PDA

View Full Version : Need to tar your blacktop drive? Better act quick.



Dave Lehnert
08-11-2011, 11:18 PM
Was reading that states are starting to outlaw coal tar black top sealer. Guess Canada is nation wide with the ban. Said something today to the store where I purchased some and they confirmed it may happen.

What will take it place?

Bryan Morgan
08-11-2011, 11:36 PM
Yep, looks to be true. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42917004/ns/us_news-environment/t/state-bans-coal-tar-sealants-big-win-foes/#.TkSQqmvF-Uk http://www.paint.org/news/industry-news/item/402-new-legislation-to-ban-coal-tar-based-coatings/sealers-for-driveways-and-parking-lots.html

I will reserve comment as I have nothing positive to say.

Bruce Page
08-12-2011, 12:00 AM
It's a changing world we live in.
Remember folks, we don't do politics at the Creek.

Greg Peterson
08-12-2011, 12:10 AM
Lead paint was a brilliant idea at one time too.

John Coloccia
08-12-2011, 12:16 AM
Jackie Mason, a brilliant man, once said: "It's not a matter of being healthy anymore. It's about choosing an illness you like".

***crawling back into my radon infested cave while I still can***

Larry Edgerton
08-12-2011, 7:19 AM
Sure am glad I have a concrete drive........

I would be willing to bet there will be a alternative on the market before the last coal tar dries.

Larry

Gordon Harner
08-12-2011, 8:42 AM
Actually there are several alternatives to coal tar driveway sealers. An asphalt emulsion which is almost the same thing as the original binder used in the hot mix and a latex type. They both work well. The advantage to the coal tar is that petroleum products do not melt or soften it. But the problem with coal tar is that it is a proven carcinogen. You name the cancer and it will help cause it.

Brian Elfert
08-12-2011, 9:55 AM
I've never sealed my driveway and neither have my parents sealed their driveway. I've heard over the years that sealing a driveway with the stuff in a can has no benefits to the life of the driveway. About the only thing you are doing is making it look better by being blacker.

The only kind of sealer that is supposed to help are the companies that actually use machines to apply a hot sealer. The problem is companies charge $1000 and up for the service.

David Weaver
08-12-2011, 10:04 AM
I can't see anything good about the coal tar stuff other than that it makes pavement black.

Birth defects, lower IQ, cancer...steep price to make a drive look black to impress other people.

Bryan Morgan
08-12-2011, 12:23 PM
You name the cancer and it will help cause it.

EVERYTHING causes cancer these days. Whether thats true or not thats what we are told. I've just come to accept that living happy and free I will eventually wind up with it.

Dave Lehnert
08-12-2011, 3:28 PM
I have read the same thing about no benefit to sealing your drive. But I would have to disagree. It fills in the small hairline cracks. That has to keep freezing water out in the winter. No way around it.

Craig Matheny
08-12-2011, 10:44 PM
The only kind of sealer that is supposed to help are the companies that actually use machines to apply a hot sealer. The problem is companies charge $1000 and up for the service.
Most streets and highways here in California are sealed with a cold process emulsion last for about 1 year if that much.

Bill Cunningham
08-13-2011, 10:38 PM
EVERYTHING causes cancer these days. Whether thats true or not thats what we are told. I've just come to accept that living happy and free I will eventually wind up with it.

Actually George Carlin came up with what really causes cancer. Saliva!!
But, only if swallowed in small amounts over long periods of time..

Neal Clayton
08-14-2011, 8:43 PM
Lead paint was a brilliant idea at one time too.

lead paint is superior to any modern paint, it's still a good idea ;).

you can reproduce the mixtures (it was just pigment and linseed oil) but they wind up being awfully mold/mildew happy. the toxicity of the lead made it work.

the original lead paint on my soffits and exposed rafters is doing fine after ~103 years. no modern consumer-available paint lasts that long.

Myk Rian
08-14-2011, 8:53 PM
The only kind of sealer that is supposed to help are the companies that actually use machines to apply a hot sealer. The problem is companies charge $1000 and up for the service.
My drive is big enough to park 6 cars. Cost me $130 to do it last month.
The advantages of having it done is sealing the cracks to keep water out.

Greg Peterson
08-14-2011, 11:11 PM
lead paint is superior to any modern paint, it's still a good idea ;).

you can reproduce the mixtures (it was just pigment and linseed oil) but they wind up being awfully mold/mildew happy. the toxicity of the lead made it work.

the original lead paint on my soffits and exposed rafters is doing fine after ~103 years. no modern consumer-available paint lasts that long.

Still a good idea, sure. As long as you don't get any in your food or water supply. Don't get any air born from sanding. And don't let any toddlers children eat paint chips.

Chlordane was a great pesticide, except for the health side affects and toxicity to fish.

DDT and Agent Orange were effective too. AS was creosote does wonders for drinking water.

The larger point is that many things were very effective. They are likely more effective than their contemporary replacements. However, they also came with some side affects many consider undesirable.

Bryan Morgan
08-15-2011, 12:43 AM
The larger point is that many things were very effective. They are likely more effective than their contemporary replacements. However, they also came with some side affects many consider undesirable.

And as such we should be allowed the freedom to choose for ourselves whether or not to use it... :D

Andrew Pitonyak
08-15-2011, 2:32 PM
I ripped out my blacktop driveway and replaced it with Cement. Very pricy

Neal Clayton
08-17-2011, 5:19 PM
the funny thing is, these modern xylene borne paints that they use for industrial purposes are arguably worse than the lead paint. the lead was released over a period of decades into the surroundings of the coating in small quantities. xylene's damage is front loaded to whoever is applying it from the fumes.

David Gilbert
08-19-2011, 5:33 PM
There are two classes of chemicals and materials in this world, those that give you cancer and those that don't. The distinction is that those that don't give you cancer will kill you before you can get cancer. For example, hydrogen cyanide isn't carcinogenic since it kills you too quickly. For that matter, strychnine or gun shots won't give you cancer either. My recommendation is to expose yourself as little as possible to all foreign substances.

Cheers,
David

Bryan Morgan
08-20-2011, 1:20 AM
There are two classes of chemicals and materials in this world, those that give you cancer and those that don't. The distinction is that those that don't give you cancer will kill you before you can get cancer. For example, hydrogen cyanide isn't carcinogenic since it kills you too quickly. For that matter, strychnine or gun shots won't give you cancer either. My recommendation is to expose yourself as little as possible to all foreign substances.

Cheers,
David

I wonder how much of it is from the junk we put on blacktop vs the GMO and other weird junk in our synthetic foods.... Seems like banning useful things is just an excuse to cover up for the junk we are forced to eat.

Ole Anderson
08-20-2011, 6:54 PM
I have no problem discontinuing coal tar for use in driveway coating, there are plenty of other products that don't stink nearly as much. Frankly, the primary use of such coatings is to make it look black again, which by itself if useful. If you think you are significantly prolonging the life of your drive by painting it every 2 years, you are the victim of the industry. Look around, you will see plenty of driveways severly cracked which get coated frequently. If it was so good, why doesn't the DOT seal the streets every year or two? Crack sealing with a rubberized filler is another story. That is why you see it on the highways all the time, and on commercial parking lots.

I'm glad I don't live in California, from what I read in fine print on all of the products I buy, everything is KNOWN by the State of CA to cause cancer or birth defects.

Oh, and most chemicals won't give you cancer or kill you outright, kind of depends on how you define chemicals. Look and see how many chemicals are on the ingredient label of you next prepared food item.

matt tennessen
08-21-2011, 9:59 AM
And as such we should be allowed the freedom to choose for ourselves whether or not to use it... :DBut in your choosing to use it, in addition to taking on that health risk for yourself, you expose everyone else to the risks too. If yours and everyone else's drinking water is polluted because you want to tar your driveway that wouldn't be a responsible action. Ultimately that is how these decisions are supposed to be made, weighing the pros and cons for the overall greater good.

Greg Peterson
08-21-2011, 12:53 PM
I wonder how much of it is from the junk we put on blacktop vs the GMO and other weird junk in our synthetic foods.... Seems like banning useful things is just an excuse to cover up for the junk we are forced to eat.

No one is forced to eat GMO foods. Yet. The reality is that eventually we will have no choice in consuming GMO's. Not because of their advertised advantages but because of their benefit to the bottom line.

One's freedom to do what they want to do ends at the point where it impinges another's freedom. And many of these chemicals last long past any one person's claim to its use.

Mark Bolton
08-21-2011, 3:16 PM
And as such we should be allowed the freedom to choose for ourselves whether or not to use it... :D

Gave me a chuckle,

Sounds like a local old timer I know who thinks nothing of driving out to the perimeter of his farm (of course the perimeter) and boring a hole as deep as his farm tractor will reach with a post auger, and buries any combination of paint, old pesticides, waste oil, solvents, you name it. All with the resounding peace that it is his land, he pays the taxes, and he should be able to do anything on that property he chooses.

Of course when you ask him what happens when leachate from that hole makes it into the neighbors ground water, or better yet why waste the time lugging everything to the perimeter of your property? If its not an issue why not dig the hole right next to your water well? Thats right close to the barn and far more convenient? You are met with a highly scientific response of "bahhh, that'll never happen". Or better yet to see someone dumping waste oil in the ground with the chant "well, it came from the earth, back to the earth". While I consider this gentleman a friend he is one of the many who have told me "if I want to have a tire fire in my front yard I should be able to", or "why should the health department be able to tell me how I have to put a septic system in?", on and on. Meanwhile his children live in the next house down the creek (down stream that is).

This very concept is so utterly ignorant its completely unbelievable that in modern society it would even be uttered out loud but living in a rural area its pretty common.

Mark