Skipping the white diamond - what instead?

[Aaron Buys]

I'm getting ready to use my Beall system for the first time today. The piece is walnut so I'm planning on skipping the white diamond per suggestions here. Question: If I skip the white diamond, what is the recommended step between the Tripoli and the Carnuba? Do I need to clean the wood with a soft cloth between compounds or just go right to the wax?

Thanks!

[Dan Hintz]

I have not read anything on skipping the white diamond for walnut... care to share the reason why, or pointing out the thread that mentions it?

[Dick Wilson]

Dan, I have had instances where the white diamond leaves a white residue in the walnut pores. You can't get it out with the next wax. It leaves a white haze. The only way I could get rid of it was sand. I usually buff well with the Tripoli and go straight to the Carnuba.

[Mike Null]

You might try burnishing with shavings.

I agree with Dick's comment about the residue.

[Aaron Buys]

I have not read anything on skipping the white diamond for walnut... care to share the reason why, or pointing out the thread that mentions it?


Apparently the white diamond fills the pores of more porous/opened grained woods like walnut and shows on the final piece.

Below are just a few of the threads mentioning it and I believe Bill Grumbine touches on it in his bowl turning video. From what I've read you can avoid it if you use a sealer first but I don't have any =(.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?93630-Diamond-Dust&

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?79553-Beaul-Or-Buffer&

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?121120-Beall-Buffing-system&

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?161320-Pecan-NE-Bowl&

[Jeff Nicol]

Dan, The reason for skipping the white diamond is that it can fill in any pores or open grain and leave the white residue. If the finish is applied over a grain filler you may get away without any issues. I have found that if you have sanded the black walnut and have gotten all the large sanding lines out down to 320 or 400 and maybe even did a wet sand with 600 grit the oil finsh will buff out nicely with just tripoli. There are finer grits of polishing compounds that are green and blue that may not show up as much, and if you are wax buffing that may get rid of any light patches. But better to safe than sorry I guess.

Jeff

[Josh Bowman]

Aaron,
The Tripoli will actually shine the piece up very well, if it's been sanded out properly.

[Mike Null]

Be prepared for your buffs to throw lint at you for a good while.:)

[John Keeton]

Vince Welch has some polishing buffs that might work for you depending on the sheen you are after. You can use them without compound and they produce a nice, buffed finish. Here is the link - http://www.vinceswoodnwonders.com/Scuff%20Brite%20and%20Polishing%20Buffs%20and%20Pa ds.htm

[Dan Hintz]

Good to know... my Beall system just came in yesterday.

[Mike Null]

Dan

I forgot what instructions came with the Beall but be forewarned those buffs can grab the work right out of your hand and throw it in who knows what direction. Tread lightly.

I love mine but they take a little getting used to.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I do agree with the rest. White diamond will leave a white residue in the pores of most open grain woods. It is hard to remedy after it is done. I also don't use the carnuba was anymore as it leaves finger prints on the piece when handled and if it gets water on it then you have spots. Use strictly Ren Wax.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Dan

I forgot what instructions came with the Beall but be forewarned those buffs can grab the work right out of your hand and throw it in who knows what direction.


Actually, the direction is fairly constant. It's always down and away, then under the dust collector. :eek:

I skip the W.D. fairly often since we have a lot of those open grained woods here. I have a cheapo buff that I use to get the Trip off the bowl before using teh Beal wax buff. Don't know if that helps, but since the Beal wax buff is much better than the cheapo buff, I figure it can't hurt to skip contaminating the buff.

[Jim Underwood]

Just curious....
If you're buffing aren't you going for a really shiny finish?

If so, wouldn't the point of it be to get enough finish on to leave no pores open so you can buff to a glass like finish?

I'm not criticizing, just wondering "out loud"....

[Tim Thiebaut]

Be prepared for your buffs to throw lint at you for a good while.:)

Mike touchs on something you will all deal with in your new buffs...I had a heck of a time "seasoning" mine....what was suggested to me here...I think it was either Roger or Curt but I dont remember...sorry guys, they suggested useing like 80 grit sandpaper on the buffs when new, and even once you have had them for a while use this same metheod to clean them from time to time. I got a piece of "1 1/2x"1 1/2 x"12 and stabled 80 grit around one end and use this to clean and season my wheels now, really helps to keep all of the fuzz down, and to keep them clean.

[Dan Hintz]

Some good tips coming out of this thread...

[Walter Mooney]

I've found that the secret is to touch the piece to the various wheels as lightly as possible. This minimizes/avoids heat build-up (which can ruin your finish (don't ask me how I know that)) and it helps to keep the wheel from grabbing the piece.

[Richard Jones]

Just curious....
If you're buffing aren't you going for a really shiny finish?

If so, wouldn't the point of it be to get enough finish on to leave no pores open so you can buff to a glass like finish?

I'm not criticizing, just wondering "out loud"....

No, I don't like shiny as a rule. I buff to get rid of any fuzzies left by applying the finish. I buff until it's smooth, then apply ren-wax and buff that off.

High gloss as the end result also depends upon the type of finish. Normally, high gloss isn't achieved with just an oil finish, like the walnut oil that I use, or DO, but with lacquer WOP or something equivalent. If you want high gloss, buffing in and of itself won't do it.

Hope this helps.

My $.02, as always,

Rich

[Jerry Rhoads]

I do what Tim says about seasoning

[Michelle Rich]

you CAN get a very shiny finish on wood if you sand to 5-600 grit, use danish oil (well dried) and then buff with the beall. It's gosh darn amazing how soft & wonderful such a shiny finish feels

[Richard Jones]

you CAN get a very shiny finish on wood if you sand to 5-600 grit, use danish oil (well dried) and then buff with the beall. It's gosh darn amazing how soft & wonderful such a shiny finish feels

Michele,

I don't think shiny and high gloss are the same. Agreed that you can do shiny with oils, heck, with about anything. When I say high gloss I mean one of those finishes that appears to be 1/2" thick. I guess I should clarify my definitions...............:)

R

[Jake Helmboldt]

Richerd's response covered it. You can buff to get a nice satin or high gloss finish. I buff to get a nice smooth finish regardless of the degree of gloss. It removes nubs and haze and gives a nice feel. I rarely use a wax on the buffs.

[Bill Bulloch]

If you use White Diamond on bare Walnut it will leave the residue in the open pours. But after you properly seal and finish the Walnut piece it is safe to use White Diamond. I do it all the time on finished Walnut. I would hesitate, though, if there were open cracks or pours.

[robert baccus]

Dan, if you have not tried it, buffing alone with no finish--just tripole and carnubawax gives a fantastic finish on very hard woods. walnut is about as soft as you can go. on the tropical hwds especially they can be treated just like metal and most look better with no finish--just carnuba. soft wax is not a problem if you use thin coats only. you can buff up satin or high gloss in this manner.------------------old forester