A gloat that sucks more than it should

[Mike Cruz]

Hmmmm. Where to start, where to start. A little while ago, I asked ya'll about shipping and packing companies in a state other than your own: how to find them, which ones would you go with, which ones would you avoid. I was vague about what I has having shipped for a couple of reasons, but the bottom line is that it was a ClearVue Cyclone Dust Collector. It had never been assembled, bought in 2007, 15" impeller, the 5 hp model. After speaking to the kind folks at ClearVue, it is the exact same as the 1800 they sell now.

After tips on using PakMail to package and ship it, I called them, got a quote, and agreed to have them ship it. All went fairly smoothly. The cyclone arrived here yesterday. I signed the papers. I took a couple picks of the palleted mass. 204562204561 The driver drove away. I started unpacking. 204564204563204565 OOPS! (You can see the broken pieces down in the bottom.) Straight to the phone. Called the delivery guy on his cell (he had called for directions...lucky me). He backed back down my driveway. Noted the damage. Called it in. Pointed out the number for me to call (the delivery company's number). I called them. Before making a claim, it was decided that I ought to contact PakMail since they are the ones that I contracted with. I did. They asked for pics and proof of replacement cost of the cyclone body. I sent pics and a link to ClearVue's site (actually to the page showing the part and the price). I have been assured that I will either be getting a replacement part or a check. I am confident that this won't be a hassle. Everyone has been very compassonate, understanding, and reassuring.

So, the gloat would have been REALLY big had I lived in the neighborhood, as the sale price was $700. Packaging, shipping, and insurance however were an additional $360. Still a great deal...IF I wanted to vent directly outside. Yup, it didn't include filters. So, $300 later for the two filters, my end cost was $1,360. New from ClearVue would have been $1,600 on sale. So, I saved about $250. Deal, but not the deal of the century...and a little headache to boot. But, if all works out, I have to say that I'm happy. I'll have a much stronger DC and a lot cleaner shop. :)

[Mark Ashmeade]

That should suck!

[Phil Thien]

Eventual suckage almost assured.

[Peter Elliott]

at least is wasn't your boat! ;)

[Mike Cruz]

Mark and Phil, yeah, that's the problem...the "eventual" suckage...

Peter, touche... Mine, however, wasn't an act of God. It was an act of man. One in particular that probably decided to stack something on top of my pallet. Then again, God doesn't offer "claims" on damage he does. Man does. :)

[David Nelson1]

Still a good deal Mike. Beats try to tape 2 together! BTW I had a feeling this was the deal. :D

[Jerome Hanby]

If you get to keep the damaged one, is it "fixable" with epoxy? Might make a good starter for someone else...

[Tony De Masi]

Quit belly aching and just get it fixed.

[Paul Wunder]

I am constantly amazed how we woodworkers "thrive" on a deal. Sure it is the money to be saved, but I suspect that the creative, must build from scratch, we can do anything side of us grabs hold and leads us down these paths. I plead guilty also.

Best of luck with your new ClearVue

[Mike Cruz]

Jerome, I've been wondering the same thing about whether it is "fixable". I just don't know. But you are right, if it is, it would be a good starting point for a home made cyclone.

Tony, what? You don't have an extra one in your shed sitting around? Just give to me and stop belly aching about me belly aching...

Now that you and Peter have rolled your eyes and shaken your heads at me, can't wait for Dan to chime in...

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, Paul. I actually went the route of figuring out what the parts would cost me if I "made my own cyclone". That is what lead me down the road of finding a used one. In this case, it is 4 years old, but never put together. So, technically, not used. But, yes, I hope to enjoy it for some time to come. As soon as I can get this part replaced and put it together...

[Dan Hintz]

Come on, you big baby... a little bit of CA glue and you'll be fine.

Soon you'll have 5HP of you suckage to play with...

[Matt Meiser]

Come on, you big baby... a lot of CA glue and you'll be fine.

Soon you'll have 5HP of you suckage to play with...

Fixed it for you Dan

[Dan Hintz]

'tis a flesh wound...

[Paul Wunder]

The irony of it all is that when I purchased my cyclone, ClearVue shipped it via UPS with some bubble, some foam and a cardboard surround. Despite other experiences with UPS, everything arrived unscathed. Maybe I should call this an Anti-Rant

I hope you get this straightened out quickly, Mike

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, Paul...as do I. ;) I've notified the fine folks at that particular PakMail to please inform me of each "thing", "step", or "happening"...whether I really want to hear it or not. I'd rather actually hear bad news than not hear anything at all...then have to hunt them down to find it out. So far, they've been great.

[Jeff Bartley]

That's unfortunate that it was damaged Mike, but boy, when everything gets straightened out you're gonna love that clearvue! I've had mine running for almost a year now and it's just incredible. I know many threads have driven this point home but there's no comparison to experiencing it in your own shop!
And get ready to build an insulating box, they sound like a jet engine when unmuffled!
Jeff

[Mike Cruz]

Funny that you should mention an insulation box. I am not mounting this to a wall. It will be kinda in the middle of the room. So, I'm going to have to build a wall to mount it. I was thinking of building three walls for stability, and one more just to surround it. Then filling in the spaces in between the studs with insulation...for the noise. But I imagine I have to be careful to make sure there is enough airflow to keep the motor from overheating. You wouldn't know any of the links to what others have done, would you?

[Karl Card]

If you lived in the southern United States I bet Duck Tape would fix it... but it only works down south...lol

[Mike Cruz]

Believe me, Karl, I've thought about it! IF for some reason I HAD to, I've been thinking about how I would "fix" it. My hypothetical plan would be to super glue as much of the cracks and as much of the pieces back together. Then wrap the whole area in either duct tape or some sort of wrap. Then spread epoxy on the inside. The trick would be to get the epoxy smooth. Then remove the outside wrapping, and spread epoxy all over the outside...then smoothing that. I might still need to put some sort of perminant wrap, like duct tape or clear packaging tape around the outside to make sure that if a crack developed, it wouldn't leak...or blow apart. You could always put enough duct tape around the outside to keep it together, but it would be unsightly. My biggest concern would be that the inside would be smooth. I can only imagine that a rough surface inside would make the cyclone less efficient somehow...

[Stephen Cherry]

When are the vfd and three phase motor coming in?

[Dan Hintz]

My biggest concern would be that the inside would be smooth. I can only imagine that a rough surface inside would make the cyclone less efficient somehow...
The drop in efficiency would be so small as to not be worth worrying about. If epoxy is what you need to make make it work, do your best to prevent a lot of squeeze-out (same tape tricks as with wood) and move on with your life. The rivets and welds in steel versions would be about the same size as any glue bead squeezing out.

[Paul Wunder]

Mike,

If you are mounting the ClearVue in a garage with no living space above it, have you considered a simple mount using the joists? Then the surrounding walls can simply be for sound insulation. On the ClearVue website Ed Morgano has a useful video of a closet with rockwool batts and 2X4 framing and a simple baffle. Looking at his before and after decibel readings his approach seems very effective. Because of height restrictions in my basement I used the space between the joists and simply hung the motor plate from the joists. Ed had sent me a diagram on how to do this. Let me know if this will help. I can look for it and post it for you

[Dan Hintz]

Thinking on Paul's comments... since you have extended ceilings in your shop, you may have to make those walls extend to more than just the joists. Otherwise, the noise will just bounce off of the ceiling and right back into the shop.

[Mike Cruz]

No, Steve, you see, I bought this with a single phase motor...I didn't buy it with a 3 phase. But you are welcome to come and wire yet another machine for me if you'd like. :)

Dan, the ONLY reason I am considering fixing this one is if for some reason I don't get reimbursed because somewhere along the line, someone isn't holding up their part of the bargain. I am due (and I have been told I will get it) a new cyclone body. I insured the unit. I came damaged. Getting on with my life involves a big box delivery. I will not settle for an epoxied cyclone body at my expense. The value of the unit (for resale purposes) would plummit.

Paul, that sounds like a great idea. I'd love to look into that.

[Mike Goetzke]

In '09 I had a similar deal but it was local. There was a guy that fell on hard times and lost his job. He was selling a CV1800 for about 1/2 price. I arranged to pick it up, went and looked at it, and everything was in the OEM packaging and looked good as new. After I got home and took the motor out of the sealed box I noticed some damage to the end bell housing. I tried to repair it but the motor made too much noise so I called the previous owner Ed at ClearVue. He was so nice. The cyclone was bought 14 month ago so there was no warranty but Ed was able to find me a new bell end. He not only didn't charge me for it but also refused to take anything for the shipping. I was kicking myself for a while because the guy I bought it from was not willing to take it back. Like everyone says - you will not believe the difference. I would highly suggest that you purchase some type of bin sensor if you plan to use filters (don't ask me why but I did it twice).

Mike

[Mike Cruz]

Yes, I'm using filters. What sensor did you get? Do you have an extra one?

[keith jensen]

I'm not sure what polymer the cyclone is made out of but I found that repairing cracks in plastic can be difficult. I had a PVC heat exchanger that required extensive repairs and found a product called Plastaid. The stuff was amazing. I wound up recasting the entire bottom of the heat exchanger with it.

[Mike Cruz]

Keith, that seems like an awsome product. Could you sand it when it hardened?

[Jim O'Dell]

You're going to love the cyclone. And Mike's story of what Ed did for him doesn't surprise me one bit. Ed and his son Matt were incredible people to work with. I'm glad Ed is still with us here on the Creek. I have a little list of things I used to put my 1800 together. Let me know if you want me to PM it to you. Mine is of about the same vintage, I think I get it in May of 06.
I'd recommend not mounting it to walls at all. Any vibration from the unit will transfer to the walls. Walls become a big speaker to amplify the vibration. I built a "tree" that my cyclone mounts too. I keep it isolated from the floor with some of the dense black Styrofoam that the cyclone was packed with. It is inside a closet, but doesn't touch the walls. One of these days, I'm going to build a set of doors for the closet!!:rolleyes: Jim.

[Mike Goetzke]

Yes, I'm using filters. What sensor did you get? Do you have an extra one?

Learn from my mistake. I first bought a Bindicator brand that sensed the density of the chips/dust. It worked fine when I first calibrated it but then I switched to spiral heads on my jointer & planer - this changed the density and I overfilled. I recalibrated but the changed hardwoods and that fooled it enough to fill the filters again. I then purchased a sensor from a guy at the ClearVue site that makes one that uses a garage door sensor. I placed mine across the clear hose between the cyclone and bin lid. I've filled the bin four times so far and it's been flawless. Plus it completely fills the bin reducing down time. Sometimes the Bindicator would trigger when 1/2 full.

This is the sensor - note the Bindicator is still applied (have since bought a plug for the hole):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/IMG_2042.jpg

The electronics are in this black box. It has a high powered strobe that goes off when filled. You can also buy an optional audible alarm too. If desired you can wire this to the cyclone power relay to turn off the cyclone when the bin is filled but I chose not to:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/mbg/IMG_2045.jpg

Mike

[Mike Cruz]

Mike, that seems like a nice unit. I am interested, but can't find it on ClearVue's site. Got a link?

[Mike Cruz]

I'm all ears, Jim. Whatever info/help you can give me, I'd love it. I don't mind doing something that is a PITA once. I HATE redoing things. So, mounting this to find out that it vibrates through my entire shop and then having to remount it is NOT what I'm looking forward to. Pics and any info you have are well apprecitated.

Anyone else that has pics of theirs mounted are welcome, too!

[Mike Goetzke]

Mike, that seems like a nice unit. I am interested, but can't find it on ClearVue's site. Got a link?

See your PM.

[Mark Engel]

Hey Mike. Would you mind sending that PM my way as well?

Having to clean out those filters is not a task I am looking forward too.

[Mike Goetzke]

Hey Mike. Would you mind sending that PM my way as well?

Having to clean out those filters is not a task I am looking forward too.

What the heck:

Robert R. Payne
McRabbet Woodworks70 Hounds Chase Drive
Hendersonville, NC
28791rrpayne@bellsouth.net (28791rrpayne@bellsouth.net)

[keith jensen]

Keith, that seems like an awsome product. Could you sand it when it hardened?

I never had to sand it but I don't see why not. I think they showed a lot of videos on their site where they molded various parts. It would basically be like sanding/grinding a pair of dentures (I watched my dad do it a few times!).

Make sure you use it in a well ventilated area, methyl methacrylate is very potent.

[Mike Cruz]

Thanks, Keith. Let's hope I don't have to do it. But if I HAVE to, at least it looks like I MIGHT have an option...

[Mike Cruz]

Hey, Mark, let's see if we can get a bulk discount! :)

[Mark Engel]

Oh! I know Mr. Payne. We are both members at NCWW. I think I may have had a conversation with him about his sensor design.

Thanks Mike.

[Mike Cruz]

Well, for everyone that asked me to post updates, here you go:

I was getting UBER nervous about whether or not I would get reimbursed for the broken cyclone body. So, I spent hours epoxying the parts back together. Before doing that, I drilled holes at the ends of the cracks to keep them from continuing. Once dry, I used Plastaid (a combination of a liquid and powder that when cured dries to basically a PVC) to fill the holes and gaps and anywhere I thought it would need it. Seemed to work okay. By the end of August, I thought I might be getting shafted, so I began to install the cyclone. Yeah, my shop was stagnant for about a month. Anyway, the cyclone is all installed, and Pakmail finally came through a couple of weeks ago and send me a check for cost of replacing the cyclone body. For now, I'm putting that money aside. Not sure that my "fix" will hold up in the long run, and I don't want to have to uninstall and replace the cyclone body if I don't HAVE to.

So, bottom line, the cyclone is running and Pakmail sent me a check...albeit about 5-6 weeks later.

[Dan Hintz]

Mike,

If you have any doubts about the solidity of the cyclone, overlay some extra glass fiber and resin... nothing says the entire piece has to be clear.

[Chris Parks]

The irony of it all is that when I purchased my cyclone, ClearVue shipped it via UPS with some bubble, some foam and a cardboard surround. Despite other experiences with UPS, everything arrived unscathed. Maybe I should call this an Anti-Rant

I hope you get this straightened out quickly, Mike

Things are bit different these days as the body is packed in a very well designed box to avoid damage.

[Mike Cruz]

Chris, I didn't buy mine from Clearvue. I bought it from a guy who was bought it, but never put it together. So, I had to hire a packaging/shipping company. I'm quite certain that Clearvue does a ship shape job of packaging the cyclone.

[Alan Schaffter]

ClearVue cyclones are made from PETG - PETG is a copolymer of Polyethylene terephthalate (sometimes written poly(ethylene terephthalate)), commonly abbreviated PET, PETE, or the obsolete PETP or PET-P. It is a thermoplastic polymer resin of the polyester family and is used in synthetic fibers; beverage, food and other liquid containers; thermoforming applications; and engineering resins often in combination with glass fiber. PETG is a clear amorphous thermoplastic that can be injection molded or sheet extruded. It can be colored during processing. More than you wanted to know, huh?

PETG like acrylics and polycarbonates can not be bonded satisfactorily with traditional glues, epoxy, etc. They are usually "solvent welded" using one of many low viscosity, clear solvents designed for this purpose. Bonding is usually only done where the parts can be joined without a gap. There are two ways to bond with solvent- the edges of panels are dipped for a minute or so in a shallow pan containing the solvent to soften the edges. They are removed, joined together, and held immobile until the PETG is fully hardened again. The other method of bonding that can be used with any shape, again as long as the pieces fit snugly to each other, is capillary injection- you position the pieces together as perfectly as possible then apply the solvent directly to the joint. A hypodermic needle works well for this. Capillary action draws the solvent it into the joint where it softens the PETG, allows it to bond, and then harden. "Weld-On" by IPS a major manufacturer of solvent welding adhesives, is usually available at plastics suppliers (http://www.curbellplastics.com/adhesives-sealants/solvent-based-adhesives.html). Weld-On 3 or 4 looks like the ticket.

[Mike Cruz]

Hmmmm, thanks for the info, Alan. Oddly enough, epoxy did a really good job. Maybe the pieces just aren't under that much stress. If it fails for some reason, I'll look into Weld-On...or taking the reimbursment money I got to get a new cyclone body.

[Tony De Masi]

Do what Dan says or just replace it with a REAL system from Oneida.

[Mike Cruz]

That was wrong in so many ways...