honing tools

[lou sansone]

hi turners


this is my first post on the turner forum. I have been turning for several years, but still not very good compared to those english chaps! My question is about sharpening and honing turning tools. I will keep it simple ....

I usually grind to 30 degrees for my roughing gouge and then hone it on a hard felt wheel. Seems to work pretty good, but how about you folks. grind and hone? grind and don't hone, grind and use a slip stone.... looking for opinions
thanks
lou

[mark hankey]

hi lou,

i am very new to turning, and i have just started out,
but with regards to honing, i can say that i have experience.
as i am a wood carver. once you have ground your tool to your angle,
you should always hone it to take out the minor imperfections,
and sharpen the tool, you say you have a felt wheel,what compound do you use? also after grinding try to smooth it off as much as possible.
just like sanding a piece of wood! where you start with a course grade and work down to smooth.this will reduce the amount of honing to be done!
i personally, start with grinding "if needed" then smooth the edge down to a fine grade, on a sanding wheel, then hone it with either a "diamond file" or a slip stone, also i finish it off with my buffing wheel wich i have fitted to my bench grinder, "jewellers rouge" or some similler compound,
and dont forget to hone the inside bevel.
then you will have the sharpest tools around!
i hope this helps you,

mark.

[Jim Becker]

I pretty much never hone turning tools...they get sharpend so frequently that it would just be an extra step that doesn't provide enough "extra" to warrant, at least for me. The edges I get right off the grinder work wonderfullly. (Wolverine system) I have used a water stone or diamond honing stick to touch up an edge on tools that get sporatic use to save time, however.

[Andy London]

I never hone my turning tools either, except for the parting tool but even that is rare.

As Jim mentions the Wolverine jig will put an edge back on your roughing gouge in seconds. There are different qualities in HSS turning tools also, I believe I read an article in an English paper on how the different manufacturers tools are graded. Personally most of my tools are Taylor and they hold an edge very, very well.

With the grinder and Wolverine set up next to the lathe, it becomes second nature to touch up the tools as required while turning.

Andy

[Bob Winkler]

Hi Lou,

Now you know I'm no lathe expert, but as usual I read a ton of turning books and watched Richard Raffan's video and this is my take. Most of the "experts" I've read don't hone because they feel a quick grinding is effective enough and quick enough to get back to turning asap. Whether they freehand or use jigs, most don't hone and my take is that even an "imperfect" edge will cut the wood very well.

After a couple of weeks now, I have to agree. Wood is no match for metal, honed or not.

PS: that tiger maple you gave me has incredible figure. It's stunning!

Bob

[lou sansone]

thanks for the info.... As far as honing goes I have tired a number of different rouges and found that the lee valley green seems to work the best. I have ground and not honed ( I think I use a 8" 120 grit purple stone on a 1750rpm grinder that is diamond dressed ) and that works pretty good, but I have found that the tool cuts better and last longer when I hone it ( the hard felt wheel takes about 5 seconds to hone and then I am back to the lathe). As was mentioned I touch up the inside bur as well.


All of my tools are M2 HHS, decent english stuff ( taylor, sorby and ? ) . I have seen the english chaps use a sanding wheel thing. What type of sanding setup do you mark?

I guess I should take a look at the wolverine system.

thanks lou

[Steven Wilson]

I normally use a Tormek to sharpen my turning tools (I do have a Wolverine setup but prefer the Tormek). Anyhow, after grading the stone the edge is very fine. I will occasionaly hone the inside of a gouge with a 2000 grit slipstone. If I'm taking a very fine cut with a skew I will hone that on a 2000 grit Shapton stone that I use for sharpening plane irons.

[Renardo Subrosa]

Hi Lou,

I used to turn a lot and even contemplated doing it full time as a pro since I was a professional woodworker back then doing custom, high-end work for many years. I hone everything and don't consider it a bother. It doesn't take long and it makes the edge last longer, I feel. Also, be very careful to never use any sandpaper or sponge with grit and then use your edge tools on it after or you will immediately ruin the edge. One thing I do is to set aside my freshly honed tools and only use them for the last little bit. I try to use a shearing cut since honing and then scraping would just remove the edge you just put on it. With a shearing cut, I don't know if you do this, but the bevel rests on your work and you pull the handle slowly towards you until it starts to make a shearing cut. Look at the forces. Instead of the wood moving perpendicular to the edge or bluntly slamming into the edge, the wood travels toward the sheering cutting edge almost directly towards it and this has a tendency to make the edge last the longest. Did I explain that ok? I don't know if I'm making sense. Scraping the surface moves 90 degrees to the edge. Shearing moved directly into the edge. So, if you scrape, don't bother honing. If you use a shearing cut, then honing will give you a surface like glass without the wood pours being being compressed. So for me, I hone because it is easy and quick and gives me better results. I would also use a hard felt wheel if I had one. This can give a better, keenly polished edge than honing.
--
Cheers,
Reny

[Ken Salisbury]

I pretty much never hone turning tools...they get sharpend so frequently that it would just be an extra step that doesn't provide enough "extra" to warrant, at least for me. The edges I get right off the grinder work wonderfullly. (Wolverine system) I have used a water stone or diamond honing stick to touch up an edge on tools that get sporatic use to save time, however.

Here I go again !! having to agree with Jim. :D :)

[lou sansone]

thanks reny and others... I follow exactly what reny is saying and it is the best for me as far as bevel rubbing and shearing cuts. For jim and others that simply grind and go ... what type of stone are you using ? Maybe my stone is too course. Reny what type of stone and hone do you recommend ?


thanks for the help
lou

[Jim Becker]

Lou, I use a 100 grit stone most of the time. These are harder to find than the 120 grit, but I find that 120 is more heat and less grind than I prefer. When I'm turning something hard and/or abrasive, such as spalted material, I sharpen about every two minutes...I don't even turn off the grinder on those projects sometimes, although now that I have three Ellsworth gouges, I gang them up and go through all three between sharpenings.

[Andy London]

I have two different wheels that I use, a 120 white wheel from LV which is somewhat soft and a blue wheel 120 that Oneway sells. Most of our turnings tends to be in burls and spalted woods and I find the edge I can get quickly with grinding works great. I don't like the word grind as I think it implies really going at the tool however I do a very very light grind.

[Jim Becker]

II don't like the word grind as I think it implies really going at the tool however I do a very very light grind.
This is a very important point..."grind" tends to imply removing a lot of metal and that is not the case. A light touch on the wheel is all that is normally necessary unless you bugger the edge on something embedded in the wood or drop it point down on your concrete floor. Then, you fire up the 60 grit or coarser wheel and reshape the tool! Doh! I hate when that happens!!

[Bill Esposito]

I have to agree with most in that I dont hone my turning tools...except for my skew.

I had bad luck with the skew until I bought Alan Lacers video and his 5/8" skew. Now after just a little practice I can make a a tool handle without any catches or digs, and it will hardly need any sanding.

So now I hone the skews and just picked up the same diamond honing bar that Alan Lacer recommends and it works great and quick.

Waiting on the new 1642 before I try the skew on something other than handles :)

[Anthony Yakonick]

I will hone my skew, sometimes I will "touch up" a spindle gouge other than that it's straight from the wheel, 120 grit white I think.

[keith zimmerman]

As several others have stated, I also never hone my gouges. I do however hone my skew after using the grinder. I use a sharpening stone and diamond stick to sharpen the cutters for my hollowing tools.

keith