael a nelson]

yes i have installed a drain plug in the bottom of the tub to drain the water every week

[brian c miller]

I am still confused by this thread. :confused:

If you have glass stone you don't need to soak them. Just spritz and go.

I would get a granite surface plate, 220 grit wet dry paper (to flatten the stone and "grind" a bevel). Even a "B" grade surface plate is flat to .0002 over a 12x18 plate. Plenty flat for the stones. Then add a 8,000 16,000 glasstone for the final edge.

Get rid of everything else and practice.

The pump seems neat but I don't see how it will help main't a sharp edge.

BCM.

[michael a nelson]

its not really necessary for getting a sharp edge its just me toying around with the idea of having a deluxe sharpening bench and the pump isnt a new idea look at William ng's sharpening bench and i want to keep all my sharpening stuff and i plan on getting a piece of granite for the top and another piece of granite for restoring hand planes

[Peter Scoma]

its not really necessary for getting a sharp edge its just me toying around with the idea of having a deluxe sharpening bench and the pump isnt a new idea look at William ng's sharpening bench and i want to keep all my sharpening stuff and i plan on getting a piece of granite for the top and another piece of granite for restoring hand planes

Why don't you stop buying stuff, LISTEN to the advice given in the last 3 pages of this thread, and FOLLOW the advice you asked for! You don't need a "deluxe sharpening bench" to hold a stone that is lubricated with water from a 99 cent spray bottle.

PJS

[michael a nelson]

peter why cant i have a little fun with the idea of having a really nice sharpening bench i love to sharpen and i want my bench to reflect that and why do you continue to read and comment on all my posts when you your self said " please use punctuation this is annoying to read without" and please quit pm'ing me its annoying if you want to say it be man enough to post it on the thread

[David Wong]

Michael -

Neat sharpening pond. I have a number of stones that really benefit from being fed continuous water. I use a 220 grit arato (i.e. "the pink brick") and the Beston 500 grit stones for rough work, partially submerged in water. I find the stones clog easily if not very frequently washed. My Kings also cut faster with a lot of water, to continuously expose a new cutting surface and to wash away the swarf. Make sure you are able to adjust your water flow to a dribble as the stones don't typically need a large flow. In my sharpening routine, the operation that is the messiest and uses the most water, is flattening the stones with a diamond plate. I use a lot of water washing the diamond plate after use to prevent clogging. On my finish stones, I use the minimum amount of water necessary to preserve the slurry.

[David Wong]

I forgot to add that one item that really helps my sharpening is a 15x magnifier from Lee Valley. It is quick to use for inspection, and has a built in LED light.

- David

[michael a nelson]

thanks david i also find that my kings work faster with alot of water i have yet to add some of the coarse stones that you have but im sure some will come could you post a picture of you bench so i could get some more ideas

[michael a nelson]

205876william ng using his sharpening pond

[michael a nelson]

so i have been sharpenig for a while using all of the systems i have been liking free hand on japanese water stones i find that a slurry is counter active in the sharpening of a blade in that it is making more work then it is saving there for les benificial to getting a supper keen edge the way i see it is that when you are sharpening you want the edge to contact as little abonormality in the stone as posible to it is best to face the cutting edge away from you and pull the blade twords you when doing final sharpening that way the blade will sort of "glide" over imperfectons in the surface and not "bump" into them their for dulling the cutting edge very lightly the slurry i find if you are sharpening all you are doing is pushing the cutting edge into a buch of grit and dulling it let me know if im in the right state if mind or am i just nuts and please provide an explination as to why you think this way

[Mark W Pugh]

I attended a sharpening demo from Rob Cosman in vegas.

He only needed 3 items.

1. 1000 grit shapton
2. 16,000 grit shapton
3. Shapton diamond flattening stone (rubbed vigorously for a few seconds on the stone prior to use)

He said if you can't afford the shapton diamond flattening stone (which is pricey), then don't bother with his system because you need an absolutely flat stone.

For sharpening the planes, he used a thin steel ruler on the sharpening stone which gave a very small angle to the plane blade back. He did this trick to polish a very small back bevel / or basically to remove the wire edge perhaps.

His technique was awsome and fast, his plane took a shaving so thin it would float in the air like a piece of grocery bag. The shavings also had a static cling to them and they were sticking to his clothing...

If you do a lot of sharpening then woodcraft actually sells a 10,000 grit diamond plate that will be more durable than the shaptons. I have no idea whether that will be comparable to a 10K grit shapton, but at least you won't have to buy the shapton diamond tool and flatten every stone before use...

Don't know if this is the guy, but this seems fairly easy to follow series.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2CDE5E71790E9165

[Marty Paulus]

Mike, As you put it you may be just nuts :D. By pulling the blade toward you with the edge away you are creating what is known as a wire edge. It feels sharp as all get out but is extremely fragile. You may also notice it will be felt on the upside of the blade after pulling it toward you. The logic for pushing the edge into the stone is that is polishes that wire edge out and leaves you with a sharp intersection of two surfaces. Once you sharpen a blade to the point where the wire edge is gone you will truely understand what sharp can be.