SawStop: PCS 1.75 vs Contractor?

[Reagen Ward]

I'm going to buy a SawStop, probably this week, and I need help deciding between the PCS 1 3/4hp and the Contractor models. Can any of you who have purchased one or the other weigh in? I'd greatly appreciate your input.

It's an upgrade from a 1980s Delta contractor that I've just sold. It'll be a major stretch financially, and I'm having trouble deciding between the high price of the contractor and the even higher price of the PCS 1 3/4hp. I want/need the big 52" deck, T-Glide fence (my Vega went with the Delta), cast iron inserts, etc, so the price difference is about $600-$700. That's much could buy a jointer and planer on craigslist, and I don't have either of those yet.

If I get the contractor, I'd eventually build it into a nice cabinet like you sometimes see on here and LJ. If I get the PCS, I'll have to pony up another $200 for the mobile stand - my shop is my garage. My primary focus is cabinets and built-ins, not fine furniture.

Here are my thoughts:

Contractor is a lot cheaper.
Contractor can be mounted in a nice shop-built cabinet, making it taller for a tall guy like me.
PCS can be upgraded to 3hp if ever needed for about $500 and a lot of effort, but it's doable (I called to confirm).
Contractor cannot be aligned as easily as the PCS.

Thank you for your input!

PS: This thread is to discuss the relative merits of two SawStop models. If you wish to discuss whether or not Steve Gass is a capitalist or socialist or both at the same time, please do it somewhere else. If you make this thread into the same pro/con argument junk I see elsewhere, I will find out where you live and subscribe you to the Hammacher Schlemmer catalog. I will walk my dogs in front of your house and always forget a bag. I will call you at 2AM just to talk about my day. You've been warned.

[Michael Weber]

I'm too frightened to say anything.:rolleyes:

[Prashun Patel]

If you can at all swing it, I'd just upgrade yr elec to 220 and get the PCS. You'll not have to upgrade in the future. The Contractor and Hybrid are good options (IMHO) only if you are permanently space or power constrained, respectively. Pay the price now, and save yrself cabinet-saw-lust forever.

FWIW, there are also some great 'budget' cabinet saws that'll give you lots of after market $$ to spend on souped up guards and safety devices. I know you did not ask for this, but I WILL say this minor criticism of my PCS: it discourages me from using a dado stack because you have to swap the blade cartridge to use the stack.

[Reagen Ward]

If you can at all swing it, I'd just upgrade yr elec to 220 and get the PCS. You'll not have to upgrade in the future. The Contractor and Hybrid are good options (IMHO) only if you are permanently space or power constrained, respectively. Pay the price now, and save yrself cabinet-saw-lust forever.

You mean a 3hp PCS? I love that idea, and have 220 capabilities, it's just a matter of money. The 1 3/4hp PCS is already borderline insanity for me. But your point is well taken, and I agree.


I know you did not ask for this, but I WILL say this minor criticism of my PCS: it discourages me from using a dado stack because you have to swap the blade cartridge to use the stack.

That's an interesting point about the dado brake - my levels of laziness are the subject of academic study, so it is quite possible that I'll be similarly discouraged.

[Prashun Patel]

Sorry, yes, I meant the 3hp PCS. I only push this point because I went from a contractor to hybrid saw thinking it'd be the best of all worlds. My Jet Proshop DID work just fine. But if you run thicker/harder wood, then it's nice to have the power of a 2+hp saw. Also, note that the 1.75 saw does not have the blade guard with the dust port as does the 3hp PCS.

[Jerome Hanby]

If you have the cash to spend, get the best saw. If you are like most of us, you will be using it multiple times on every project and it will be money well spent.

[Joseph Tarantino]

a different take here. unlike many woodworkers, when i think of equipment, i look at what i want to do functionally and then get the least expensive most reliable piece of equipmet that will execute that function. my more intensive woodworking began about 8 years ago and i still have my ridgid 2412 10" contractor saw with its 1.5 hp 110v motor. it has yet to encounter something it can't handle. likewise with my second TS, which is a 10" emerson electric built 1 hp c-man contractor saw which easily handles whatever i throw at it. both these saws perform well because they are aligned properly and i use the correct sharp blade.

IMHO, if the SS contractor saw will provide you with the functionality you need, you can also get 2 additional pieces of equipment. as for long term, you can always add a bigger fence or create a base with additional tablespace so a contractor saw acts like a larger cabinet type saw. let what you want to do drive your decision. all to often, the knee jerk reaction to a "what kind of TS should i get" question is "get a 5 hp, 220v or 3 phase unisaw with a commercial 52" bies fence" when all the operator wants to do is make jewelry boxes.

[Neil Brooks]

I think Joseph's take and Jerome's take can both be equally right.

Are you just starting out, and looking to make jewelry boxes, but have this inkling that you may want to start making cabinets, in the semi-near future ?

Buy more saw than you think you need. Buy once, cry once.

Are you pretty sure that things LIKE jewelry boxes, pen holders, bird houses, and cutting boards are ALL you'll ever build ?

You can get by nicely with a 1.75hp saw, and -- like Joseph said -- increase its utility, later, by other means.

Is cash a real issue, but .... you'd like a saw you can grow into ? The used market offers some screaming deals on cabinet saws.

For a couple years, I've been very happy with my Bosch 4100 contractor ("jobsite") saw, but ... it was either time to build a base/cabinet for it -- to stabilize it AND give me additional support for larger pieces -- or buy up.

And ... watching the WW shows, and the lightning-fast feed rates that THEY use, on THEIR saws, with stuff like 8/4 butternut and hard maple ... told me it was time to buy up.

So ... yeah ... cash and objectives ... to me ... kind of rule, and are very personal decisions.

If you HAVE the cash AND the room .... who ever regrets buying too much tool ??? :)

[Matt Kestenbaum]

As a matter of disclosure, I am a VERY happy owner of the 3hp PCS. Most of the post's have been predicated on how you feel down the road--either when you become dissatisfied with the either the saw's capacity for denser/thicker stock, or need the greater precision/tighter tolerances to support your projects. Trying to guard against the re-purchase has been a focus.

For the sake of argument though I would offer another way of working out the choice...that of residual value. Which of the saws in your decision set is most likely to hold its value best over the longest horizon? For resale! I would suggest that the contractor model is the most likely to have the better resale value in a few years. Awareness of the technology is growing faster that ever and the word the saws quality is also getting attention father away from the woodworking world, which will create a broader market. If you read the stats about Sawstop's change to the market place (love'em or hate'em the issue has drawn out a lot of interesting data about tool sales, marketing and purchasing trends), the smaller the format of the saw the larger the number of units sold in the market. Besides, that it will be easier for a new owner to pick up and move to their shop. On the (future) used market, a hybrid saw buyer will be faced with same compelling dilemma that we are discussing here now.

I assume you might never need to make an upgrade (taking your work style and project needs at your word!), and so the Contractor saw might serve you best and cost you less. A win! If not, you are likely to recoup more of your money selling the contractor saw and applying towards a new saw. (Only THEN, will I join the chorus of voices encouraging you to go 3hp PCS)

Good luck with the decision!

[Jerome Hanby]

To bring up a completely non functional point, how many times have you spent too much money on a tool but still get a big grin every time you walk into the shop and see it? Flip-side, how many times do you see a tool you settled on to save a few dollars and grit your teeth? Personally, I wouldn't buy either model, I like old iron. But, I'd say buy whatever is going to make you happy whenever you walk into the shop. I bet both saws are top notch and if you can score an 8" jointer for the difference in price, the the lower priced model will look even better sitting beside the jointer.

[Reagen Ward]

Wow, such great input. Thanks to all! Now I have even more considerations to take into account, but that makes for a more educated decision, right?

BTW, this kind of response was exactly what I was hoping for and needed - a great welcome to the forum.

[John Coloccia]

FWIW, I spent a lot of money upgrading my SS Contractor. The PCS was not available at the time. If it was, I would have no doubt just simply bought the 1.75 or 3hp PCS.

[Reagen Ward]

What kind of upgrades did you get? Now I'm curious.

[John Coloccia]

What kind of upgrades did you get? Now I'm curious.

Cast iron wings, 36" fence (I guess that's not technically an "upgrade" as the cheap one is available on the PCS as well I think), tool free throat plate, dust collection blade guard. Maybe something else...I forget.

The 3.0HP comes with the upgraded blade guard. The 1.75 does not, though I would add it. When you look at the price difference between what my saw actually cost and what PCS costs, the PCS starts looking a lot more reasonable.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I have a 3HP PCS. Love the saw. Easily my favorite and most-used machine in my shop. That said, I hear loud and clear that you have budget constraints. I think it's important for you to listen to that. By some of the logic here, everybody would be buying Mercedes instead of Hondas. Most of us can't afford to buy stuff with that mentality 100% of the time.

My understanding is that the only difference between the 1.75 HP and 3HP PCS is the motor. The 1.75HP unit is a cabinet saw, not a hybrid saw. I had a 1.5 HP Jet contractor saw before I traded up to the sawstop. I only ran into trouble when I was trying to rip 8/4 hardwood. The motor would bog down and I'd get burning. But I never did try a thin-line rip blade. I was always using a combination blade. I suspect most of that problem would've been alleviated if I tried a thin kerf rip blade.

But you specifically said that you do mostly cabinet cases and built ins. Which means you'll be using 3/4" plywood and 1" thick face frame stock. No question in my mind that a 1.5 or 1.75 HP motor could handle that. With a good fence on the contractor saw and the dust collection upgrades (the blade guard is excellent), as well as a good, heavy duty rolling cabinet, I don't think you'd notice an appreciable difference between the contractor saw and the 1.75 HP cabinet saw.

I recommend the contractor saw for the work you do and the budget you have.

[mreza Salav]

dust collection is always better on a cabinet vs a contractor version. I had a contractor saw before and no matter what I did there was always a mess (even with above blade guard).
If you are not in a hurry keep an eye on used market, sometimes you can get bigger SS for less money, I got my ICS-SS which was almost new for less than the price of a PCS.

[James Aibel]

I am a very satisfied owner of the 1.75HP PCS. For me, one of the key factors in choosing it over the contractor's saw was its smaller footprint and the availability of the industrial mobile base (four 360 degree casters), which makes it a dream to move around in a small basement shop. The saw sits against a wall, but with a few pumps on the jack pedal its up, out and turned 90 degrees for use. I don't know if this base is compatible with the contractor's saw, but if it is I would give it consideration if moving the saw regularly is necessary. And yes, the whole set-up with T-Glide fence is very expensive, but so too is the cabinet saw dressed out. I do not need a 3HP motor for my work and like the ability to run the saw out of a 110 volt outlet. For my purposes, the smaller cabinet saw is more than adequate with the right blades installed. It is a really nice, high quality piece of equipment. Another view from the fan club.

[Kevin Stricker]

If you are doing mostly cabinets you will be pushing around some big pieces of plywood and will want a big outfeed. Tablesaws take up a lot of space so having cabinet space under the extension wing makes a lot of sense. While it is easy to build all of these things around a stationary cabinet saw it becomes more of a chore to make the whole assembly mobile. It's much easier to build a cabinet base and set a contractors saw on it.

On the other hand, I have never been a big believer in over-accessorizing. All of the things you add to your contractors saw will have questionable value if/when you go to sell it. Most likely you will just include them free to get rid of them. Putting a big 52" fence on a contractors saw may be of value to some, but most people looking for that level of saw will not want to pay the premium for it. Point being that while you may be able to pimp your ride and get it to do what you want you will probably not recoup any of that cost. If you spend the same time/money on a cabinet saw you will have a bigger market for resale as those upgrades are more common for cabinet saws.

[Steve Colvin]

Same here on the footprint - that's why I chose the 1.75 over the contractor version. No regrets.

[Rich Engelhardt]

It's an upgrade from a 1980s Delta contractor that I've just sold. It'll be a major stretch financially, and I'm having trouble deciding between the high price of the contractor and the even higher price of the PCS 1 3/4hp. I want/need the big 52" deck, T-Glide fence (my Vega went with the Delta), cast iron inserts, etc, so the price difference is about $600-$700. That's much could buy a jointer and planer on craigslist, and I don't have either of those yet.

I'm going to toss something at you that's not SS related - per say.
Going from one contractor saw to another contractor saw is only an "upgrade" in a small way.
A lot of the shortcomings of the Delta will still be there w/the SS.
I'm thinking about sheet goods here - to be specific.

I found myself is a similar situation about three years ago. I had as my only table saw, a Hitachi Job Site ($199.00 from Lowes). Cutting sheet goods of any decent size on that saw was - and adventure to say the least.
I had the opportunity to "upgrade" to a Ridgid TS3660, new, for a sweet price. I had a rehad job that I needed a couple thousand dollars worth of materials for - charged it all on a HD credit card over about a year's time to get points, then traded in the points for gift cards. I got the TS3660 on sale for $100.00 off and w/the gift cards, I ended up paying about $260.00 or so for the saw.

Now - the crux of the whole thing.
I also mulled over/weighed the options available for the year I was piling up credit card rewards.
I considered cabinet saws, sliding saws ( for a few seconds anyhow), sliding attachements, hybrid saws and contractor saws.
I also looked into track saws.
I came to the conclusion, that for my needs/uses, the Ridgid TS 3660 and a Festool TS55EQ would be the best way to go.

I'm into the pair for about $1200.00 - all told. About what a new Griz 690 cabinet saw runs - give or take.

The main benifits I've gotten:
- Small footprint. The 3660 on the Herculift rolls out of the way. W/the track saw, I don't need a large outfeed or infeed for full sheets.
- I can use a stacked dado blade - however - I have to compromise on the diameter and the available width. I can't go a full 3/4" width & I'm not real sure it's wise to spin an 8" blade on the 3660.
- Nice heavy cast iron table on the 3660.
- Decent stock fence. Not great, but, decent.
- The Festool is a pure and simple sheet goods machine. It's capable of making exact & perfect cuts. No need to allow any extra for later trimming. W/quality hardwood ply running $100 to $180 a sheet, waste becomes a factor in a hurry. Those 1/4" to 1/2" allowances figure up to a lot over the years.

- (I'm glad someone else brought up resale/residual) Festool holds it's value. I really doubt, if the need would ever arise, that I could have recouped as much from a used Griz & the in/out feed, that I could (again, if the need ever comes up) from the Festool. I know from watching the "for sale" stuff, Festool also sells extremely fast.
I learned a long time ago that whenever I bought a new vehicle, if I viewed the purchase from the standpoint of buying a "future trade in" instead of the "new car smell", I saved a bundle. I just extend that any more to wondering "how quick will this piece of junk I'm buying sell, and how bad a beating will I take" whenever I buy anything :D.


Oh and BTW, feel free to call @ 2:00am your time. I'm usually up @ 3:30 Eastern evey morning ;).
LOL!

[Will Overton]

I waited for the 1.75PCS to be released for 2 reasons. I don't have 220v in the garage and the contractor saw would not fit, at least not conveniently. My saw sits between my two garage doors. One bay is the infeed side and the other is the outtfeed. The outfeed side is also where I park my car at night. The motor hanging off the back would have prevented that.

If I was buying again I would still get the 1.75 PCS. I wouldn't bother with the 36" fence, but would buy a Biesmeyer like I had on my 22124. While the SS fence provides more adjustments, the faces are not perfectly flat without some shimming. I was used to taking boards directly from the saw to glue-up without a stop at the jointer. It took quite a bit of hit and miss before I got the SS 'close' to what the Biesmeyer gave me.

That doesn't mean nobody got a flat fence, but from reports on other forums it's been hit or miss.

As mentioned below, this is not a hybrid saw. It is a solid cabinet saw with a smaller motor. The motor size has never been a problem for me.

[Shawn Pixley]

Like John, I have the SS Contractors saw because the PCS was not yet available. Additionally, I have upgraded the wings, have a foldable outfeed table, improved the dust collection, and have storage below. i work in a garage whe the cars have priority so it gets moved a lot. It works well and I have no complaints. That said, if I were to do it now, I would get the PCS.

[Reagen Ward]

I'm leaning strongly toward the PCS now, despite the increase in expense. The jointer and planer will have to wait, I guess. Seeing as how I plan to order tomorrow, I guess I should sleep on it.

Thanks to all for the input!

[Peter Aeschliman]

Definitely spring for the dust collecting blade guard! It's a really nice accessory.

[David Ewing]

I have the 3hp ICS. Very very happy!At the time that was the only model out.

I went with a big saw for the heft and because I subscribe to the buy it once axiom. I find the saw to be excellent....u know the nickel test....mine balances a penny!


I am sure u will be happy with either model. Have you really verified that 220v is not in the picture. On start my saw only draws 20a- 15 running. I run a 30a fuse and with that load I can run 10 gauge wire.


Good luck with your decision...it is exciting to open a new toy!

[Reagen Ward]

I'm going to order the PCS 1 3/4. Thanks for all the feedback, folks - hugely helpful. The decision maker: I went to a meeting of the local woodworking club tonight (my first), and the presenter was a local furniture builder that does some truly beautiful work. I went from 'Eh, why would I ever want to make furniture?' to 'Wow, something to aspire to' in the span of 2 hours.

I also tend toward the 'cry once' purchasing philosophy, but sometimes there simply isn't the scratch at the time it's needed. 220 is no problem, it's just paying for the extra horsepower right now. I'll get the PCS 1 3/4, and if I ever need to upgrade to 3hp, I'll have that capability for around the price difference between the 1 3/4 and the 3hp.

BTW, for my first thread started on this forum, I gotta say - you folks are awesome. I've donated as a result, and I plan to stick around.

[Rob Wong]

Like John, I have the SS Contractors saw because the PCS was not yet available. Additionally, I have upgraded the wings, have a foldable outfeed table, improved the dust collection, and have storage below. i work in a garage whe the cars have priority so it gets moved a lot. It works well and I have no complaints. That said, if I were to do it now, I would get the PCS.

Just like Shawn, I have the contractor with cast iron wings in my garage with car priority before the PCS became available. So being able to move it around was important. I love this saw but some sometimes wish it had more power. That's the only thing I would change.

Rob

[Cliff Polubinsky]

I'll get the PCS 1 3/4, and if I ever need to upgrade to 3hp, I'll have that capability for around the price difference between the 1 3/4 and the 3hp.

Reagen,

I checked with Sawstop before buying my PCS 1.75 about upgrading to the 3HP motor later and the person I talked to said it wasn't possible. I may have to check about that again. In my case I decided on the 1.75 because it was going to be a while before I could consider having 240v (probably moving in the near future).

And in my humble opinion (as if any of my opinions could ever be humble) you made a good choice with the PCS over the contractors. Smaller footprint over the contractor and with the built in mobile base it's really easy to move around.

Cliff

[Joseph Tarantino]

good luck with the new saw, reagen. i hope you'll be as satisfied with it as have the many SS owners who have posted on this and other forums. and if and when you "bump" up against the power limits of your saw, hopefully you'll remember to do what i did....change to the appropriate blade :). when a 50T combo blade wouldn;t make a 45* bevel rip to raise a door panel, i switched to a 28T cheapo carbide c-man ripping blade. that was the end of that problem.