Official gloat.. Rockwell 12 - 14 table saw

[Karl Card]

Here a few weeks ago I posted that I got a delta/rockwell 12 - 14 inch table saw.

Well made the trip to go get it and needless to say the saw looked much better in real life than in the pics when I bought it.

$152.50 and I spent 140 in gas got me this saw, original fence, original miter gauge, 1 blade that is shot but 3 came with it that are nearly new, and to my surprise it has a 7.5 hp motor.... the need for speed in me keeps looking for a vfd that can support 7.5 hp but yeah they are expensive. I am very happy right now needless to say. The saw overall looks good, it came out of a school and I am anxious to find out more about the saw. I read that delta/rockwell saws were made in wisconsin and tennessee, well this one was made in pittsburgh, PA. One tag on it says "Rockwell Manufacturing" which is right for the place it was made but the other badge on the front says delta/rockwell. Any input appreciated. I have signed up over at owwm to see if I can find out more. The table appears to have rust all over it from the pic but it is just a lighting problem I guess because the table is pretty descent, I mean it looks better than the tables of my newer stuff.


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[Chip Lindley]

Karl, let me be the first to say You stole that one buddy! That's one big TS! Looks to be quite complete with motor cover and dust door! Being out of a school shop, I'm betting it is barely broken in yet! That one is gonna Clean Up Good! 7.5Hp may be overkill is some shops, but if you take the plunge for an 10Hp RPC, you will never regret it! Enjoy your BIG TS!

~~Chip~~

[Ryan Hellmer]

That's a great saw. I don't think you'll regret the investment. I second the vote for an RPC, then the next time you find a 3 phase steal, you'll be good to got. I particularly like the cute little hand truck strapped to the side of that monster.

Ryan

[Bruce Page]

Wow! That's a beast!
Congrats

[Aaron Berk]

Karl,

One of these just showed up in my local Habitat For Humanity Re-store.
It's a 3ph beast and looks a little bit worse than yours.
It has no motor cover, and the base cabinet has been CHOPPED for a huge DC hookup.

The previous !Idiots! cut a rectangle in the cabinet that extends ALL the way to the floor, totally wrecking the integrity of the base.


I'm trying to get the Re-store manager to cut me a deal and let me have it for 75-100 bucks. It's surface rusted like crazy, and in MUCH need of love.

Sad thing is the manager thinks it's worth a grand :mad: and he isn't listening to reason.

[johnny means]

Nice beast you got there. Have you considered a regrind on the top? At that price I would be willing to put a few dollars into a serious resoration.

[Bob Aquino]

They are nice saws, I have one, an earlier version with the cast aluminum motor cover. Good luck on a VFD for 7 hp. They stop being reasonable after 3 hp. For a motor that large you are looking at either a rotary phase converter or a static converter. Or you can swap out the motor for a single phase, they use a standard flat base mount rather than the unique one on unisaws. If you go that route, be mindful of the diameters of the shafts, the pulleys on that saw are not a standard spacing, so you really want to keep the original one and re-use it.

The table will clean up pretty well. I use a very strong boat bottom cleaner outside since it is a mixture of phosphoric and oxalic acid which dissolves the rust away in minutes. Just be careful and use long gloves and goggles. Or you can go with electrolysis, or the old razor blade method too. Did you get a miter gauge with it? They use a 1 inch t-style that are hard to come by. The arbor on these saws in interchangeable, griz sells compatible ones since they cloned this design a few years ago. You can go to a 1" or 5/8ths if you like.

Here are a couple of pix you may find interesting:

Size difference between a Uni and the 12/14
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-y1-UqoRg_gc/STnVLTFiVCI/AAAAAAAAEt0/TqMwsYGlgMI/s800/P1030480.JPG

A wing sitting on a uni:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-iehwfYV_yYc/STnVKmM-w-I/AAAAAAAAEtk/nBdpezI5gac/s800/P1030482.JPG


The elusive miter guage:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-H6LYfc0gQfs/STnVKbydSGI/AAAAAAAAEtc/S9h3o0VLX38/s800/P1030483.JPG

Mine finished with a router table extension added on:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-IeZv9CQD93c/SXy7_oGrr6I/AAAAAAAAGPM/fcXPeN_vSoo/s800/P1030736.JPG

[David Kumm]

The OWWM guys can probably date your saw. My guess would be late 70s. The 12-14 and PM 72 are a huge step up compared to the ten inch saws, the next step being the cast iron Oliver, Tanny, Northfield type saws. Some don't like that the blade sits farther back from the front of the table. I'm used to it so I prefer it. You can find a used 10-15 hp vfd on ebay for approx $400 if you are patient but will have to bypass your starter so the RPC is a better solution. The OWWM guys have info on home made ones. I you have a 10hp motor, the other parts are fairly cheap. Dave

[Brian Stratton]

My new 12-14...

[glenn bradley]

BEAST . . . .BEAST . . . :eek:

[Matt Day]

My new 12-14...

Brian, you bumped a 6 year old thread. And did you mean to post pics of your 12/14?

[Chris Hachet]

I just picked up a Delta Unisaw last Saturday, I really like older machines for working wood. Congrats on the old Delta, glad you saved it from death or recycling!

[Bob Elliott]

Let me start out by saying

That is a beautiful machine. I have a 12" Bridgewood and after having it I would never go back to a 10" saw. The biggest hurdle will be getting a VFD but for what you paid for the saw you should have some cash left in the budget. Set it up, get it adjusted and enjoy! I would trade my Bridgewood for American iron in a New York minute.

[Charles Lent]

WOW, that's a great find.

We have one of those at work. After sometimes using it for an afternoon, I come home to my Unisaw and it looks like a toy, but I love my Unisaw. It's a good thing, because I don't have room for a 12" saw upgrade.

Did you get a fence and miter gauge with it? The right ones will be hard to find if you didn't. The miter slots are bigger in this saw's table than a Unisaw table. Just consider this saw to be a Unisaw on Steroids. They are just as accurate, but much bigger than a Unisaw.

A rotary phase converter can be built quite cheap, if you can find a 10 hp or larger 3 phase motor that will work on 208-240 volt 3 phase power. A small single phase motor, pulleys and a belt to connect the two motor shafts together so the little motor can get the big motor spinning at about the big motor's rated speed, contactors to start both motors separately, and a time delay to shut off the little motor once the big one is up to speed, and you will have the makings of a RPC. Here, I can buy 3 phase motors for the scrap value from the local scrap yard. They usually have a bin full to pick from. Pick a clean one that doesn't smell funny, and it's quite likely still good and a 10 hp will likely cost less than $20. Smaller single phase motors are more in demand, so a litle harder to find, but Craigslist is a good source. You will need a big circuit breaker and main power connection. Expect that this home built RPC will draw about 1.8 times the 3 phase current rating when it's running and the saw is running, and 4-6 times that briefly when starting up. Lots of information and plans are available on OWWM.com or other internet sources.

Unless you live near a commercial zone or there is 3 phase power running down your street, it's not likely that you will succeed in getting 3 phase power run into your house or back yard shop. Some power companies refuse to run it to a private dwelling, even if it's available on the street in front of the house. In almost all cases, a RPC or other means will be necessary to use it.

If you clean it up but can't use it yourself because of the 3 phase problem, you could sell it for a good profit to a local cabinet shop or maybe trade them for their Unisaw plus cash for it. Many cabinet shops are looking for these saws.

Charley

[Martin Wasner]

Six and a half year old thread....

[Rich Riddle]

Enjoy the restoration and you certainly stole that saw. This must be the week of huge saws in the Creek. You new owners need to venture to OWWM. Lots of familiar and friendly faces there.

[Frank Pratt]

Ancient history here folks.

[Brian Scheffler]

might hqve done it by accident. I was looking at getting a '59 for a steal. idiot error

[Brian Backner]

If you feel comfortable working with 240v single phase current, building your own rotary phase convertor is not difficult though it can get a little pricey if you're not good at sourcing parts. A quick search of the Internet will produce a gazillion sites and posts about them. A well designed and generally well thought of version is the Fitch-Williams RPC. (I tried to upload the PDF detailing its design and construction for a 10HP RPC, but at 2.2 MB it was too large).

For those that can envision using their RPC to power future/additional 3Phase machines, I have attached a PDF on building a 3 phase distribution panel that could be expanded to handle any number of outlets/machines. Understanding how this thing works can take some effort but I built an expanded version and have been very happy with it.

As always, proceed at your own risk and contact a qualified electrician if needed.

[Matt Day]

Guys - 3 of us have posted this so far - this is a SIX YEAR OLD THREAD.

[John Gulick]

Just got lucky myself, scored a Delta Rockwell 12 - 14 from a local school and she looks and runs great. It will need a going over, lube, general check out but for $550. we paid the bill and ran for the hills.

We have her connected to our 10 hp rotary 3 phase converter and she is a BEAST

[mark kosse]

357669I've posted this a few times but here is a 12/14 wing next to a uni wing. Good find and welcome to the club.

[Doug McKay]

Welcome to the 12/14 club! Proud owner of one of those "Pallet eaters" as I call them.

[Bill Dufour]

Old thread, but if you need more horsepower for a rotary converter you can always add a big three phase disk sander or a three phase dust collector into the mix.
Bill

[Doug McKay]

Guys - 3 of us have posted this so far - this is a SIX YEAR OLD THREAD.

Yep, bunch of us OLD farts get together and talk about our OLD saws, and OLd times... Whats your problem young fella, seems ya got some thin skin....?????????

[John Gulick]

Six years and going strong. I guess you can't keep a good TS down. I prefer our Rockwell over our PM 74A

[Dave Cav]

I missed this thread the first time around so I get to jump in now. I got my 12/14 nearly ten years ago and did a full resto on it. I love it, use it every day. A lot of people put routers in the wing of their 10" saw. I put a full size shaper in the wing of my 12/14 (plus a router table in the wing of my PM65.)

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[John Gulick]

SIX years and going strong.. Ours is running great, but we could use the extra arbor extension for a 12" dado set. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance

[Dave Cav]

SIX years and going strong.. Ours is running great, but we could use the extra arbor extension for a 12" dado set. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance

Grizzly used to make a clone of the 12/14 and the arbor stub and other parts would fit. The saw and parts are out of production but a call to Grizzly might turn up some in a corner somewhere.

More info here:

http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/1214GrizzlyParts.ashx

[Charlie Jones]

Very nice big saw. You will love restoring and using it.

[Martin Wasner]

Six and a half year old thread....


Now seven and a half year old thread.....

[Jeff Heath]

Old threads revived, with additional information added, can be very helpful to individuals who, in the future, search the forum for information regarding this topic. The machine is from the 70's, and the information added will be relevant for another 50 years, at least.

The 12/14 is a very good saw. I had the Crescent badged version back in 2010, and sold it to a OWWM member who absolutely coveted it because of it's badging. The Delta crowd can get quite ravenous over their favorite brand.

[John Gulick]

We had a victory in the shop today with our 12 - 14.

I have been researching the arbor extensions used for running a dado set and was finding often the factory (short) arbor was not easily removed. Our saw does not have an internal hex on the extension, just flats to grab. We grabbed the collar with a pipe wrench and spun the arbor off with a 3/4" open end wrench on the flats. Monday I will be at my local machine shop and have them make an arbor with 2" of acme threads to accept the 1" dado sat.

[Bill Dufour]

Old thread I know but I am finally getting my 12/14 into the shop after an all summer long cleanup etc.
You can run that 7.5Hp motor on a 3 phase VFD with no problems. It will run fine but only develop 3hp or whatever hp you can provide. I would install a 3hp vfd for now and keep watching for a good price on a bigger vfd.
Bill D.