black locust bowl -- need finishing advice

[Jon Nuckles]

This black locust bowl has been sitting in the rough out pile for several months and I finally got around to finish turning it:

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It is 5" high by 8" in diameter, with a wall a little less than 3/16".

I had planned to dye it black and then apply liming wax, as the grain seemed pretty open and I thought it might look nice with the rounded shape. After way too much sanding :(, I am having second thoughts. There is some torn grain that I just could not get out no matter how hard I tried. You can see it in the third picture just to the left of center. I am afraid this will be highlighted by the liming wax. What do you think? Please don't suggest more sanding, as I already have twice as much time sanding as I do turning in this piece. I even used my card scraper on the slowly turning bowl before starting at 80 grit on the torn areas.

The locust was hard when it was wet and it is like a rock now that it is dry. If the wax is not an option, I may dye it anyway and just apply WOP and take the gloss down as necessary to make the tear out less noticeable. Anyone have any experience as to whether dye tends to hide or exaggerate torn grain? A final option would be to fume it, as shown in Dave Schweitzer's recent post. I don't know that I like this one enough to go to all that effort, though.

All comments and critiques appreciated, including as to the form.

[David DeCristoforo]

If you are going to dye it, (especially if you dye it black, why not fill the areas that you cannot sand out? I know this is not really considered "acceptable" but then, neither is torn grain! The filled areas may still be noticeable but they might just blend in.

[Chris Burgess]

Reminds me of some Elm I turned recently. If it were me I would add a coat of Shellac, Wet Sand it back, Shellac, Wet Sand, Shellac........until that tear out is filled and not noticable. I am not sure how the Shellac would affect the dying but if you are planning in dying and sanding and dying then I would think that tear out will suck it up and make it much darker. I am no expert, just what I would try.

Edit... Ohh yea great looking bowl.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

I don't know that fuming the bowl is all that much effort. I really liked the results Dave Schweitzer got on his black locust bowl. As for not liking yours, I personally think the shape is worth some work. That bowl begs to be picked up.
faust

[Dennis Ford]

The bowl looks good now but I have doubts about the dye on this one. Either Chris's suggestion of Shellac or lacquer based sanding sealer might be a better choice. You did a good job with the form on this one, now you have a design opportunity with the finish.

[David E Keller]

I think the grain is too pretty to dye, so I'd probably wet sand the whole thing using BLO with a little extra effort on the troublesome areas. You could wet sand with water if you're planning to dye it.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have to agree and would use shellac or BLO to wet sand. Especially working on the torn area's. I would skip the dye with that grain pattern. Really a nice looking bowl.

[John Keeton]

I think I would go with BLO, and then shellac as Chris described. I have had good luck with wiping on shellac in order to fill the grain. From looking at yours, I think it would fill. Ultimately, you could then sand it back to a low sheen for a nice look, or use satin WOP.

Another option (please don't laugh!) is spray paint - flat black. With a finish over it, one can actually get a very nice look. I do think a black finish would accentuate the tear out, so you might have to consider rubbing in some wood filler and lightly sanding it off.

[Mark Levitski]

Torch it black, John, then sand it back. The open grain will burn such that the sanding will highlight the differences in harder to softer wood. I have also seen some very nice pieces sandblasted for this effect.


If it doesn't work for you, you can blame me and then torch it further in the woodstove :).

[Jon Nuckles]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.

I did consider trying to fill the torn out areas with grain filler or something similar, but I don't think I could do it well enough to avoid obscuring the grain lines there, which would also show up when it is finished, especially if I used the liming wax (and the grain lines are one of the things I do like about this piece). Maybe the fill with shellac would be an option. Both those choices would probably eliminate dying as an option, but that doesn't seem to be a popular choice anyway. To be honest, the voting here at home is also inconclusive (1 for and 1 "do whatever makes you happy").:rolleyes:

The wet sanding route with a clear finish seems to be the favorite choice and I may go that way, though I REALLY don't want to sand this bowl anymore.

John K, believe it or not, I suggested to my wife that I might spray paint it black; she laughed at me, but I might still do it. I figure I can hold that out as a last resort. My wife's suggestion was to follow my original plan to dye and use liming wax, then put it on a high shelf with the tear out facing the wall! An elegant solution in its own way.


Faust, you may be right that the fuming process is not as much work as I think. I haven't done it before, I've just seen Norm Abram and David Marks do it on TV, and I've read an article or two. Dave's pieces looked really nice that way. I don't know if it would help the tear out issue, but it probably wouldn't hurt it.

Mark, the sandblasting is an excellent idea and would give the look i want, but I don't have access to the tools and wouldn't have the space to put the enclosure if I bought them. I do like your idea of burning and then sanding or wirebrushing to accentuate the grain lines. The remaining tear out is all in the softer part of the grain, so that would be perfect if it works. I tried it with some mulberry on a bench I made several years ago and it worked just well enough that I am willing to give it another shot.

I'll probably decide when I go to the shop tomorrow, unless something else distracts me. Whatever I do, I will post the final result even if it is a pile of ashes.

[Michelle Rich]

I think that if you do not get that torn grain off you will regret it every time you use this pretty bowl. I know you are tired of sanding, but put it aside and leave it alone for awhile. then go back & make it perfect. The shellac will work if it's not too deep, but it won't fill nasty tearout. I think that the bowl is worth the effort. the shape is very appealing and the grain flows nicely around the piece. I hope you will take the time to finish it well, and then enjoy it with your family.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

You know, I spent most of my life manufacturing women's clothing. We had a great expression in that industry. Do a mediocre sewing job and a great press and the garment will look perfect. Do a perfect sewing job and a mediocre press and the garment will look like s... Michelle is right, you've done 90% of the work. If you are tired of sanding, put the bowl away for as long as it takes then bring it back out when you feel like doing a good job of "pressing". The bowl will last forever with or without the tearout. You will like it and you a lot better without.
faust