Kitchen knife sharpening

[John Coloccia]

Let me start by saying that freehand sharpening on a waterstone is out. I've never been great at sharpening knives. Chisels....I'm pretty good. Plane irons? Yes, sharp as the dickens. No problems. Knives? I stink, and I don't want to get good.

But I do want SHARP knives. I have some very nice kitchen knives. They've been razor sharp for as long as I can remember...all I've ever done is steel them. They need a good sharpening now, though, and I want them absolutely razor sharp...I won't be happy with pretty sharp, sorta sharp, sharp enough, etc. I want them SHARP, just as they were the first day I bought them.

What do I do? I don't really have a service that's convenient to me near Hartford, CT (at least not that I know of). I'll mail them out if I need to, but I'd hate to loose them for a week or more.

So first question: does anyone know of a sharpening service in my area that will sharpen knives? I'm willing to drive some, but I want world class sharpening.

Second Question: do any of the home sharpening tools work? I'm thinking of the electric sharpeners.

So what do I consider sharp? If I can take a piece of paper and push...not slice, but push, my knife through, that's good enough. I sharpened one by hand tonight and can almost do that, but I know it can be better.

What say you, SMC collective?

[Mike Henderson]

I did work the edge of my chef's knife on a stone to get the bevel angle down to something that will cut - most knives come with a very broad bevel. Once I got that done - it's a one time job - I use a leather honing wheel (powered) with green compound to keep them sharp.

But let me make a comment about kitchen knives. Many western kitchen knives (I'm mostly talking about chef's knives here) are too soft, maybe a Rockwell C rating of 50 to 52, so you have to hone them pretty often if you want really sharp knives. I used to hone about every two days.

Then I discovered Japanese chef's knives. They're hardened to maybe RC 60 to 62 and they hold an edge much longer. They're also narrower so the bevel angle is usually not so broad, which makes them cut better. They're also lighter so if you're doing a lot of cutting it's not as tiring.

Final comment - for regular knives, two will do: a chef's knife and a paring knife. That's about all I use. I do have multiple chef's knives and multiple paring knives, however.

Mike

[Joe Pfeifer]

Over sharpened kitchen knives don't cut well. They need to have a "tooth" to cut, especially if you are cutting things like tomatoes, peppers, and other soft, skinned fruits and vegetables. The bevel is also a different angle depending on what the knife is for, so I wouldn't recommend an automatic knife sharpener. I go up to a 1,000 grit waterstone and with daily use and using the steel, I go about a year between sharpenings.

[Mike Henderson]

Over sharpened kitchen knives don't cut well. They need to have a "tooth" to cut, especially if you are cutting things like tomatoes, peppers, and other soft, skinned fruits and vegetables. The bevel is also a different angle depending on what the knife is for, so I wouldn't recommend an automatic knife sharpener. I go up to a 1,000 grit waterstone and with daily use and using the steel, I go about a year between sharpenings.
A good sharp knife will cut through a tomato skin just fine. A poorly sharpened knife with serrations will also cut through the skin of a tomato but will go dull much faster than a really sharp knife. If you want a serrated knife, buy a serrated knife. If your knife is not serrated, sharpen it the same as a chisel - to as perfect an edge as you can do.

A knife with serrations in it, whether put there intentionally or by using a coarse sharpening material, saws through the food rather than cutting it. Once you try a properly sharpened knife - a knife with a proper (narrow) bevel and ground and honed smooth, you'll never go back to sawing your food.

Lots of people use a steel but I hone when the knife gets dull. All the steel does is straighten the edge, it does not sharpen it. And it works better on a soft knife.

Mike

[Bryan Morgan]

Theres some home hollow grinders that work pretty well. I have one of those ceramic rod deals that works well for quick touch up. Honestly, lately I've been using the steel sharpener that came with the knife set. Once you get the hang of it you can make your knives razor sharp. Sharp enough that a slight pull on the knife slices through 1" steaks like hot butter.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I'm not sure I get my knives quite as sharp as you want, but I use an Accusharp knife sharpener (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004VWKQ), and a steel, and get them sharp enough to drag through a sheet of paper.

Tangential: John, have you ever watched "America's Test Kitchen" on PBS? It's a cooking show that would appeal to engineering minds (actually, you can watch it on their website, too). They did a testing of knife sharpeners, and the Accusharp was recommended.

[Joe Angrisani]

I also have the Accusharp sharpener, and I've been happy with the results. I did find there's a small learning curve, and that the amount of pressure varies how fine the edge turns out. It's also important to keep the knife perfectly vertical for each stroke. But once you find the sweet spot (again, it's a small learning curve), the results are quite good.

I saw that Woodcraft sells the three types of Accusharp sharpeners when I was at the store last week. Should help you, John. :)

[Dave Gaul]

John, have you considered the knife sharpener attachment for your WorkSharp 3000? I know you have one because I remember your review.

I have it for mine, and I have sharpened many knives with it with much success. I've used it on my pocket knives, as well as many kitchen knives. I sharpened a ton of good kitchen knives for a friend, and she said they were sharper than when she bought them (most of them were from pampered chef, I said good, not the best!).

I have a really good chef's knife (Knuckle sandwhich), but I have yet to try to sharpen because it still cuts like a hot knife through butter!

[Jay Maiers]

Since you didn't give us your budget, I'll throw in this company:
http://www.edgeproinc.com/
I don't own one of these yet, but I intend to...
I've read a lot of good things about their product(s). They're sort of like a Lansky sharpening setup on steroids.

[Ben Hatcher]

I also use the knife sharpener from my WorkSharp 3000 and find it to work very well. With that and your stropping wheel, I have no doubt that you'll be able to get the edge you want.

I slightly disagree with Mike on needing only two knives. I think that a serrated bread knife is also a must unless you don't eat crusty bread or like it smashed.

[Greg Peterson]

Our farmers market has a guy that sharpens knives. You might check your farmers market. You can also check with any local high end or kitchen specialty retail to see who they recommend for sharpening.

[Mike Davis NC]

I use a 1 x 30 Delta belt sander, but any of the 1 x 30 belt sanders will do. I had a Grizzly that burned up after 5 years and just happened to find a Delta at a pawn shop. I find the best tools in the worst places. Grizzly, Harbor Freight and just about any sander will do for knives, it is light work.

Trugrit.com has 3-M gator belts in 220 up to 2000 grit. I use 320, 600 and 1200. I do all my knives about twice a year, takes 30 minutes or so. Do all on each belt then change to the next finer one.



001x30:130-600-A30CF
1x30-600 A30CF Trizact “Gator” Aluminum Oxide
$3.05
3M

[Matt Meiser]

We bought the dedicated Worksharp sharpener which was almost the same price as buying the attachment. I was happy with the results, but a chef may disagree.

[David Weaver]

a 1200 trizact belt on a belt grinder and a leather belt to follow it up, either that or just a loaded old razor strop that's too punky to use on razors any longer.

I usually steel the knives if I do any of the cooking (wife does most of it) or if I wash dishes and there are knives coming out, so they don't see the belt too often unless either the bevel is out of whack or they've gotten nicked.

[Mike Henderson]

I slightly disagree with Mike on needing only two knives. I think that a serrated bread knife is also a must unless you don't eat crusty bread or like it smashed.I agree with you. I didn't want to get into a long discussion of knives so I specified "regular knives". But a serrated bread knife is the third necessary knife in the kitchen. That one can be a cheap knife. When it gets dull, throw it away and buy a new one.

Mike

[Myk Rian]

Ask a local butcher shop if they use someone to do theirs.

I use a ceramic thermowell to do mine. About 5/8" dia. A super smooth edge is not as good as a rough one.

[Dennis Peacock]

I use my Tormek for sharpening everything....kitchen knives, chisels, plane irons, scissors, jointer knives.....etc.
I can sharpen every chisel, knife, and pair of scissors we own in less that 2 hours.

[John Pratt]

+1 on the Tormek. I use it for everything The jigs make it idiot proof (a good thing for me).

[Bill Huber]

I got the Worksharp knife sharpener and I am really happy with it, this is the stand alone, not the attachment.
It does take a little bit to get used to it but once you do it really works well.

http://www.worksharptools.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=90

[Ben Hatcher]

Ask the manager of any local sushi restaurant who does their knives. I'd bet whoever they use would be able to meet your standards.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I was not happy with how well I did (or did not do) using my Tormek with my knives. Very happy with how well they turned out off my water stones, however. For what ever reason, it was a piece of cake for me to use the stones.

[Peter Froh]

I've never used it but a friend says it works great.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32992&cat=1,43072,43079

[John Lohmann]

I have 2 a Gatco set & Lansky, both have 5 different stones & a holder to maintain the proper angle, I can't free hand sharpen. These both work well on kitchen & pocket knives.

[Dave Gaul]

I've never used it but a friend says it works great.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=32992&cat=1,43072,43079

I have that set too. I tried it on a couple of my knives, and I don't like it too much. It's not very stable for larger knives, and I wasn't able to get a great edge with it, but that may have been a lack of patience on my part!

[Gordon Eyre]

Edge Pro sharpeners are super albeit a bit pricey. Since buying this device I have no problem keeping a world class edge on my kitchen knives. I buy good knives and keep them sharp with Edge Pro every few months or so. In between a ceramic rod is all that it needed and it comes with your Edge Pro. I have tried a bunch of other sharpeners and none of them come close to the Edge Pro in my opinion. I just wish I had bought one years ago. They have a good video that shows you how the sharpening is done. After watching the video I learned quickly and have had no problems since.

[Myk Rian]

This also works well for me. It's been in the family since the 50s or so. You can find them on E-bay at times.

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad222/MykRian/misc/0228011543.jpg

[Mike Henderson]

A super smooth edge is not as good as a rough one.
When you have a non-smooth edge on your knife, either because you bought a serrated knife or you used a coarse sharpening device, what you're doing is sawing through your food, rather than cutting it. Once you use a properly sharpened knife, including reducing the bevel angle and honing the edge smooth, you'll never want to saw your food again. This is especially true for meat - a properly sharpened knife just slides through meat (or fish), either raw or cooked. Also true for vegetables.

Mike

[John Hemenway]

America's Test Kitchen likes the Chef's Choice 130 for a powered sharpener and the Accusharp for a more manual approach. I've used both and they work well. About $145 difference in price!

The CC reminds me of a dedicated WorkSharp.

[John Coloccia]

Well, I've started fooling around with the Accusharp. I'm not sure if I like it yet. I feel as though my knives can get sharper than that. I'll play with it for a week or so before tossing in the towel and moving on to a different suggestion.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I've always used ceramic stones for sharpening kitchen knives. We have about 20 of them accumulated over the years. I usually spend about 1/2 hour and I can sharpen all of them. I have some spyderco stones and two from Wayne Barton. (of chip carving fame). Wayne's are best. Very fast and mirror smooth sharp knives.BTW I'm still using the same grohman's bread knife. (pictou NS Canada. ) for 30 years of daily use. Hard to imagine throwing it out. Never sharpened once.

[Michael Mills]

But a serrated bread knife is the third necessary knife in the kitchen. Mike

I disagree. We have a serrated knife but all of our bread comes pre-sliced.:D:D

I use my Cratex wheel in the shop to sharpen the knives (yep, the same one I use for my bench/turning tools. Less than three minutes and they are honed and ready (except for a couple of more minutes for stopping to remove the wire edge).

[Myk Rian]

A coarser edged knife works best for things like tomatoes and meat.
It cuts through the skin better, and breaks the fibers.

[Mike Henderson]

A coarser edged knife works best for things like tomatoes and meat.
It cuts through the skin better, and breaks the fibers.
Try a properly sharpened knife. You'll be surprised.

Mike

[Bill Huber]

A coarser edged knife works best for things like tomatoes and meat.
It cuts through the skin better, and breaks the fibers.

Try a good ceramic knife, I have had one for a year or two and it will slice a tomato paper thin.

[Myk Rian]

Try a properly sharpened knife. You'll be surprised.

Mike
I have sharp knives, thank you.

[John Coloccia]

I have to say that the sharpest knives I've had cut through meat and tomatoes better than anything else IMHO. I'm starting to get the touch for the Accusharp and I'm really starting to like it. My chef's knife is now VERY sharp and I'm able to slice anything I want with ease. My thinner knives are even better. I'm think I'll stick with the Accusharp for a while.

[Russ Filtz]

I frequent a cutlery forum and the ONLY thing other than stones they seem to recommend is the EdgePro. Pretty much nothing that has an electric plug, other than a grinder (for damage or angle correction), should be used on a good knife. Most of them abhor even using a sharpening "steel" as they are really only for straightening the edge, not sharpening. They are mostly for show (or for chefs that don't now better) You can get ceramic "steels" that will actually take metal off, but you can ruin an edge faster than not.

http://www.foodieforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?6-Fred-s-Cutlery-Forum

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/edgepro.html

[Joe Angrisani]

I have to say that the sharpest knives I've had cut through meat and tomatoes better than anything else IMHO. I'm starting to get the touch for the Accusharp and I'm really starting to like it. My chef's knife is now VERY sharp and I'm able to slice anything I want with ease. My thinner knives are even better. I'm think I'll stick with the Accusharp for a while.

Told you it had a little learning curve. I'd guess your edges will get even better over the next few "sessions". It's a very functional little widget.

[Mike Cozad]

For my Japanese Santoku and chef knives I use the Wustof sharpener in the link below. I have a bit older version but it gets my knives scary sharp.http://www.wusthof.com/desktopdefault.aspx/52_view-117/categories-117/tabid-114/407_read-4947/categories-210

[Russ Filtz]

For my Japanese Santoku and chef knives I use the Wustof sharpener in the link below. I have a bit older version but it gets my knives scary sharp.http://www.wusthof.com/desktopdefault.aspx/52_view-117/categories-117/tabid-114/407_read-4947/categories-210

Are you aware that most J-knives are sharpened at a different angle than French or German knives? J-knives tend to be lighter/thinner, harder steel, AND sharpened at a steeper angle. The thinness and sharp angle contribute to their (some feel) superior cutting performance. By using a German made sharpening tool you're not getting the most benefit from the knife. It will still perform fine, just not at it's best.

[Marty Paulus]

This is what I use: http://www.amazon.com/Chefs-Choice-Professional-Sharpening-Station/dp/B000CSG9BE/ref=sr_1_5?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1312288810&sr=1-5 What I like is the stropping wheel. I have Henckel's brand knives and this seems to work well. I have only used the first wheel when someone brought me their knives to sharpen after they have tried mine. I usually only use the stropping wheel or a sharpening steel to touch up the edge.

I have to agree with Mike on the difference a truely sharp knife makes. The wife will now let me know if the edge on any of the knifes gets even the slightest dull and needs to be touched up.

[Kim Malmberg]

Hello fellow forumites. Being very new with woodworking and still learning so much about everything that regards tools and how to use them properly, I can't help myself from chuckling. Reason is, most of you know how to make a chisel or plane iron scary sharp, and that using only sandpaper or stones or both. And most of us would agree that the older the hand tool, the better. Still a lot of you are discussing whether or not to buy a sharpening service or a knife sharpener. Well, I can only say this. Kitchen knives are the reason I got really interested in woodworking. Why? Because I learned to sharpen a kitchen knife before I now anything about how a bevel works on a plane iron or a chisel or how to sharpen a saw. And that made me want to be surrounded by sharp stuff. I've done scissors, garden shears, lawn mower blades, scythe blades, axes and so on. Point being, if you want to make a knife sharp, use a good high quality knife, preferably made of carbon steel, use a good oil stone or waterstone and just do it. I spend a minute a week sharpening my kitchen knives. The only real trick about kitchen knives is that you need to do it regularly and to hold the knife as low against the stone as possible. Just have a look at those Japanese chefs honing their knives. Youtube has a few of them. The way they work their knives, they're almost lying flat on the stone. Yes, of course various types of knives demand various types of action, but all in all, I don't find this to be harder than sharpening severly dull or nicked plane irons. And of course, always, always, keep the knives separated from other stuff. Never throw them in the dish washer and rinse them and dry them after every use, especially if they happen to be the older kind of knives, which will rust or discolour unless tended to. As far as what kind of a knife you need, I have no idea, but I think someone else said it well. Avid knives that are too thick, they'll never cut anything well unless ground down, which probably won't work anyway because of the softness of modern steel.SO I think Japanese or French chef's knives will make you happy as both types have on thing in common, they've got thin edges.

[Mike Henderson]

Kim, above, brings up the question of the type of steel in the knife. He recommends carbon steel. I agree that a knife should have a relatively high carbon content but I also like stainless. The problem with plain carbon steel is that it requires careful maintenance. If you don't wipe it DRY after use, rust will form on the edge, causing a rough edge, and you'll lose the good, smooth edge that you worked hard to put on the knife. Plain carbon steel is also more susceptible to food acids which can also erode an edge.

On the positive side, plain carbon steel is easy to sharpen and will take a keen edge.

There are good high carbon stainless steels and I would recommend those over a knife of plain carbon steel, unless you're willing to be very careful in your knife maintenance.

I agree with his comments on sharpening and on the need to have a more acute bevel angle on the knife. Knives with low carbon steel, either plain carbon steel or stainless steel, may be too soft to hold an edge with an acute bevel angle (the edge will roll over) so make sure your knife is hardened to a high Rockwell C rating (58 to 62 is good).

I also agree with his comments on handling and storing. I use a knife block but other techniques are good. Just don't throw them in a drawer without protection.

Mike

[Russ Filtz]

Those talking about a knife needing some "tooth" to cut, or serrated being better on breads, obviously have never used a truly SHARP, well made knife. Even with crusty bread, a really sharp Japanese chef's (gyuto) will run circles around a serrated edge. It is tough on the edge though, and I do admit to using a serrated edge at times when my gyuto is not at its sharpest.

[Zach England]

I use this on my western knives:
http://www.leevalley.com/US/garden/page.aspx?p=60002&cat=2,40733,40738&ap=1

I use my belt grinder on my japanese knives.

[glenn bradley]

Lansky - cheap and idiot-proof. No really; even I can use it so it has to be usable by those who totally lack the sharpening gene. I use my Worksharp for almost everything else and love it. I have a few stones and a scary sharp setup for those items that do not work with the WS3K. Someone on one of the forums mentioned the Lansky and for about $35 the LANLKCLX Deluxe Knife Sharpening System Kit has earned its keep after only a short while. Just my (sharpening klutz) experience.

[Russ Filtz]

I use my belt grinder on my japanese knives.

A joke I assume? :D

When using a belt grinder on knives, should be reserved for major metal removal to correct angles or chips, broken tips, etc. You need to be very careful though as you can de-temper the steel and make it soft.

[Joel Goodman]

I used to use only carbon steel knives but now often use stainless as well. I know you don't want to free hand but I recommend a fine (600)/very fine (1200) DMT duo with the holder. A few swipes on each grit and you're good to go. I've tried going finer with waterstones but usually don't. I would be cautious about the sharpening guys at the farmer's market. There's a guy here who thinks rough grinding is sharpening.

[Russ Filtz]

Each knife steel is different, nut in general terms;

carbon steel knives can obtain a sharper edge, are a tad softer, so the edge doesn't last as long, but are WAY easier to sharpen.

SS holds the edge longer, but doesn't get quite as sharp to begin with, and is a PITA to sharpen.

Carbon steel (at least until it gets a patina formed) can cause smells with certain foods. This is one reason why clad knives are popular with CS cores clad with SS. Only the actual cutting edge of CS is exposed. You can also "force" a patina to speed the process and not worry about smells.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlnyjpEs32I

The video shows one doing a pattern, but you don't have to use a pattern. Also pretty much any acidic food can be used, not just mustard.

[Ben Rivenbark]

I have an Edge Pro system, and it's fantastic. Great Sharp edges, but I hardly ever use it. I have three worksharps, but hate the way a knife feels on them. I have a 1x30 belt sander, but it's more than needed in most situations (but when did that ever stop us, right?) I have Shapton glass stones from 220 to 16000, and I am very proficient at hand sharpening, but hands down the easiest way to get an extremely sharp edge for the novice knife sharpener is going to be the convex edge. A piece of leather, some wet/dry papers from low up to 2500, then stropping on leather with chromium oxide. Want a very cheap pure chromium oxide that is WAAAAY better than what you find at woodcraft or Lee Valley? Go with your wife to A.C. Moore or whatever other craft store and find the oil paints. NOT ACRYLIC. Wilton has a color that is aptly called "Chromium oxide Green". It's nothing but chromium oxide mixed in linseed oil, which is perfect for leather strops.

Now google the videos on knivesshipfree.com or the Bark River Knife and Tool convex sharpening method.

It's easy, fast, and can yield a fantastic edge. If you don't want to wait to go get the chromium oxide, just use Mothers aluminum polish from the same auto parts store where you get your wet/dry sandpaper. It has extremely fine aluminum oxide in it and works fantastically for sharp knives.

Oh, and a sharp smooth polished edge doesn't work as well on tomatoes? hasn't ever used a sharp smooth polished edge on quality steel. Most typical knives like you'll buy in many retail stores aren't made from quality enough steel to benefit from sharpening past 2000 grit or so (JIS), but something like a Hiromoto AS or even a quality french Sabatier knife can benefit from going as high as 8000 or 16000 grit and followed with a very light stropping on chromium oxide. The knife can be maintained at this level of sharpness for a decent while with just the chromium oxide strop.

For less than 10 bucks, you can have the sharpest knives on the block and it only takes a few minutes per knife.

[John Lohmann]

This is one of the most complete web sites on sharpening I have every seen. It is very detailed, shows many sharpening systems, Tormeks etc. Search for Steve Bottorff knife sharpening. It should show you many ways to sharpen any knife