Question about heat treatment of old chisles

[Mike Henderson]

I want a nice 3/8" wooden handled butt chisel but most places don't sell them - they sell a 1/4" and then a 1/2". My thought is to purchase an older socket chisel (a solid steel chisel, not a laminated chisel) that has been heavily used and is short. Then I'll make an appropriate short handle for it.

My question is whether the steel in older chisels was hardened all the way to the socket or whether it was only hardened towards the working end.

I do know that some people do make modern 3/8" butt chisels - I've found some on the web - but I want to see if I can use an old chisel.

Mike

[george wilson]

They are usually soft towards the socket end.

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks, George. I was hoping you'd see this post and answer.

Mike

[Jim Neeley]

Mike,

FWIW, you can get a variety of different 3/8" chisels from Bob Jeske (Blue Spruce Tool Works), including bevel edge bench, dovetail (paring) and long paring, as well as his 3/8" bevel edge butt chisels.

I've got his 3/16" and 1/2" dovetail pairing chisels, a fishtail, his ultra-thin marking knife and a 14oz mallet and all are really nicely made. The infused head on the figured maple mallet head is impressively dense and the African blackwood handle feels nice and cool in the hand.

YMMV.

Jim

[george wilson]

The Blue Spruce chisels look like they'll be hard all over.

[James Taglienti]

In the older chisels there is usually an evident line where it was hardened, even visible through rust.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike,

FWIW, you can get a variety of different 3/8" chisels from Bob Jeske (Blue Spruce Tool Works), including bevel edge bench, dovetail (paring) and long paring, as well as his 3/8" bevel edge butt chisels.

I've got his 3/16" and 1/2" dovetail pairing chisels, a fishtail, his ultra-thin marking knife and a 14oz mallet and all are really nicely made. The infused head on the figured maple mallet head is impressively dense and the African blackwood handle feels nice and cool in the hand.

YMMV.

Jim
Yes, I'm aware that there are modern makers of 3/8" butt chisels. I've found a number of them on the web, including Blue Spruce. My question was specifically about old chisels and whether they are hardened all the way up to the socket.

Mike

[george wilson]

On many,the chisels were heated at the tang end after hardening,and the colors were allowed to creep down to the cutting end until the right color is reached. That left the tang end softer.

Old Mr. Simms,the old English cabinet maker who was the entire furniture restoration dept. in Wmsbg. in the 70's,said he never liked his old English made chisels(all of which were 19th.C.,until at least 2" had been ground off. Meaning that the chisels were left TOO HARD to hold a good cutting edge at the cutting end. I have certainly found this to be true in knife blades I've made and modified till they worked better.

Antique laminated plane irons I used for many years were the best at holding edges when they could barely be filed A LITTLE by a new,smooth cut Nicholson file. I mean just BARELY scratched a little.

[David Keller NC]

Mike - You could soften the socket end of an antique if you take a few precautions to avoid drawing the temper in the blade. I've done this before by soaking a rag in water, wringing it out and wrapping the entire blade in it. Then I heated the socket end to a dull blue color with a propane torch, and then stood the chisel in wood ashes so that the ash just covered the socket. I then left it for a couple of hours to slowly cool - it worked quite well.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike - You could soften the socket end of an antique if you take a few precautions to avoid drawing the temper in the blade. I've done this before by soaking a rag in water, wringing it out and wrapping the entire blade in it. Then I heated the socket end to a dull blue color with a propane torch, and then stood the chisel in wood ashes so that the ash just covered the socket. I then left it for a couple of hours to slowly cool - it worked quite well.
I don't want to soften the chisel. I was thinking of using an old chisel that has been worn down as a butt chisel - and making a short handle for it. So I need the chisel to be hardened all the way up to the socket. I was afraid that most old chisels were only hardened towards the working end and the last part close to the socket would be soft - primarily because of the way the workers would handle chisel while doing the heating and quenching. George W. seems to have confirmed my fears that the chisel close to the socket would probably be somewhat soft.

Mike

[george wilson]

I remember many years ago drilling through the socket of an old Stanley chisel whose handle would not stay on,and putting a nail through the socket and handle to hold it on. Couldn't do that if it were hardened.

[Paul Incognito]

I have an old Stanley chisel that I carried in my nail bag for years. It got used and abused until it finally snapped in half. I ground a bevel on what was left anf honed it. That was a year or so ago, it holds an edge and I'm still using it.
I don't see what it would hurt to give it a shot.
Paul

[Mike Henderson]

I don't have an old, worn chisel. If the consensus was that the upper part was hardened, I'd buy a short (worn) one on eBay.

I have a bid in on one now so I'll let you know.

Mike

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Mike

This is a set of Witherbys I used as butt chisels (since sold). As yiu can see they are quite worn back. The blades are about 3 " long, where they were probably about 5 or 6" to start. They took and held an edge reasonably well (just not well enough using local hardwoods, so I sold them).


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Chisels/Witherby3.jpg


Regards from Perth


Derek