Router table setup - Kreg or Bench Dog?

[Brian W Evans]

I'm going to buy a new router table setup and I've narrowed it down to two systems:

Kreg - PRS3000 lift (http://www.amazon.com/Kreg-PRS3000-Precision-Router-Table/dp/B002YIG578/), PRS1040 table/fence/stand

204605 (http://www.amazon.com/Kreg-PRS1040-Precision-Router-System/dp/B00002240Q)204606



Bench Dog - 40-150 lift (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TDLSW6), 40-302 table/fence/stand

204607 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001UQ6HD2/)204608





These two systems are about $50 apart in price, so that is not an issue. In either case I will be using a PC 7518 motor which both lifts are designed for.


My indecision comes from the following:


1) Kreg's table is MDF with steel supports near the router plate. I can't see that MDF will last anywhere near as long or be as stable as Bench Dog's cast iron table. I'm also concerned about hanging 30 lbs of router/lift from MDF. I really don't want to buy another table in the future.



2) I like Kreg's fence better. I have their router table fence and it is rock solid. Bench Dog's fence looks a little skimpy.



3) I've heard good things about both lifts, but Woodpecker (same as Kreg?) owners seem to feel that there is nothing comparable to their lifts.

4) The newer Bench Dog lifts seem to have lost the ability to change bits above the table, which looks easy on the Kreg lift.


In short, I think I'd buy the Kreg setup but the MDF table is really causing me concern. Any thoughts or experiences that would make this decision easier? Anything I haven't thought of?

[Jim Foster]

I have an old bench dog lift and I can't remove the cutter via the top. I thought the new Bench Dog lifts made that possible. I think there are also offset collet wrenches available that help this. If you have not considered it, I'd consider a cast iron extension table for your table saw. There was a fellow on the forum that made them a few years back. You'll have standard size slots, and if you already have extensions on your saw, you won't take up any more room in your shop. I find myself moving my router table quite a bit and would like it to be less in the way. When buying the table and fence beware of finding yourself in a situation where you have to purchase proprietary clamps etc... Bench Dog was very good at designing a system that requires their proprietary pieces. The bench dog lift is pretty nice otherwise. (Not an A+ for the price, probably a B+) The Bench Dog table I bought was a covered MDF table that is heavy, expensive and sags in the middle. The fence is OK, but requires Bench Dog made accessories. It's not a bad system by any means, but if I was doing it again, I'd get an extension table for my table saw, make sure I could remove cutters from the top "Easily," and plan on customizing my table saw fence or making my own that is very easy to clamp to.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I believe the business Jim is referring to is now defunct.

[Gordon Eyre]

I have not seen either table but I can comment on an MDF top. I glued together two 3/4" MDF pieces for the top on my router table and have used it now for 8 years with nary a problem.

[Jim Foster]

I believe the business Jim is referring to is now defunct.

I think the business was called "Quality Grinding." Do you know if the fellow that made custom tablesaw extensions still does it on the side?

[David Thompson 27577]

Regarding cast iron extensions for the table saw, that are configured as router tables:

I bought one about a year ago. I got mine from MLCS, but there were others available -- IIRC, Rockler has one (probably the Bench Dog version, since Rockler bought Bench Dog).

As router table tops go, the iron ones are pricey, and that price does not include a lift. But the stability is amazing.

[Bill Trouard]

I have had the Kreg Router Table and Kreg Lift with PC 7818 for over 2 years in the Florida heat and humidity without an issue. I also added a Rockler Dust Bucket to handel dust collection and Woodpeckers 8-piece Router Plate Insert Ring Set.

I have had no issues with this setup at all.

[tyler mckenzie]

I own the bench dog, it's solid. I can change bits above the table (i forget the model number).

I couldn't recommend it more.

[John Brennaman]

I replaced the top on my radial arm saw with MDF because it was what I had available at the time. That was 4 years ago and the only issue is a little buckling on a corner where I spilled my coffee. :)

[Jerome Hanby]

Peachtree sells cast iron router table extensions for the table saw. When I was talking to them, their shipping was based on the dollar amount not the weight, so their top was very attractive. It was available with two different cutouts for the mounting plate, one large enough to handle the Digi-lift (what I was considering at the time).

[Harvey Pascoe]

I have the Kreg and I'm not real happy with it. Too many negatives to mention here but the most aggravating is the three set screw throat plate level adjusters that make it like a tripod. push on any one side of it and it pops up and very difficult to keep level. The screw threads are loose and they vibrate out of position. I went back to my homemade aluminum plate as being better than the Kreg.

[Jerome Hanby]

I don't have any first hand knowledge of the Kreg table, but the caster set they sell for it is top shelf! I've got a set on my table saw and on my planer and I'm jonesing for another set for my jointer.

[Brian W Evans]

Thanks for the input so far. I visited my local woodcraft and checked out the Kreg table. The surface is nice and the fit/finish seem very good. However, the steel supports are not attached to the table - they're just screwed to the mdf. This will probably reduce sagging in the table but it is not as good a system as I had thought. Also, the fence is not as nice as I had expected - it does not move smoothly and deflects quite a bit unless you lock it down with the knob at the end. So far, score one for the bench dog setup.

Thanks also for the suggestions that I add an extension to my table saw. This is a good idea but, without getting into details, it just wouldn't work for me. As an FYI, though, Bench Dog does make a cast iron TS extension. I'm sure I've seen others as well.

[Randy Briggs]

I posted in D&D a few weeks back - I picked up the Bench Dog iron top/fence and metal leg set for $300 shipped from Allprotools.com. Haven't had a chance to assemble but there are deals out there.

[Bill Trouard]

Thanks for the input so far. I visited my local woodcraft and checked out the Kreg table. The surface is nice and the fit/finish seem very good. However, the steel supports are not attached to the table - they're just screwed to the mdf. This will probably reduce sagging in the table but it is not as good a system as I had thought. Also, the fence is not as nice as I had expected - it does not move smoothly and deflects quite a bit unless you lock it down with the knob at the end. So far, score one for the bench dog setup.

Thanks also for the suggestions that I add an extension to my table saw. This is a good idea but, without getting into details, it just wouldn't work for me. As an FYI, though, Bench Dog does make a cast iron TS extension. I'm sure I've seen others as well.

Sounds like that fence was not adjusted at all. the fence has many nylon adjustments to tame down that movement

[zayd alle]

Brian,

I have the original Bench Dog Lift. I went for the Bench Dog because of the beefy construction (cast iron body, steel plate, steel inserts -- although I think these are plastic now, and a huge acme screw). I've been very pleased with it -- easy to adjust, easy to change bits from above the table, and it's just nice to have an all-steel/cast iron setup.

For the table, I converted an old shaper into my router table by having the top machined to fit my lift. The cost wasn't bad and I 1) ended up with a solid steel/cast iron router table and base, 2)kept an old shaper out of the dump.

For the fence, I wasn't entirely pleased with any single fence available from a manufacturer, so I made one from 80/20 aluminum extrusions and brackets. It's unbelievably solid, cost less than any decent fence setup off-the-shelf, and is basically a kit that goes together quickly. And of course, you can design it the way you want it.

[Bill Huber]

Did you look at the Jesem tables and lifts, I have them and I think they are great. The fence is just outstanding and I don't really see how it could get any better. The lift is built like a battleshop and you have above the table bit changes. The table is 3/4" Phenolic and is very stable, mine is still flat as it can be after 4 years of use.

http://www.jessemdirect.com/category_s/6.htm

[Ray DuBose]

I have the Woodpeckers version of that table and lift but I ordered it with a Phonic Table from Carbide Processors who run a better deal than from ordering it from woodpeckers it comes with the SuperFence from woodpeckers though and not the kreg Fence. But it's about the same price as your package your looking at and you had a Phonic table instead of a MDF..

[Michael Roland]

I purchased a Bench Dog Pro Max setup with a lift and a PC7518 for a really good price in 2008 when Amazon was running those crazy tool sales. I love mine

[Ruperto Mendiones]

When friends mdf tables started warping within 1 year of construction, I made up my mind: I went with the bench dog cast iron table & lift and have NO regrets. I made a fence from a 3 ft x 12" scrap of mdf that fastens to the table slots. I have no problems using standard open-end wrenches to mount router bits from the top. But the Woodcraft offset wrench might make grasping the bottom flats a bit easier. Recently I completed a set of raised-panel doors. Using the cast iron table was pure pleasure.

BTW four benchdog lifts have survived >>3 years of use & abuse by ~ 600 students at Cerritos College.

Wishing you decades of happy routing...

Ruperto

[Brian W Evans]

Thanks for all the input. After reading the posts, a few pm's, and talking to customer service people, I have made a final decision (now to convince the wife...;)). It is:


Bench Dog cast iron router table - you can't beat CI for durability and strength.
Woodpeckers ProLift V2 - same as the Kreg, but available in the right size to fit the Bench Dog top. I couldn't pass up the quick-rise feature and its reputation.
Woodpeckers Super Fence - like the Kreg, it is a big hunk of aluminum with lots of t-slots. It seems rock solid and easy to adjust. Also, it will fit the Bench Dog top.
Finally, the PC 7518 motor.
I decided to build a base for it myself and will post pictures of the entire setup when it's done. Given my tendency to get sidetracked, look for the pictures sometime in 2014.:D

Thanks again. I'd have been lost without the 'Creek.

[Larry Rasmussen]

I chose the Bench Dog lift because I could get it with the steel router plate and then got a cast iron table extension to be added to my saw. Although I didn't have any problems with my laminated MDF free standing router table and lift with the aluminum plate I have found the various magnetic tool holders and jigs to be really useful. That was the main reason I changed set ups when I went to the router on table saw extension. Something to consider. Luck with the project.
Larry R
Seattle

[Carl Beckett]

Can change bits above the table. The lift is solid. My top is two sheets of Mdf with several layers of shellac. Not a problem at all. I do believe how the top is supported underneath is important, my table has supports so the Mdf doesn't have to Span a large distanceAm surprised at how well the shellac has held up, I have the same on my out feed on he table saw

[Andrew Kertesz]

You can always make your own. Check out Pat Warner's website.

[Ralph Butts]

Brian is the quick rise feature the only reason you went with the Woodpecker lift? I have decided to sell my bench dog CI ts extension for the larger dedicated CI router table from bench dog. I will be headed to my local Rockler tomorrow. I am undecided on the lift however. I have read nothing but good things about the BD, however it does not have the quick rise feature of the Woodpecker. Anyone have experience to point out any notable missing or "better" features one may have over the other? Thanks

[Carl Beckett]

One feature of the benchdog is the inserts around the router bit come out with two flathead machine screws, with a small allen wrench.

This is a little bit tedious, and you have to be careful to tighten them evenly or get rocking of the insert. Also, I have always worried that although the screws are hardened, the threaded hole they go into is stainless, and threaded stainless steel is prone to galling and I worry I will bugger up the thread someday. Then there is a plastic insert within this insert for zero clearance, but again held in by small machine screws that arent the easiest for swapping out.

I have wondered if a model with a different insert system wouldnt be more convenient (like the bayonet type). I end up taking this piece in/out a lot to accommodate different diameter cutters.

Then the other item is the 'nut' that the speed wrench goes on for lowering raising, is recessed. Of course this fills up with dust so you have to blow this out to get the wrench on nicely. Not a big deal.

But for me these are minor inconveniences - the lift is very solid and holds position well. Im just giving a couple considerations, because all of the top lifts are super designs and it comes down to small details.

[Brian W Evans]

Ralph,

The lift decision was something I agonized over. In the end, as Carl said, it comes down to small details. I chose the Woodpeckers for two reasons: reputation and the quick lift.

The Bench Dog lift was very tempting but they have been bought by Rockler. I don't have anything against Rockler - they're aiming at a specific market - but their products are not always the sturdiest or most well-made. To me this represents uncertainty about future parts/support and, with the lack of the quick rise feature, was enough to push me over to the Woodpeckers side. Definitely not compelling reasons, but enough for me.

I got my Woodpeckers lift yesterday and I haven't installed it yet. However, it is an impressive piece of equipment - heavy, smooth-operating, and with nice fit-and-finish. I don't think I'll regret my decision.

[michael gates]

I have the Kreg table and it has seen a lot of use. The problem I have had, was with the insert rings, they are plastic and garbage. The threads are plastic where the thread into the router plate, as careful as I was with them the didn't last long.

[Ralph Butts]

Larry, Brian and Carl thank you all for your comments. I agree that it will be the details that sway my choice one way or the other. I really don't think I can go wrong with either choice. I imagine it will be a case of a couple of annoyances or things I wish were designed a little different. I was a little concerned about the insert screws myself. Galling and a general PITA with the inserts were my two biggest concerns. I had not considered the recessed nut for the lift mechanism wrench. This caused me to think a little harder. I just cut sheet stock for the carcass of my router table cabinet. It is one of Norm's NYWS designs. That being said the lift locking mechanism will be enclosed behind a door since it is a set screw on the lift rod. The WP is locked above the table with a small allen key (I hate having these small parts to lose). Well I have decided to hit up Rockler first since it is first on my drive down the freeway and I am dead set on the CI table. I will take a hard look at the BD lift and then head further south to my local Woodcraft to kick the tires on the WP. I am leaning in the WP direction for the reason I mentioned above but this will be a last minute decision. Thanks again to everyone. Now I need to go list my BD CI TS extension and lift on CL.

[Brian W Evans]

Ralph,

I'm not sure, but I think the stainless steel Carl is talking about is from an earlier version of the BD lift. I believe the current version uses plastic inserts. Of course, as Michael said, the WP lift also has plastic inserts and they do seem a little flimsy. Extra sets are cheap, but I would have preferred aluminum inserts.

One other thing about the BD table/WP lift combination - for some reason the WP lift is not drilled to match the mounting holes on the BD table. The BD table comes with set screws, so leveling the lift is not a problem but you can't mechanically attach the WP lift to the BD table. The lift and router combined weigh about 28 lbs so I'm not really worried about it but I wish WP would have gone the extra mile and drilled the holes to match the BD table, especially since this lift is designed to fit the BD table.

[Ralph Butts]

Well I picked up the BD CI table (full size) from Rockler. I decided to go with the WO PRL V2 lift. I did not see Brian's final post until late last night and I cannot believe I did not notice the lack of a way to attach the WP lift to the BD table. I have a PC7518 so I would imagine I have the same 28 lbs of combined weight resting in the cutout of the CI table. That being said I don't like the fact that the WP does not have screw holes to mount the lift. The lift plate is sized to fit the different dimensions of the BD table so for the life of me I don't know why the mouning holes were left out. I have not even opened the box yet I am so disgusted that I did not notice this in the store. Is this something that can be retrofit with a good drill press and countersink? To make matters worse both of my local Rockers sold out of their stock of the BD pro lift yesterday. Is my worrying about the lack of hold down mounting screws much ado about nothing?

[Steven Wayne]

I have my lift "just sitting" in the Bench Dog cast iron table extension. I have used it quite a bit this week. I have not had any problems or reason to think it needs to screw down into the table. In the manual that came with the table it does not make mention of bolting the lift in place. The router plate included in the box also doesn't appear to bolt down. I think you are fine.

[Jim Stewart]

I have a benchdog with a woodpeckers lift. I would call woodpeckers and ask them. I know they make a lift for various size table holes.

I have a buddy that has a cast iron table that was a benchdog. I think that rockler bought benchdog so you would have to buy it there.

woodpecker lifts are nice!

[Ralph Butts]

Steven thank you for the response. I spoke to WP this morning and they informed me that they have never made the lift with bolt down holes and that they have never had a problem. I imagine that my setup will be just fine. For whatever reason it just did not seem right to me. As soon as I get my carcass together for the cabinet I will post pics. Thanks all for the help. Happy routing.