Marking on M-16 / AR-15

[Terry Swift]

A perspective customer is looking to engrave and hopefully color (gold) the engraving on the receiver area where the magazine goes into the rifle for his sons graduation from Marine Boot Camp. It's a coated aluminum and probably once the coating (whatever it is) is lasered off - then the metal underneath would probably corrode; hence his wanting to color it gold. While I could laser it with a laser tape coating and then lightly spray with 24K gold paint - I'm not sure if that is really a practical solution. Would diamond drag engraving, then filling be a better option?

Thus my question and seeking some great advice from everyone.

[James McMulllian]

I am an AR15 manufacturer. The coating on the lower receiver is Type III anodizing. The laser does an very nice job of marking it by bleaching the anodizing. After marking you will still have your protective layer. Unless you have a Yag or Fiber laser you will not be able to color fill since you won't actually remove any material.

PS. Be very careful you will find lots of places on the Internet that will tell you that engraving a customer's receiver is fine "as long as the customer waits for it and you do not keep it over night". However, the BATFE is pretty clear on this if you take money for engraving the receiver you are supposed to have a FFL. You can engrave any other part of the firearm no problem just do not accept the serial numbered part (on the ar15 it is the lower receiver, which is where the mag-well is).

[Mike Null]

Diamond drag engraving cannot be filled. I'll wait for someone to dispute that but it is so shallow that I can't imagine anything sticking. Usually oxidizing will work but not in this instance as oxidizing turns the aluminum black.

[Chris DeGerolamo]

What James said.

There is no need to worry about corrosion.

You definitely cannot keep it over night without an FFL. I do believe, though, that as long as an agent of the FFL (i.e. owner) is in-house, engraving legality is okay. James - correct me if I am wrong.

We had been doing engraving on AR's for a bit, and have even had ATF come check us out...they asked if that client had always been here while we engraved receivers and of course the answer was 'yes'.

We do now have our FFL so there are no worries.

[Mark Conde]

I have done several AR 15 and M16 receivers. They laser very well. I would not even think about color filling with anything. A CO2 laser will produce a nice sharp image that your son will be thrilled with.

[Gary and Jessica Houghton]

PS. Be very careful you will find lots of places on the Internet that will tell you that engraving a customer's receiver is fine "as long as the customer waits for it and you do not keep it over night". However, the BATFE is pretty clear on this if you take money for engraving the receiver you are supposed to have a FFL. You can engrave any other part of the firearm no problem just do not accept the serial numbered part (on the ar15 it is the lower receiver, which is where the mag-well is).

Can you point to where the ATF states this? I looked on their website and saw about marking and their rules and regulations but I did not locate anything that claims you must have an FFL.

[Terry Swift]

Thanks Everyone. I'll let the customer know; but not allowing it to stay overnight seems a bit odd - but that's our Government for you. I'll look up the FFL and all as well.

Will the lasered part be like a shiny aluminum versus the gun metal gray that it currently is. I'd like the customer to know what to expect if he proceeds with it?

[James McMulllian]

Can you point to where the ATF states this? I looked on their website and saw about marking and their rules and regulations but I did not locate anything that claims you must have an FFL.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html#license-activities

(http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html#license-activities)Q: Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms?
Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.[27 CFR 478.11]

Some people will try to read that "well I'm not in the business of engraving firearms, I'm just doing this one". Most local inspectors (mine included) read that as if you are in business and you engrave a firearm you need an FFL. Really no different than taking a gun to a machine shop, if they don't have an FFL they are not supposed to modify registered parts. They can thread barrels and make other parts but modifying a receiver is not allowed.

[James McMulllian]

Will the lasered part be like a shiny aluminum versus the gun metal gray that it currently is. I'd like the customer to know what to expect if he proceeds with it?

It turns a very nice white. I use 35% power 100% Speed, 400 DPI on my Epilog 50w start low power and second pass if it's not white enough for you. Here is an example, I cropped the picture to remove the gentleman's name and dates of service.

[Terry Swift]

Now that looks sweet.

Great work.

[Bill Cunningham]

In Canada, a AR is considered a 'restricted' firearm, which means it can ONLY be fired at a registered range, and you can't use it for hunting. Hopefully, with the changes upcoming in our stupid firearms laws, this will in time, be changed. For me to engrave a AR receiver, (or any restricted firearm)the owner has to get a special permit (ATT) to bring it to my shop, and stay with it while it's marked. Because of so many stupid restrictions I usually tell the customer I would love to do it, but they will have to go fight it out with the police firearms officer first. No one has brought one in yet.. A semiauto .223 AR-15 with a mag pinned to 5 rounds is considered a scary firearm by the previous government, but a 30-06 semiauto pinned to 5 rounds and has a 'wooden' stock, is perfectly safe and gives no liberal the dry heaves.. Go Figgure!

[Mark Conde]

interesting discussion-- what U.S. agency or government body issues the license? Is that a state or federal law?

[ray hampton]

interesting discussion-- what U.S. agency or government body issues the license? Is that a state or federal law?

BATF ,Bureau Alcoholi tobacco firearms

[ray hampton]

In Canada, a AR is considered a 'restricted' firearm, which means it can ONLY be fired at a registered range, and you can't use it for hunting. Hopefully, with the changes upcoming in our stupid firearms laws, this will in time, be changed. For me to engrave a AR receiver, (or any restricted firearm)the owner has to get a special permit (ATT) to bring it to my shop, and stay with it while it's marked. Because of so many stupid restrictions I usually tell the customer I would love to do it, but they will have to go fight it out with the police firearms officer first. No one has brought one in yet.. A semiauto .223 AR-15 with a mag pinned to 5 rounds is considered a scary firearm by the previous government, but a 30-06 semiauto pinned to 5 rounds and has a 'wooden' stock, is perfectly safe and gives no liberal the dry heaves.. Go Figgure!
223 versus 30-06/ is this because a 223 can be conceal

[James McMulllian]

interesting discussion-- what U.S. agency or government body issues the license? Is that a state or federal law?

Ray gave you the agency (minus the E, they also regulate explosives, BATFE). They are a federal agency. Another thing most people don't realize is just how many industries are excise taxed at a federal level. I pay a 11% excise tax on every firearm I build, which means if you live somewhere with sales tax you could be paying close to 20% tax on every firearm you buy. They also get about the same on fishing reels, poles, outboard motors, etc.. The newest addition, July first they start taxing tanning beds.


The license is cheap. A FFL01 (Regular dealer or Gunsmith) is $200 for the first three years, and $90 for every three year period after that.

[James McMulllian]

223 versus 30-06/ is this because a 223 can be conceal

There is nothing more concealable about the 223 vs 30-06. Firearms laws are rarely based on fact. AR's just look scarier to the uninformed populace. The 30-06 is more lethal at every range, which I'm pretty sure was where Bill found the irony there.

[ray hampton]

There is nothing more concealable about the 223 vs 30-06. Firearms laws are rarely based on fact. AR's just look scarier to the uninformed populace. The 30-06 is more lethal at every range, which I'm pretty sure was where Bill found the irony there.

where do you find this UNINFORMED POPULACE ?
the firearms laws are wrote for one reason only , to line someone very deep pockets with MONEY

[Mike Null]

This thread is deteriorating into a political rant which is not in keeping with SMC terms and conditons.

I am closing the thread.