Beginning a drying process

[Roger Chandler]

Okay, I have roughed out a bowl from the 350+ year old Stonewall Jackson Prayer tree. Approx. 9 inches wide and 4.5 inches + deep. The wood had some burl figure in it and has an area where a small branch once came off it [located on the side of the bowl]

I put it in DNA and it soaked for a full day.........I have taken it out this morning and wrapped it in light weight brown paper [came as packing in a box] and the opening side of the bowl, I have one layer and put a hole in it to facilitate the drying from the inside. the outside of the bowl has 2 layers as the paper is folded toward the tenon.

I then put the whole thing in another brown bag 25#, and stapled it shut with 3 staples. I weighed the bowl and all [2lbs. -9.5 oz] My plan is to weigh it every day until it stops losing weight. I had to stabilize the wood with CA glue as some areas were a bit punky, especially toward the rim, but feel like I got it pretty well. After the glue dried good, turned away a little to reveal a freshly turned surface.

I hope the DNA did not break down the glue, but we will see..........

Now my question.............did I do this correctly? The only other thing I could have done is put some anchor seal on it, but I do not have an unlimited time frame to complete this bowl........maybe 2 or 3 weeks. I have brought the thing inside the house where the temp is pretty constant at about 73-75 degrees, so as to avoid the high temps in my shop when it gets hot during the day.

This bowl is going to go into a sample box of items to be presented to the venues about the kinds of things we can make out of the Jackson Prayer tree wood. I also am going to make some bottle stoppers from the wood that has developed cracks already...........other things as well......we have several turners working on the items for the sample box, and will hopefully be able to show a number of different kinds of items they can sell for the foundations that preserve the battlefields and the Jackson house museum, etc.

[Sean Hughto]

I would have made a bowl for the example out of some other wood, and applied anchor seal to this one so that you could dry it very slowly and thoroughly over at least 6 months.

One thing I have done when turning greenwood to finished in one go, is to check in the bag every day or so, and apply water thin cyanoacrylate (SP?) - super glue - to any check that begin to form. That has worked very well. I also sand the glued area right away as the extra glue sands away easily when first cured, but is much harder if it really sets up for a day or more.

[Roger Chandler]

Sean,

Some of the wood on this tree was green, some was dead [parts of the tree stood in a dead state for years] a huge tree, 9 ft x 7 + feet at the bottom......this bowl came from an upper section off a large limb. I don't know if that makes any difference in drying times, but the wood from this tree is white oak, and with the heat of this summer, we are experiencing some cracking, even though we have it shaded and some covered with tarps underneath a shaded area. Time is important to get this project going and we are working to try to minimize the cracking and will use the cracked pieces to cut into pen blanks and other small items where the wood can be stable.

I think I will check inside for cracks as this one dries per your suggestion.......I can certainly fill with CA and sawdust from the white oak as well.

Dale Winburn and a couple other turners are working on some drying techniques as well........Dale is going to boil some of his roughouts..........he has gotten good success with that process before.

[Scott Hackler]

Roger, I think the stapled bag is likely overkill, but it really wont hurt anything. Just delay the dying process a bit. I use 3 layers of newpaper, poke several holes in the opening, sit it open side down and put it on a shelf. 3-4 later its dry and ready to re-turning.

As far as the CA on the cracks. Well opening the bags and paper repeatedly will change the process that your attempting to use as the air will dry out the bowl. The micro climate inside the paper/bag is very humid and slows down the drying (which is what we are after). I don't know if I would just deal with any cracks after its dry. CA doesn't stick real good to wet wood anyway. If you end up with substantial cracks, some epoxy and coffe grounds or sawdust will fix that real quick.

[Sean Hughto]

I don't know if I would just deal with any cracks after its dry. CA doesn't stick real good to wet wood anyway.

As far as waiting until it's completely dry, the reason to address them as they form is that the glue almost always stops the crack's growth. If you can arrest the cracks propagation at a hairline, it's better in my book than waiting for an 1/8th inch crevice that threatens the overall structural integrity more and is much more obvious when fixed.

Moisture helps CA cure. I've never had any problem with wood at 30% as opposed to 8% accepting and holding the glue. The stuff was originally intended as a liquid suture for wounds as I understand it. I'm sure it might not like a dripping wet piece, but it doesn't seem to mind some moisture. But perhaps i don't understand what you mean. What has been your experience with "wet wood" and CA?

[Scott Hackler]

Sean,

I stand corrected. I had it in my head that the only glue that water helped was polyurethane glue. Guess you learn something everyday. I never used CA on wet wood, because I had thought it wouldn't stick well. Of course I will chuck a blank if it has checking or a big ole crack, so my experience is with filling knots and voids.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Roger,
People may shy away from suggestions since the wood has historical value but I am too dumb to be afraid. You should probably be OK with the bowl in a paper bag, especially since you soaked it in DNA. My problem with the paper bag is the potential for mildew. I put untreated rough outs on a wooden slats on the floor of my shop storage area which I keep dehumidified. Despite the fact they are not directly on the cement floor, I still have to be careful they don't mildew in the bag. I also put DNA soaked bowls in paper but start them drying in an upper area of the rack where the air is warmer and less damp since they are no where near the cement floor. I've had no problem with them cracking during the balance of the drying process.
I believe the Anchor Seal method may be a more conservative approach and certainly works but I also believe in the DNA process. You're going to be OK.
faust

[Roger Chandler]

I've had no problem with them cracking during the balance of the drying process.
I believe the Anchor Seal method may be a more conservative approach and certainly works but I also believe in the DNA process. You're going to be OK. faust

Thanks Faust..........I appreciate you telling about your experience with the DNA drying..........I don't intend to let this mildew, unless it does it in only a couple of weeks or so?

[Roger Chandler]

interesting to me............as of now, just a day and a half later [36 hrs.] when I weighed this bowl which started out at 2lb-9.5 oz. it now weighs 4.5 oz less............[2 lb-5.0 oz]

Is that a pretty much normal rate of weight loss - evaporation rate? What do you suppose it will weigh.........say in 2 full weeks? Any educated guesses? This is my first time weighing a rough-out.........just got my scale recently..........I am not sure what to expect, so anyone who understands this more than me, I welcome your input.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Roger you should be ok with the DNA. I have quit using it and use anchorseal on the whole roughed out blank. Yes it does take longer to dry but have not had on crack yet in the 50 bowls I have roughed. Started this after watching a demo and talking with Mike Mahoney. As far as weight goes I have found the first few days they lose the most weight and then it will slow.

[Roger Chandler]

As far as weight goes I have found the first few days they lose the most weight and then it will slow.

Thanks Bernie..........my thinking was along this line as well.......I felt like it would have the most rapid evaporation at first.....I hope I can get this done in 2 or 3 weeks........this particular piece of wood was not totally wet [green].......it had some punky-ness in it and needed stabilization with CA glue.....I am thinking that it might become stable in the time frame I am looking at.......at least I hope so.

[Scott T Smith]

Roger, I can't speak to turning blanks, but in general the maximum safe daily drying rate for 1" thick oak is 3.5% moisture content loss per day. If you're at 3/4" thick, you can probably increase that to 4.5%.

Approximately 40% of the weight of green oak is water. So, to determine your maximum safe drying weight, calculate as follows.

Let's say that your blank weighs 10 lbs. Of that 10 lbs about 4 lbs is water. 3.5% (daily drying targeted rate) of 4 lbs is .14 lb, so that is the targeted daily weight loss.

Oak is difficult to dry w/o cracking. The most critical time is from green down to 25% MC.

[charlie knighton]

Roger,

you are dealing with oak, good luck if you are trying to dry it fast, enjoy your project

i never try to turn oak blanks until it has been 4 months in cardboard barrel, does not rust your lathe or tools either that way, no achorseal or dna, some blanks crack, they go in woodpile, usually 90% of blanks ok to turn, i usually turn the oak endgrain

i usually wear those blue gloves with oak, the least little cut on your hand and you will have the start of infection, clean it and neosporin it

[Roger Chandler]

Thanks Scott, and Charlie for the info............I was not aware that oak could cause infection, Charlie.........good idea on the gloves.......

Scott, that is a pretty good formula you have there on drying.........I am not sure I will be that precise in my calculations or measurements..........I just kinda do what I can and see if it works, but I will keep what you have said in mind!