Kickback Hurts! (WARNING! GORY PICTURES!!) [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Peter Aeschliman

07-30-2011, 2:07 PM

If you're not okay with blood, do not scroll down and look at the pictures below!!!!!!

I'm posting this as a reminder to you guys not to do stupid things on the tablesaw. I know that probably goes without saying, but I hope the nasty pictures below remind you guys how important this is!!!!

Like I said, I was doing something incredibly stupid. I deserve any ridicule you guys throw my way, so don't worry about hurting my feelings!

I was cutting a small block (approx 3x3x2) of walnut on the tablesaw, trying to make a sanding block for a large cove molding I made (which I made using the diagonal cut method on the TS). I was making angled cuts to remove the bulk of the material before going over to my disk sander to refine the curves.

I have Sawstop PCS cabinet saw, which is a left tilt saw. Obviously I'm a believer in the SS technology, but also obvious is that it doesn't do anything to prevent kickback, especially an extreme situation like this... The first cut I made with the fence to the right of the tilted blade (good). Long story short, based on the shape of the workpiece, I had to make the second cut on the left side of the blade. Obviously this is idiotic and I knew it. You never want to cut with the blade tilted toward the fence, and even worse, you don't want to do that with small workpiece that you can't hold down adequately as it passes through the blade. So it should be no surprise to any of us here that the work piece kicked back.

And holy cow did it ever. It flew back and hit me square in the forehead. I literally did not see it coming. I saw a bright flash of white light and fell straight on my butt. It left a nasty, deep gash on my forehead, all the way down to the skull.

I grabbed my forehead and it was immediately swollen up. The amount of blood was actually shocking. All I felt was the impact paint, not the pain from cut flesh.

I used every bad word in the book, stumbled to my feet, turned off the saw and DC and began the 200 yard walk uphill to my parents' house (my shop is in an out-building on their property). Luckily my dad is a doctor and he was home. I was covered in blood and obviously his first thought was that something much worse happened. I'd take a shot to the forehead over amputation any day.

Anyway, long story longer, he took me to the ER and they stitched me up. Like I said, the cut was all the way down to the skull. They did a cat scan and luckily I didn't fracture my skull. But the cut his huge. I might have to see a plastic surgeon at some point, but we're goign to see how it heals up.

One of the nurse techs was "kind" enough to point out that it's in the shape of a large "L" ("L" for loser)... LOL, so now I'm really hoping it heals well.

I'm leaving a bunch of space before the pics so that some of you don't have to look at them if you don't want to. The second pic is my skull. I hope this is the only time I ever see my own skull! lol

Remember guys, if your instinct tells you that an operation isn't safe, that's because it isn't safe. Don't do it. Step back and think of a safer way to accomplish the operation. In my case, I would've just gone to the sander to remove the material. Slower, but much safer. I knew better but I was being impatient.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h255/peteraeschliman/photo1-1.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h255/peteraeschliman/photo2-1.jpg

Bobby O'Neal

07-30-2011, 2:12 PM

Yeesh. It sounds like you knew better before you started. Glad you're ok. Could have been worse. Were you wearing eye protection?

Tom Ewell

07-30-2011, 2:27 PM

I've been fairly lucky (so far) in only suffering bruises to the flesh and ego after that instant moment of astonishment in the shop.

Glad to hear it's not too bad, cute "L" on the forehead too.

Ken Fitzgerald

07-30-2011, 2:32 PM

Peter....glad you weren't more seriously hurt.

I own a Ridgid TS3650 contractor's saw. I am one of those who always uses blade guard and this particular saw has a splitter on the blade guard. In the past few months, I have been amazed how many pieces of wood I have been ripping and watched the wood close onto the splitter. I have been amazed. If I hadn't been using the blade guard and splitter, I hate to think what could have happened. The only time I don't use it is when I am cutting dados with my dado blade.

I'll bet your injury will be black and blue and sore later today!

Glad there was no skull fracture or internal hemorrhaging!

David Nelson1

07-30-2011, 2:51 PM

Holy Crap!!!!! Dude I'm glad your ok. I'm with Ken on the blade guards and splitter. Would have help you cause maybe you couldn't access the area. Whew I'm glad your ok. Start thinking of some amusing stories for the scar. You might as well have fun with it.

glenn bradley

07-30-2011, 2:55 PM

If you were going to get it in the face I think that was the best spot. Softer tissue like lips, nose and ear shreds so poorly. Glad it wasn't worse and we can all ALWYAS use a reminder. Its always that one quick thing that'll get ya.

Joseph Tarantino

07-30-2011, 3:09 PM

that is a nasty wound. you are extremely lucky that it wasn't much worse. good reminder to those of us that play with serious "toys" to be careful and sensible at all times.

Ron Jones near Indy

07-30-2011, 3:14 PM

Glad it wasn't worse. Wow! I'm also in that exclusive group of guard users. Splitters or riving knives--don't turn your saw on without one.

ray hampton

07-30-2011, 3:18 PM

glad that it were not more serious, now you need a good story to explain the scar to strangers

Ken Fitzgerald

07-30-2011, 3:25 PM

Rick Potter

07-30-2011, 3:35 PM

I don't think my Beis splitter would have worked on a workpiece that small. Glad you were not hurt worse. Good reminder for us all.

I would tell people I got kicked by a horse at roundup time.

Rick Potter

Paul Grant

07-30-2011, 3:35 PM

Can't beleive you were not knocked out. You could have fell on the blade or worse. Thanks for the wake up call. L is for loser?? How about L is for Lived to talk about it.

David Kumm

07-30-2011, 3:36 PM

I'm not sure there is anything to protect you when cutting that small a piece on a tablesaw. I'm still looking for ways to cut carved moldings that need to match in small pieces carefully. Thanks for being willing to shock us into being more careful period. We all do things that afterwards seem really dumb. Somedays I'm just in an impatient crappy mood but I have learned to shut off the power and watch TV that day. Dave

Neil Brooks

07-30-2011, 4:40 PM

All I can think of is that old pilot's saying: any landing that you walk away from is a good landing.

But ... yikes ... that looks pretty bad.

Heal quickly, and get back to making dust.

Note to self: yes, you recently ordered a SS, but it will NEVER take the place of every other safety precaution !

johnny means

07-30-2011, 4:41 PM

Too bad you didn't accidentally put your forehead into the blade, then your SS would have saved you some stiches.:D But seriously, I would like to point out that getting hit in the forehead with a peice of lumber is not how 99.99% of table saw accidents occur and that your Sawstop probably would have saved you from 99% of blood drawing or maiming occurences.

Don Morris

07-30-2011, 5:15 PM

Peter,

Thanks for posting and willing to take the hits. Most of us have had kick backs, yours was just a bad one and that just serves to remind us to think of the TS as a real dangerous weapon. Every now and then I find myself just about to start a procedure on mine that I shouldn't. Thankfully, I stop, rethink how I should be doing it. I have a Biesemeyer splitter with anti kick back pawls among other devices. That should have stopped that. Also use Grippers, so it depends on what I'm doing...what to use.

Glad you're OK, and just be thankful it hit your head, not your eye. These posts always cause us to think and review procedures. How can that not be a most helpful post?

Jack Parks

07-30-2011, 5:32 PM

Peter,

Thanks for the sobering reminder of what can happen when a 3hp motor throws a baseball size block of wood at you. I am glad you are OK and it did not cause a more serious head injury. From what you described you were doing, I would recommend using a bandsaw next time. I pray you will heal soon and not need any plastic surgery.

Jack

Peter Quinn

07-30-2011, 5:57 PM

I'm glad your ok. I pray for your speedy recovery. Now let me be the first to introduce you to my little friend, THE BANDSAW! Draw the cove, cut the shape even on small pieces with no danger of kick back, skip the hospital part. There is no safe way to make that cut on a TS, guard, no guard, just no good on a piece that small. When I need to do something similar I use a longer piece I can control and make 10 sanding blocks if necessary, or just use the BANDSAW. Did I mention BS yet? Even if you have to glue up some scrap to get to the size block you need, take the time and do it, or you will get to know the EMT's on a fist name basis.

Thanks for posting the reminder and the pics to prove it, this may save another from having a similar lapse in judgement. I know a long time professional wood worker that did something similar making fence post caps. He dropped a piece of slippery cedar onto the spinning blade while retrieving it and knocked himself out cold while working alone in his shop. A guy in the next shop down noticed that the saw had been running for some time but he had not heard a single cut for at least 1/2 hour, went to check on him, found him sleeping on the floor. So your actually luckily that you got up on your own!

Be well. Work safe.

Joe Adams

07-30-2011, 6:02 PM

Thanks for reminding everyone that a workshop can be a dangerous place. It's all to easy to take a chance, do something we know better than, lose concentration, become nonchalant, not think things through, work without safety apparatus, etc.

I work with my brother and we tend to look out for each other more than we would for ourselves. A sternly delivered, "Don't even think about trying that!" has saved me from possible harm more than once. For those who work alone, listen for that still small voice in your gut and don't ignore it.

You can buy more wood. Fingers and thumbs are pretty much irreplaceable.

Peter Aeschliman

07-30-2011, 6:13 PM

Thanks guys for the kind words! I'm glad you all find this reminder useful. To answer a few questions:

No, I wasn't using the blade guard, but I was using my riving knife. My blade guard does have two sets of pawls on each side (small ones and large ones)... but as a few others have said, the blade tilting toward the fence plus the very small work piece was a recipe for disaster. When the piece kicked back, it hadn't even reached the riving knife yet. The splitter and riving knife couldn't do anything to prevent this particular accident.

Yes, I was wearing eye protection (protective glasses). After this accident though, I'm going to invest in a set that can withstand an impact like this. I can't imagine my glasses would've survived this. I do have a full-face guard I could've worn but those things are pretty cumbersome.

Bill Huber

07-30-2011, 6:19 PM

So they did a CAT scan and didn't fine anything :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Glad you are going to be ok and I am sure you learned a lot on this one.

Myk Rian

07-30-2011, 6:25 PM

You're right. That was stupid. :rolleyes:
At least you have a nice NIKE symbol on your head. Do you wear their shoes?

Sorry. I had to say that.

Harvey Pascoe

07-30-2011, 6:36 PM

Yeah, thanks for the reminder because I normally work with small pieces and the splitter is zero help. What happened to him is that the piece cocked slightly and away she went. The squarish size of the block almost guaranteed the result.

BANDSAW, INDEED!

My biggest kick back problem is cutting small pieces of 1/8" plywood where the upward wind created by the back side of the blade can lift the workpiece or cut off so that the teeth catch it and throw it at me. I should be using a plywood blade for this.

Jim Neeley

07-30-2011, 6:55 PM

Peter,

Thanks for the wake-up call.. I know there's been a couple of times when, just a split-second before something bad happened, I thought "this is REALLY stupid". I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

I'd like to add one more safety point that I'm working really hard to enforce on myself: looking down the blade as the cut is being made, placing yourself in the line of flight. I don't have a SS but I have the new Uni with the kerfing knife and anti-kickback pawls and I've seen both "exercised" due to internal wood stress. Each time I was glad I had the off-switch mounted at hip level.

Thanks again for posting your experience today and I hope you get healed up quickly and it doesn't scar too badly.

Randy Dutkiewicz

07-30-2011, 6:55 PM

Peter,

As the others have said, thank you for the sobering reminder of just how danger stares each of us in the face with each cut made on the TS. I'm happy to hear you are OK. It's these types of posts that (unfortunately) we as woodworkers with very powerful machinery need to see every once in a while to keep us vigilant and SAFE! Take care and hope your recovery works out well.

Randy

Peter Aeschliman

07-30-2011, 7:05 PM

So they did a CAT scan and didn't fine anything :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ha ha I just read back through and saw this. Good one!

Jacob Mac

07-30-2011, 7:34 PM

Thanks for the reminder. Glad you did not suffer any long term problems. If that hit you in the glasses, you could have been in much worse shape if your glasses broke.

Bob Turkovich

07-30-2011, 7:41 PM

take the time and do it, or you will get to know the EMT's on a fist name basis.

Ok, Peter Q. I've gotta know....was that an intended pun or a typo?

Peter A.

Glad you survived. I had a similar small block projectile incident. Caught me in the lower jaw. An inch higher and I would have lost some teeth. A couple of inches lower and it would have hit the middle of the throat. The cut I had couldn't be stitched or glued so I had to wear a bandage pad that looked like the strap to a football helmet (without the helmet.)

The yellow "dymo" tape came out soon afterward - with large font - placed right next to the power switch - to remind me if it feels a little awkward, don't make the cut.

Joe Adams

07-30-2011, 7:56 PM

yellow "dymo" tape???

Richard Wagner

07-30-2011, 8:24 PM

Thanks for posting this. We all need a reminder now and then. I hope you have a rapid recovery.

BTW, short pieces are inclined to get you like that. It has something to do with getting out of alignment with the blade and using a push stick can be more trouble yet (with a small piece). Control of the work piece is the under lying issue. I've been thumped like that a couple times. I am slowly learning - table saws can hurt.

Thankfully, though you were hurt bad it does not seem like it will be serious. Again, speedy recovery!!

Phil Thien

07-30-2011, 10:54 PM

glenn bradley

07-30-2011, 11:09 PM

I could be wrong and if I am correct me.

The guard I use has spring loaded pawls on it that most likely would have prevented this.

Does the guard on the SS have those too......and a splitter?

Pardon my ignorance.

From the description of the procedure and the size of the material, I doubt pawls would have been able to stop the launch. The projectile may have mutilated the left hand pawl on its way out of the chute and the pawl may have changed the trajectory (which would have been nice). The "safe" side differs with the tilt of your saw but, I think of it basically as:

Ken Fitzgerald

07-30-2011, 11:51 PM

Glenn,

I understand that problem. That's why I use a left tilt saw.

I just wasn't familiar with the SS blade guard system.

On my Ridgid, the blade guard and splitter tilts with the saw blade. Whether or not it would have an effect type of incident I am not sure.

Bud Millis

07-31-2011, 1:44 AM

WOW! Thats crazy, glad your ok. Hopefully the L will heal and you won't see that.

Brian Deakin

07-31-2011, 5:45 AM

Firstly I hope you are recovered from your accident, my heart goes out to you

Thank you for posting the pictures it gives us all a salutary reminder of the importance of working safely

The following leaflet may provide some additional guidance for other users

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

A (http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf)gain best wishes for a full recovery

regards Brian

Carl Civitella

07-31-2011, 6:27 AM

Glad you are ok, but keep a close watch on your self. My BIL took a fall down a short set of stairs and hurt his head. He said he was fine, a month later he was walking around dazed and passed out in his driveway. Rushed to the hospital. here there was blood build up on is brain, they had to drill into his head to releive the build up preasure. He is fine now after a week in the hospital. Luck of the lucky.. Carl

Steve Rowe

07-31-2011, 8:14 AM

Glad you are OK and that is going to leave a scar. This is clear evidence that one should never cut a piece that small on the tablesaw without it being adequately secured to a jig or fixture. Looking back on over 30 years of woodworking, nearly every accident that I have experienced began with a "small piece of wood".

Chris Fournier

07-31-2011, 10:41 AM

Thanks for posting this reminder to all of us that accidents happen when we think that a set up is dangerous and carry on regardless. I have been bitten going ahead with an uncomfortable set up once or twice. "L" is for lucky! I hope that you heal well and get back on the horse that threw you.

Doug Morgan

07-31-2011, 10:48 AM

We are not going to throw stones because we all have done something stupid. I got kickback one time. 1/4" plywood, no knife behind the blade and it became a flying saucer to the point where it hit me in the stomach. Knocked the wind out of me and left me with a huge bruise. It took several minutes for me to catch my breath and figure out just what had happened.

I am so glad that you're ok. L is not for looser its for LUCKY. Lucky that thing wasn't lower to take out an eye or worse.

Kevin Gregoire

07-31-2011, 1:07 PM

im glad your okay also and that it wasnt worse!
i have respect for all my machines but the TS is the one that makes me nervous every time i use it.
probably cause back in shop class our teacher had a glass jar hanging above the TS with a students
fingers from an accident years before. that was from a kickback that went very wrong so i never
forget that jar every time i use my saw.

just glad your alright and it wasnt worse and hopefully it heals up good but just remember the saying
'Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever'.

Peter Aeschliman

07-31-2011, 2:42 PM

im glad your okay also and that it wasnt worse!i have respect for all my machines but the TS is the one that makes me nervous every time i use it.probably cause back in shop class our teacher had a glass jar hanging above the TS with a studentsfingers from an accident years before. that was from a kickback that went very wrong so i neverforget that jar every time i use my saw.just glad your alright and it wasnt worse and hopefully it heals up good but just remember the saying'Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever'.Holy smokes!!! Yeah I think that would be hard to forget!!

Peter Aeschliman

07-31-2011, 2:53 PM

A few questions:(1) How high above the stock were the blade's teeth?(2) Is there any damage to the blade? Does it still run true?Normally, I just wouldn't expect kickback like this with the blade tilted into the fence. For that to happen, the blade would have to deflect enough for the wood to squeeze between the blade and the fence so it can ride the top of the teeth and shoot towards you.Phil, the blade was probably 1/4 of an inch above the workpiece (just enough for the gullets to clear).I got back on the saddle yesterday and used the ts. The blade seems to cut cleanly without excessive vibration but because of your post I,ll be breaking out the dial indicator today. One thing I did notice is that the riving knife is way out of alignment. It's in line with the kerf but it's sitting almost a full inch above the blade. So I think I'll be spending a few hours with the ts today.

Peter Aeschliman

07-31-2011, 3:04 PM

Oh and thanks for the bandsaw suggestion guy. In hindsight that was clearly the right choice.

Jim Matthews

07-31-2011, 5:41 PM

This thread should be sticky in the FAQ section.

After my "basic training" in machine tool techniques, I scratched the tablesaw off my requirements list.

We were taught:

Wear ear and eye protection at the table saw.
Never cut anything shorter than 12".

Never rip anything so narrow as it requires push-stick thinner than the blade.

Stand to the side of the side of the clearance plate (the launch zone of the aircraft hanger).
Never place hands on the clearance plate.

The physics of a table saw are immutable.

I'm genuinely horrified at this accident.
I hope for your speedy recovery.

James Baker SD

07-31-2011, 6:12 PM

I guess sometimes we have to get hurt before we wake up. I had a kickback where the TS grabbed the board I was cutting and threw it over my shoulder at about head height. It penetrated a 1/2" thick plywood cabinet door on the other side of the shop, but I was not hurt so I did not wake up. After that same saw mangled a finger on my left hand, a brilliant surgeon put the finger back together, and 6 months of physical therapy taught me to use the hand again, then I woke up and never, but never use my TS without all its safety equipment installed. If I cannot do it safely, I do it slowly with a hand saw. Glad you are recovering and will have another day in the shop.

Mike Heidrick

07-31-2011, 6:15 PM

Gary Herrmann

07-31-2011, 7:16 PM

Wow. Just wow.

I'll repeat a suggestion. Band saw.

Peter, I'm glad you're ok and wish you a speedy recovery. Please do listen to the little voice in your head. Also glad to see you have a sense of humor about this. And to follow up on that...

Have you thought of changing your name to Larry to explain the scar?

Stay out of the shop awhile so you don't get sawdust in your stitches. Be patient with your parents when they get on you about this. It's because they love you.

Peter Aeschliman

07-31-2011, 7:53 PM

I hope you heal soon.Was there no way to use the riving knife? Before my SS I was not using a guard and got hit in the gut from kickback - in 2005. For six months I wore the 3/4"X3/4" Big L as well and it cut me through my shirt and did not cut thw shirt - literally pressed it into me! Next day my delta QA splitter was installed. Now on the SS a guard is always used (mostly the RK) whenever possible. I am also a fan of the bandsaw. I did a quick check on scar prevention. Lots of good reading out there.I had the riving knife on the saw. Problem was the work piece was so short that it didn't reach the riving knife before it kicked back. I'll never cut a piece that small on the table saw again.
Wow. Just wow.I'll repeat a suggestion. Band saw. Peter, I'm glad you're ok and wish you a speedy recovery. Please do listen to the little voice in your head. Also glad to see you have a sense of humor about this. And to follow up on that...Have you thought of changing your name to Larry to explain the scar? Stay out of the shop awhile so you don't get sawdust in your stitches. Be patient with your parents when they get on you about this. It's because they love you.Bandsaw for sure. My parents aren't on my case because I'm on my own case... Lol

Peter Aeschliman

07-31-2011, 7:55 PM

This thread should be sticky in the FAQ section.After my "basic training" in machine tool techniques, I scratched the tablesaw off my requirements list.We were taught:Wear ear and eye protection at the table saw.Never cut anything shorter than 12".Never rip anything so narrow as it requires push-stick thinner than the blade.Stand to the side of the side of the clearance plate (the launch zone of the aircraft hanger).Never place hands on the clearance plate.The physics of a table saw are immutable.I'm genuinely horrified at this accident.I hope for your speedy recovery....quoting for emphasis... These are excellent rules... Worth printing out and hanging in the shop.

Larry Edgerton

07-31-2011, 8:02 PM

Have you thought of changing your name to Larry to explain the scar?
.

Hey now! Don't be picking on the Larrys!

You can mount a mirror on the wall across from the saw and you will always have a reminder........

I have a lump on my stomach where a small piece of cedar hit me about 25 years ago. I was making an octagon about a foot long. learned not to do that. I figured it out and most blades are about 110mph at the teeth. Usually they get full traction before they leave the blade so you are getting hit at 110. Looks like that one got some spin on her as well.

My worst safety nightmare is people scaring me. I have cut the same finger off twice when being startled. I'm a jumpy sort of guy to begin with, so if someone comes up behind me I jump, into a saw apparently.

Good looking skull you have there......

Larry

Prashun Patel

07-31-2011, 9:14 PM

I'm glad yr ok. Every time I see a post like this, I feel a shudder and hear that tiny voice saying "you're next".

David Hanames

07-31-2011, 9:45 PM

Glad you're okay.

You have absolutely convinced me to use my bandsaw for small pieces.

Hope that heals up quickly.

Stephen Olson

08-01-2011, 12:02 AM

Ouch! I sometimes think that I'm a little over the top about safety, but incidents like this are a reminder that there is no such thing as being too cautious when dealing with power tools. I have a shredded push stick that I kept as a reminder of just how much damage can be done (and how quickly it can happen) when dealing with a table saw. Not only did the saw blade blow apart the end of the stick, but it also launched it out of my hand and ten feet back into the wall (fortunately I was standing to the side of the blade and was out of the line of fire). When I upgraded to a 52" fence on my TS, I made it a point to re-mount the power switch as far to the left as I could as a constant reminder to stay safely out of the way of flying pieces (I keep my hip next to the paddle and always bump the power off as soon as the workpiece clears the rear of the blade).

Peter Aeschliman

08-01-2011, 12:43 AM

Hey now! Don't be picking on the Larrys!
My worst safety nightmare is people scaring me. I have cut the same finger off twice when being startled. I'm a jumpy sort of guy to begin with, so if someone comes up behind me I jump, into a saw apparently.
Larry

WHAT?!? Did I read that correctly? You've cut the same finger off twice?? Man, I feel like a huge wuss now. lol

Yeah, I get really angry at people when they walk into the shop while a machine is running. I keep meaning to put signs outside of the doors saying to wait until all machinery is off before knocking or coming in. It amazes me how people expect you to look up at them and wave while you're in the middle of a cut.

The swelling is starting to get pretty intense. THe doctor told me not to ice it because it could impede the healing process, or even further damage the fragile tissue. So he'd rather have it swell up. I'm expecting to have black and blue eyes tomorrow as the blood drains down my face. I'm going to really disgust people at the office tomorrow! ha ha

John Coloccia

08-01-2011, 6:52 AM

I could be wrong and if I am correct me.

The guard I use has spring loaded pawls on it that most likely would have prevented this.

Does the guard on the SS have those too......and a splitter?

Pardon my ignorance.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see that anyone ever answered your question. The SS blade guard has pawls on it. The blade guard is mounted to a splitter. For non-through cuts, or when you can't use a guard (like slicing thin sticks), the whole assembly pops out and can be replaced with just a riving knife.

I'm honestly not sure how much help the pawls would be for a kickback like this. I made a very rough calculation once (if you search you may be able to find it here) and estimated that a kickback generates something like 400lbs of force. The pawls work well to keep the work from creeping back just due to friction but I wonder if they wouldn't just get bent or broken from a real kickback. I've asked around and no one I know has ever seen a kickback with the splitter in place (which is what the pawls are attached to) but I'd love to know if someone has ever had a kickback that the pawls where able to hold and contain. With the splitter in place, though, the kickback will be limited so you'll never generate the same kind of force you could with a bare blade.

Larry Edgerton

08-01-2011, 6:56 AM

Its always fun to make up stories........

Skydiving accident, chute didn't open......

Ran ito Zoro......

Labotomy, had too many brains......

Meteor.........

Swordfishing accident......

Have fun with it, I would......

Larry

ken gibbs

08-01-2011, 7:20 AM

Was the project OK?

Jeremy Sullivan

08-01-2011, 12:06 PM

Peter,
I'm glad you're able to type, think, and be alive. Personally, I've been knocked back into a wall by kickback, driven to the ER for a bandsaw, and knocked silly by my own tool handle while hollowing a bowl and getting a nasty catch. I have some "modern art" blood spatter on my pretty white wall from years ago, which I use as a reminder to myself. We've all been there. Even when we are being smart and exercising our due diligence, accidents happen.
When I had some skin torn off my face (I was a bike messenger in NYC back when I was invincible), a VietNam vet friend of mine told me he had used Palmer's cocoa butter cream (not lotion - the thick cream) when he was hit in the face with shrapnel, and it saved him from the uglies (he still wore a mustache for where the cuts were too deep). I tried it, and it saved me from being the scary guy in the supermarket :) I hope your cut heals well. Let us know, and don't be too hard on yourself - now you are a more careful woodworker than you were last week!

Jeremy

Dave Mura

08-01-2011, 12:37 PM

Wow good to know you're ok!
http://couponfit.com/img/b052e2e0c0ad1b2d5036bd56e27d061c.gifhttp://couponfit.com/img/7e889fb76e0e07c11733550f2a6c7a5a.gifhttp://couponfit.com/img/d6cf4da5ced8580c991e16fb54faa1b6.gif

Chuong Nguyen

08-01-2011, 1:01 PM

Wow...so glad you are ok enough to post this. I tend to get braver and careless with experience, so this puts me back down to earth.

Brian Vaughn

08-01-2011, 1:12 PM

There's really only one explanation needed...you went to go see the newest Harry Potter movie, and got REALLY into the story. (Note, this works better if you make a wand to take to work with you)

Glad to hear you're okay, but it is a sobering reminder for those of us who don't always use all the included safety devices on any of our tools (Not just the table saw.)

Peter Aeschliman

08-01-2011, 2:26 PM

Was the project OK?

Yeah, the project was unaffected. The piece I was working on was a sanding block for some cove molding I made. So I wasn't cutting any pieces for the project directly.

I eventually found the block of wood. I figured that it would've been behind where I was standing. I looked and looked and couldn't find it (my shop could be tidier I guess). I eventually found it on the other end of the shop. Meaning, it flew back the way it came. My head absorbed 100% of the impact. Pretty surprising that I didn't break my skull or even have a concussion.

Chris Tsutsui

08-01-2011, 3:04 PM

That is the craziest kickback injury i've ever seen, and a seriously gory photograph.

I think he is lucky to be alive for that piece could have hit him in the nose, eye, neck, etc and caused some serious trama.

If I was to get hit anywhere in the head it would be that spot for it has the thickest part of the skull.

Thanks for the epic share for i'm sure i'm going to share this story with others so that we all appreciate tablesaw safety.

Doug Morgan

08-01-2011, 3:12 PM

OK I finally figured out what you were thinking. HARRY POTTER! You know with that Z on his forehead? You just had to have an "L". So ok where is your wand?

Peter Aeschliman

08-01-2011, 4:02 PM

OK I finally figured out what you were thinking. HARRY POTTER! You know with that Z on his forehead? You just had to have an "L". So ok where is your wand?

I did see the Harry Potter movie the night before... I think you're on to something there!

michael case

08-01-2011, 4:46 PM

I'm glad your OK! Thank you for your thoughtful reminder.

alan whitehead

08-03-2011, 9:23 AM

I had a kick back with my table saw. I never saw the kick back, but I heard it hit the wall in back of me. I decided right then that I could not trust myself to follow the rules 100 % of the time. Rarely did I use it again. I ended up giving it to someone. I now use a jigsaw to cut my wood, much ,much more safer in my case. I cut , then sand to perfection using my jigsaw.
I am glad you are OK. Thanks for sharing your mishap.

Bret Duffin

08-03-2011, 8:20 PM

Peter,

I have an almost identical scar on my forehead but mine reads correctly when looking in the mirror so to most people I look like even a bigger looser not being able to write correctly while disfiguring my face. My accident was from stupidly using a chain saw instead of a table saw and fortunately I was wearing safety glasses which were cut in half at the nose bridge. I was cutting firewood with a friend at the time and after the painful whack to the forehead with the tip of the saw I immediately applied pressure and walked over to where my friend was, who was unaware of my problem until then. I tapped him on the shoulder and when he looked up I removed my hand from my forehead and asked him "How bad is it?", upon which he immediately fainted. I was able to revive him and he drove me to the ER.

True story, Bret

ps It's a faint scar, the doc did a good job.

Duane Bledsoe

08-03-2011, 9:10 PM

L is for "lucky that wasn't any worse". Wow, that's gory!

Jerry Wright

08-06-2011, 9:16 PM

Peter - I can identify. While I have been using tablesaws for 55 years, in January, I was stupidly notching a small (2"x4") piece out of a large piece 8/4 cherry. I had already made one cut where the squareness was really important and I was cutting off the waste piece using the fence as a guide. I successfully made the cut, and the waste piece was neatly parked between the fence and the back edge of the spinning blade. Instead of shutting down the saw, and waiting to push out the cut piece, I tried to push it out with a stick. It twisted a bit, walked up the blade and came back like a rifle shot. It hit me in the lower lip. I received 12 internal and 6 external stitches and really clobbered four lower front teeth. Fortunately, the teeth are still there. The piece of cherry has teeth imprints in the end grain that match an impression of my right canine tooth and the two lower front teeth to the left. The impression of the canine tooth into the cherry measures 1/8" deep!! I now use the piece of cherry as a pull knob on a light directly over the saw. I could have taught a saw safety course the day before and covered this topic nicely. In a hurry, distracted - maybe. Not thinking, certainly. What I try to do now is make every cut as if I were watching one of my children do it! In retrospect, I should have made the first cut on the tablesaw, and the second on my bandsaw - which is 3 ft. away!! Could the kick back pawls have prevented this? Sure, they would have stopped me from even trying. Probably a lesson in that!!!

Angie Orfanedes

08-07-2011, 1:45 PM

Peter,

Best wishes for your wound and your pride to recover. Unfortunately, too many of us, including me, have done things that resulted in pain. My right hand is suffering from a hit it took last week, as a result of trying to drill an unsecured piece of metal. I find it hard to complain when I am a victim of my own stupidity. I still try to remember to say a prayer for protection when I am starting in my shop, and a prayer of thanks when I make it through safely (or just a little banged - up). Thank you for the reminder.

Angie

Scott Driemel

08-07-2011, 3:21 PM

I understand your warning to viewers about the "Gore" aspect of your wound. I do think it was prudent to show the injury and applaud you for doing so. I've seen pics of bruises, small lacerations etc but never a pic like yours. It's been years & years since I had one of these (never on the head mind you) and it is easy to have time minimize the potential for risk. Your pics have once again slapped me out of complacency when operating my table saws. For that I send you a heartfelt "thanks". You sharing might have just reinforced the safety procedures I needed to refresh myself on. Terribly sorry that you had to have the accident but be assured, I for one will once again, tune up my "on guard" attitude when working on my saw! Thanks again.

Peter Aeschliman

08-09-2011, 12:42 AM

I understand your warning to viewers about the "Gore" aspect of your wound. I do think it was prudent to show the injury and applaud you for doing so. I've seen pics of bruises, small lacerations etc but never a pic like yours. It's been years & years since I had one of these (never on the head mind you) and it is easy to have time minimize the potential for risk. Your pics have once again slapped me Glad out of complacency when operating my table saws. For that I send you a heartfelt "thanks". You sharing might have just reinforced the safety procedures I needed to refresh myself on. Terribly sorry that you had to have the accident but be assured, I for one will once again, tune up my "on guard" attitude when working on my saw! Thanks again.

You're welcome! The reason I posted this is to make sure I'm not the only person who learns from my mistake!

Floyd Cox

08-15-2011, 4:36 AM

Peter; I do hope that the recovery goes well. I also need reminders of how dangerous shop equipment can be, but I hate to see it came at your expense.

Brian Kincaid

08-24-2011, 9:30 AM

Peter,
Thanks for educating the community at the expense of your pride. 'L' is for Lucky.

Everybody else,
Before you say to yourself 'that was stupid' think to yourself 'when was the last time I was uncomfortable with a cut and did it anyway' Peter is no different, just got called on it.

-Brian

Brent Ring

08-24-2011, 3:15 PM

Best of luck in your recovery. I have taken one in the gut that took nearly 1 year to completely heal. Not fun. I just dont do small on the table saw, and recently got a slider. Changing my work habits alot to always be to the left or right of the blade.

george wilson

08-24-2011, 9:26 PM

sarah schell

08-25-2011, 2:41 PM

Glad to hear you're ok--bet you had a killer headache though. This may sound like a stupid question, but doesn't the blade tilt toward the fence on a right tilt saw? How do you avoid this with that type of saw?

Clint LaFont

08-25-2011, 9:15 PM

Peter,

Glad you're okay! Very scary indeed. One thing that may or may not have been mentioned, some fences are adjusted with a bit of "toe out" or the rear of the fence is away from the blade .001 or so more than the front to help prevent the material from rubbing. If this was the case with your saw, and you switched the fence to the other side, it then wedged the wood into the blade. I don't know, just a thought. Again, glad you're okay!!

Mike Cruz

08-25-2011, 9:33 PM

raul segura

08-26-2011, 12:39 AM

Just tell every one you where breaking bricks and they wont bother you.
That's one amazing war wound.
Ive been clever many times, but cant say I'm sporting a crown like that. Thanks for the heads up. I have to admit I discarded my blade guard and paws.
When on the TS. I always hold my head to one side of the blade, usually the left and never ever us my hands for small pieces. I have two push sticks.
Heal well (L) is for "The Lust for life". So don't cover it with a tattoo !!

Peter Aeschliman

08-26-2011, 2:34 AM

Peter, I took a small piece on the chin a year or so ago. I was THANKFUL that it hit me there. Anywhere else (other than forehead) would have been catastrophic. Luckily, we both had an eye opening experience that we got "lucky" to have walked away from. Best of luck to you and your recovery.

Most importantly, is the saw ok?

Ha- yeah the saw is fine. I noticed the next day that the riving knife was riding a lot higher than the blade. It's a sawstop cabinet saw, so the blade is designed to drop below the table when the brake is activated. Turns out the blade had dropped slightly when the kickback occurred so it was just a matter of pushing the mechanism back up (hard to explain without showing you).

Got the dial indicator out and all was good.

I've left the blood on the shop floor as a reminder... I also found the block of wood on the other side of the shop (meaning, it hit my forehead and flew back from whence it came)... I drilled a hole it in and hung it at eye level above the table saw. Hopefully I don't allow myself to get complacent again!!

Christopher Hawkins

08-26-2011, 9:59 PM

I could be wrong and if I am correct me.

The guard I use has spring loaded pawls on it that most likely would have prevented this.

Does the guard on the SS have those too......and a splitter?

Pardon my ignorance.

Yes. The guard has spring loaded pawls. It also comes with a splitter. Changing between the two is a 45 second job. No kidding, I timed it and I wasn't rushing. One finger to remove the TS insert, move a lever 90* to release the splitter or guard, put replace the splitter or guard, close lever, replace insert and you are ready to go.

Kevin W Johnson

10-02-2011, 3:40 AM

When I first got into school shop,and had never used a table saw,I was running a 3' long piece of mahogany through the saw,with the blade tilted TOWARDS the fence. The piece was long and narrow,not more than 3/8" thick at the most. The piece of wood got grabbed by the blade,of course,and shot out of the saw,and stuck into an old wooden boat like an arrow. I was standing in the proper place and was not hurt.

That was the last time I tried cutting something with the blade tilted towards the fence. I've always wondered WHY Delta made their Unisaw for many,many years,with the blade tilting towards the fence. Always a bother having to lower the blade,and put the fence on the other side of the blade. Actually,I knew better even then,but as an impatient kid,I thought I could get away with it. I HAD seen the shop teacher demonstrate the proper use of the saw. HE had 2 kick backs while doing it!!!

My first year in shop in high school..... The teacher, who was new, had went into the shop one day before the school year started and was checking out the equipment. He started the planer..... one blade flew out the infeed side, into the lumber stoage room, the other two went out the outfeed side, thru the roll up garage door. He actually quit that day, and had to be talked into coming back. Someone the year before had not properly tightened the screws upon reinstalling the blades.

Peter Aeschliman

02-02-2013, 1:56 AM

I've received a few requests for some updated scar pictures. So here I am today, a year and a half later. It's a meaningful scar, no doubt! Be careful guys. Respect your tools, and listen to your instinct!

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h255/peteraeschliman/IMAG0228.jpg

Mike Cutler

02-02-2013, 8:13 AM

Peter.

Glad to see that it healed up. I guess you could invent good bar stories for it, but thank you for being honest about how it actually happened. Will you have further surgeries to hide the scars?

I remember in the 8th grade the Wood shop teacher demonstrating kickback to us. He launched a piece of wood about 30' through the air and took a 4" section of an old slate blackboard out the board. That hole was there the entire time I was in school, and his classes.
It was more of an object lesson than he intended to give, but 40+ years later, I've not forgotten it.

John Piwaron

02-02-2013, 9:05 AM

With enough time the scar will "melt" away. But that's on the order of decades.

When people that don't know me ask about mine I make up a good story before telling the truth. If they're going to be intrusive, I'm going to tell a whopper. But leave them with the truth which is a lot less interesting.

John Piwaron

02-02-2013, 9:13 AM

Good for you. You came through it fairly unscathed. Lose any IQ points? :) (just kidding)

What'd you learn from your experience? I learn something from everything I do with them. Sometimes it's "that's a good chisel for that task", sometimes it's "damn! don't do that again!" There's a lot fewer of those nowadays.

Kickbacks happen. I had one once from my planer. the board shot back and shattered when it hit the basement wall. yikes. Good thing I don't stand behind my tools. I use my TS to cut tenons. sometimes one of the little offcuts will get launched. I'm also to the side for that.

Mark Largent

02-02-2013, 10:25 AM

Thanks for posting this! It's a good wakeup call.

There was an article in the NY Times recently by Jered Diamond (the guy who won the Pulitzer for writing Guns, Germs and Steel). He does a lot of research on primitive societies and how they think about risk. He wrote about how many of the tribal societies are much better at understanding the serious threat represented by very small risks that are taken regularly. For example, if the chance of you falling in the shower and hurting yourself is 1:1,000, about once every three years you're going to fall in the shower. That's a serious threat to someone whose hip is easily shattered. When you start thinking about all the miles we drive, all the boards we cut, all the sharp tools we use, these risks add up quickly. Diamond also explained that when we are in control (or think we are in control), we are much more inclined to take stupid little risks. This is why many people are terrified to fly but happy to drive to the airport .... the drive is much more likely to kill you.

Anyway, all this got me thinking about how stories about injuries to remind us that these little risks are risky, and we take lots of them. The point here isn't to avoid doing anything risky (like showering!), but to be vigilant to mitigate the risks whenever possible. I like all examples that many of you have put up here describing how you are reminded of the real threat these little risks represent to us. Thanks.

Peter Aeschliman

02-02-2013, 11:58 AM

You came through it fairly unscathed. Lose any IQ points?

Ha ha, probably. Problem is, I'm must've been pretty dumb to attempt that cut in the first place. So you get to a point where you're so dumb, you don't notice a change!

What'd you learn from your experience?

Overall, I learned to listen to the voice inside my head (or what's left of it anyway!). I had a tinge of fear before i made the cut. I actually said outloud to myself "this is stupid", yet I went ahead and did it anyway.

Ken Fitzgerald

02-02-2013, 12:16 PM

Peter.....you aren't alone about ignoring that little voice. Ignoring that little voice and being distracted is what caused my recent accident that resulted in 14 stitches in my right wrist. Even a router that has been shut off can be dangerous if you don't wait for it to completely spin down before flipping it over.

John Piwaron

02-02-2013, 1:50 PM

Overall, I learned to listen to the voice inside my head. I had a tinge of fear before i made the cut. I actually said out loud to myself "this is stupid", yet I went ahead and did it anyway.

God knows I've done that too. Being young with the feeling of invincibility works against you. Thinking you've got it all "under control" is an illusion that takes a long time to see through. I listen to that little voice now too. I'll consider other ways to make the cut and go with the one that presents the least risk to me.

Maybe without knowing it, this group has helped me a lot. When I read postings I see other people have taken the cuts and built the things I'm building. It's the descriptions of how they made the cut that show me the alternate method(s).

paul cottingham

02-02-2013, 4:38 PM

Overall, I learned to listen to the voice inside my head (or what's left of it anyway!). I had a tinge of fear before i made the cut. I actually said outloud to myself "this is stupid", yet I went ahead and did it anyway.
Let me assure you that you are the only one. I never ignored that little voice telling me to be (much) more careful with the piece of plywood I was cutting. Nor did it kick back and render my thumb useless for a week (but not broken, thank goodness.) The little voice is rarely wrong.
Of course, the real lesson I learned was to stop using plywood in most of my projects, but that's a different story.

daniel lane

02-03-2013, 1:29 AM

Peter, I'm glad you're doing well. I recall when you first posted this thread and as with most of these types of threads, I read the entire thing to ensure that I learn from others' mistakes. The one thing I can pass along that may help others is something my father taught me - the thing you don't want to do is often the thing you should do. Now it's easy to misinterpret that, but in general, I always hear that as, "when you don't want to bother to go across the room to get a push stick, that's when you should." Or, "when you don't want to reset the fence to the other side of the blade, that's when you should." I've my share of scars from my own muck-ups, but I thank my father for teaching me that...it's a great lesson that's often even applied to - and been of great use in - my marriage! ("When you don't want to admit you made a mistake and apologize, that's when you should." Wow, that's made my life so much better...)

daniel

jim gossage

02-03-2013, 9:03 AM

No, I wasn't using the blade guard, but I was using my riving knife. My blade guard does have two sets of pawls on each side (small ones and large ones)... but as a few others have said, the blade tilting toward the fence plus the very small work piece was a recipe for disaster. When the piece kicked back, it hadn't even reached the riving knife yet. The splitter and riving knife couldn't do anything to prevent this particular accident.

Glad to see that you’re well. Your post was a great lesson to me. I am pretty safe in general but after reading all the posts, I recall a time or two when I was in the danger zone. I have always heard that cutting with the blade tilted toward the fence is dangerous, but I’m having trouble visualizing how your kickback occurred. The back edge of your piece must have been caught by the rear part of the blade and kicked forward. Since the blade was tilted toward the fence, I would think that the top opening between the blade and fence would be smaller than your piece, and therefore the piece would have to kick straight back to exit it’s confined space, rather than upward. But it seems from your injury that the piece had a significant upward component of travel. I’m probably overthinking this, but can someone explain the trajectory? Peter, how were you guiding this piece along the fence, with a pushstick? And where were you pushing on the piece - close to the fence?

Don Morris

02-03-2013, 10:29 AM

Peter,

A momentary loss of concentration got my last 1/8" of my left middle finger. I also think I try to practice safe woodworking. I wear a half mask and ear protection, use the Gripper system, etc. I read every post like yours and posted my blunder months ago. They remind us that wwing can be dangerous and requires constant concentration. Hope you heal well and like me, renew your sense of "is this a safe procedure" every time you send a piece of wood forward. And if that inner sense says "NO". Stop and re-evaluate how to make it safe. Regardless of whether you're using a SS or cabinet saw or contractor saw or other wwing tool. Just real glad you didn't do more damage.