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Ross lagden
07-26-2011, 5:47 AM
Hi I am new here,

I wondered if any of you have had any experience with a Chinese made 50W YAG laser engraving into stainless steel. I have found a company and watched a video of them using the machine and it looks really good and exactly what I need.

Has anyone else got one of these from China?

Thanks

Ross

Rodne Gold
07-26-2011, 6:01 AM
I saw one operate in China when i was at the shenui laser factory , a YAG and a fibre one , looked good. 50w Yag was $10k , the fibre was about $25k. The fibre held a slightly finer mark and was a little quicker.

Ross lagden
07-26-2011, 6:34 AM
I saw one operate in China when i was at the shenui laser factory , a YAG and a fibre one , looked good. 50w Yag was $10k , the fibre was about $25k. The fibre held a slightly finer mark and was a little quicker.

Yeah thats what I am looking at, one for 10K, I actually came across it from a link you had posted in another thread. Did you happen to see what software they were running it from?

Thanks

Rodne Gold
07-26-2011, 6:37 AM
If I remember correctly , It wasnt the same software that my scanning lasers use , it was something else,but Im not sure of exactly what it was..best to ask them.

Ross lagden
07-26-2011, 6:51 AM
If I remember correctly , It wasnt the same software that my scanning lasers use , it was something else,but Im not sure of exactly what it was..best to ask them.

They say it can run off CorelDraw, Ai, Photoshop etc.

Dan Hintz
07-26-2011, 7:52 AM
They say it can run off CorelDraw, Ai, Photoshop etc.
With a plug-in file converter... it's not native, so be aware. I believe they translate files into an AI format first, then send it.

Rodne Gold
07-26-2011, 8:16 AM
Cad package for lasers called Ezcad , I looked at the manual a while ago (cant remember the name of the package) but it looked ok.
google it , there is some info on it.

Rangarajan Saravana kumar
07-28-2011, 12:56 AM
I am looking for info on chinese yag laser engraver 50w. They quote me for 11k for 50w yag as well 600usd for Rotary unit extra.

any body advise us about the spares we need to stock...

I have a myth that fibre gives good marking details but fails in depth, but diode pump gives more depth any ideas?

Like Lens, Rotary tips etc

Regards,
Saravanakumar

Rodne Gold
07-28-2011, 1:19 AM
I would look into the rotary as I dont think it works the same as our type rotarys , i do not think you can wrap a single image around a round object, i think you can turn an object , engrave something , turn it some more , engrave another thing etc etc.
Lenses will change the marking field , select the one you want based on how small a spot size you want and what size you need to mark. I would rather spend on a different/extra lens than a rotary.
As to spares , best to ask the mnfgrs what they recommend as I dont know much about YAGs , maybe others here can comment
I was sent some items I wanted for my laser in 3-4 days , from China to Cape Town south africa , so at the worst it might be a few days before you get stuff if you need.

Dan Hintz
07-28-2011, 7:15 AM
I have a myth that fibre gives good marking details but fails in depth, but diode pump gives more depth any ideas?
Depth will solely be a function of power and wavelength. Level of detail will be a function of wavelength and optics design/quality.

The wavelength between the two systems will be practically the same, so remove that from the equation.

Rodne Gold
07-28-2011, 8:06 AM
Here's an article /FAQ re fibre lasers , it gives the difference/advantages tween a fibre and a yag.
http://www.rmilaseruk.com/?faq-about-fiber-laser,22
Have a look at this article too , it also has a good explanation
http://www.engraversjournal.com/article.php/2743/index.html

Ross lagden
07-29-2011, 1:32 PM
Hello,

Thanks for all your help.

Rodne, could you tell me, the metal that I will be marking is mirror finish stainless steel, Will this reflect and damage the laser? If so, what can i do to prevent this?

Thanks

Rodne Gold
07-29-2011, 2:10 PM
I don't think it will refect at all badly , as far as I know , if you have enough power the beams energy is absorbed by the metal and the marked portion is not reflective at all , co2 might reflect cos its wavelength is different and it is not readily absorbed by metals. In my opinion you would well to wear protective goggles if you choose not to enclose the marking area, but Im no expert on Yags so don't really know

Ross lagden
07-29-2011, 4:44 PM
I don't think it will refect at all badly , as far as I know , if you have enough power the beams energy is absorbed by the metal and the marked portion is not reflective at all , co2 might reflect cos its wavelength is different and it is not readily absorbed by metals. In my opinion you would well to wear protective goggles if you choose not to enclose the marking area, but Im no expert on Yags so don't really know

Ok, thanks for all your help!

Rangarajan Saravana kumar
07-30-2011, 5:37 AM
The Yag DPSS 50W will be having 10000hrs MTBF life. But after that gap say 3 yrs we need to change diode pump system. The flash pump laser 50w yag will require to change once in 700 hrs and there is no need to change system.
I was told by supplier. I Need a small clarification, that lesser the focal length, more the details and sharp.
Even 1 mm ht of the letters are possible ? Any ideas to have minimum letter ht of etching possible in YAG LASER..

Regards,
Saravanakumar

john kowalski2
08-15-2011, 3:40 PM
Ross,

Ive got a 75w dpss from china , and I dont think youre gonna have a problem with marking SS but I can check in few days. So far I had the machine for 3 weeks and I'm overally happy. the EzCAD software is a bit problematic when it comes to importing AI or PLT content but still doable :)

Thanks

Ross lagden
08-15-2011, 4:50 PM
Ross,

Ive got a 75w dpss from china , and I dont think youre gonna have a problem with marking SS but I can check in few days. So far I had the machine for 3 weeks and I'm overally happy. the EzCAD software is a bit problematic when it comes to importing AI or PLT content but still doable :)

Thanks

Hi John,

Thanks for your response, if you could test it on the thinnest stainless steel you could find and tell me the results that would be much appreciated. Whats the quality like with the marking?

Thanks

matthew knott
08-15-2011, 5:55 PM
Bit of mis-information on this thread, i will go through a few:
"Depth will solely be a function of power and wavelength. Level of detail will be a function of wavelength and optics design/quality.
The wavelength between the two systems will be practically the same, so remove that from the equation"
The wavelength of a fibre and are yag are almost the same but the wavelength only affects the absorption of the laser into materials, thats why yags wont touch material like wood and glass but co2 do, the peak power and power density are the main factors for deep engraving, our 30 watt fibre outperforms our 90 watt lamp pumped machine hands down, it hits peak power at 30khz a yag is about 5khz, this means we get high peak and average powers at the same time. Also the fibre has a smaller spot size so more power at the business end, but you do pay for the extra performance.
You WILL need protective glasses OD5 or more at the correct wavelength, these things can blind (if your very very unlucky)
Most fibre lasers have an anti reflection unit fitted, and also electronics to protect (not sure about the cheaper Chinese units) but you can damage them with
highly reflective material.
A shorter focal length lens will greatly reduce the spot size but also the working area, a 160mm lens is the most common size and it gives about 140mm circle engraving area, a 100mm lens will almost half the spot size and increase the power density but you will only have a 80mm working area.
Also with a yag or fibre you need more control over the software as there is alot more to 'play with' we often repeat some part of a mark at different powers and frequencies and fill parameters to get good results. We have a hans laser and the software is awful, we never use it because its so hard to use compared to our other machines. Also as for spares, these machines are alot more complicated than the xy co2 systems, parts will not be easily interchangeable and the electronics is complex for the galvos and rf and lamp/diode, so if it develops a problem it will probably need a visit by a trained engineer, if they have to come from china that is not going to be cheap.
A good used machine would cost about the same as a Chinese machine but you would have better support and software, also worth noting that some of these Chinese machines can be upgraded to US software such as prolase which is much better but will cost quite a bit.
I have 8 yag/fibre lasers and worked as a senior development engineer for 10 years so i know a quite a bit of these machines.
Matt

Dan Hintz
08-15-2011, 6:26 PM
Bit of mis-information on this thread, i will go through a few:
"Depth will solely be a function of power and wavelength. Level of detail will be a function of wavelength and optics design/quality.
The wavelength between the two systems will be practically the same, so remove that from the equation"

Where was the misinformation?

matthew knott
08-15-2011, 6:55 PM
"Depth will solely be a function of power and wavelength" this is not true, peak power and pulse width have a masive effect, this would mean a 5 watt laser with a very short pulse would out perform a 50 watt yag for depth, case in point a co2 has no peak power as its cw (in most engravers) but a 200 co2 will still not engrave metal, I see alot of peolple buy on raw wattage and they dont understand its not always whats needed. You are quite right about the wavelength not being in the equation!
No offence meant, sorry !!

Rangarajan Saravana kumar
08-16-2011, 1:42 AM
I am interested in gettting more info on your 75w Yag laser about its mfr, spares , cost , etc

Regards
Saravanakumar

Rodne Gold
08-16-2011, 2:35 AM
I was actually reading that the reflection off a C02 laser is far less dangerous re blinding you than any scatter off a YAG , added to that , the beam quality of the YAG is poor , the beam is like shotgun pellets rather than a spot or a ring. In reading , this seems to be the area where the fibre laser scored over a YAG. The $25k fibre I saw was a 20w ,whereas the $10K YAG was 50w , but both did the same job.
One thing I DID notice with both was that when engraving to get a nice black mark on a piece of Stainless , both seemed to heat distort the plate , it was about 1mm thick and you could distinctly see the engraving distortion from the back.
Having said that , the 1mm plate I used to demonstrate that my 80w C02 can engrave and mark SS without cerdec also demonstrated that.
There is actually very good info re different lasers and how they work on Sam's laser FAQ , have a look http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm

Dan Hintz
08-16-2011, 6:02 AM
"Depth will solely be a function of power and wavelength" this is not true, peak power and pulse width have a masive effect, this would mean a 5 watt laser with a very short pulse would out perform a 50 watt yag for depth, case in point a co2 has no peak power as its cw (in most engravers) but a 200 co2 will still not engrave metal, I see alot of peolple buy on raw wattage and they dont understand its not always whats needed. You are quite right about the wavelength not being in the equation!
No offence meant, sorry !!
You're assuming "power" solely means maximum CW power of the tube when reading that statement... the total power doesn't change, just the time interval in which it plows into the substrate (peak power and pulse width).

As far as wavelength, the substrate must absorb the power in the beam to remove material... if the wavelength is inappropriate to the substrate, less material will be removed. A CO2 laser will remove material from a copper substrate, but the absorption level is so small it takes getting into the kW range before the amount is enough to be usable. This is because the wavelength is not readily absorbed... but some is. A YAG/Fiber's wavelength is more readily absorbed by copper, so more of the beam's power is available to remove substrate.

So again, I'll say "Depth will solely be a function of power and wavelength"...

Don't worry, I'm not offended, I just didn't want people to think there was something incorrect about my original statement... but I will agree that people new to laser's purchase based upon a spec sheet (the advertised power), but that's no different than purchasing a car on the advertised max horsepower (if you're a car guy, you'll recognize the statement "It's the power under the curve that matters").

matthew knott
08-16-2011, 6:35 AM
It can be confusing for people who dont understand the physics (obvioulsy you do) and its normally the maximum cw power these lasers are sold at, if you where to take a power measurment from a yag laser say a 100 watt at the acutal settings you would use for deep engraving so lets say 100% POWER 5KHZ, the laser would be pulsing at 5khz with a 40nS pulse and only read about 15 watts on the power meter, so all your getting is 15 watts of power but its delivered in massive but short 25'000 watt burts of power, for deep engraving its the peak power that is the key, IPG sell a 100 watt fibre and a 10 watt pulsed fibre, the 100 will not engrave steel in any way the 10 watt blasts it away, same wave length but the one with less 'power' outperforms the one with more 'power'.And this is what can confuse people buy an engraving machine
But ultimatley it is all down to "POWER" just different types of it, and "PEAK POWER" is the really key for deep engraving.
Cheers

Ross lagden
08-19-2011, 3:26 PM
The reason I purchased the 50W Yag was purely to make a black mark on 1mm stainless steel, from what I am reading i have probably wasted my money if it distorts the metal.Are there any ways to prevent distortion of the metal while it marks it. Will i still have distortion if i am just marking and not engraving?

Thanks

Bruce Boone
08-19-2011, 6:16 PM
I have an 80 watt YAG and it can easily cut or deep engrave stainless. To mark it black, I was instructed to defocus it and run 3 passes at a lower power. That's what it took to get a nice black marking for mine.

Ross lagden
08-20-2011, 9:10 AM
I have an 80 watt YAG and it can easily cut or deep engrave stainless. To mark it black, I was instructed to defocus it and run 3 passes at a lower power. That's what it took to get a nice black marking for mine.

And when you are marking it with a black mark, does it distort the metal?

Thanks

Bruce Boone
08-20-2011, 10:24 AM
It doesn't distort at all for me, but I'm doing rings which might not be as affected as flat stock. The heat is a lot lower when it's out of focus, so it definitely has a chance.

Rodne Gold
08-20-2011, 12:22 PM
Its not that distorted that the plate is warped. its just you can see an impression of the engraving behind the plate.

matthew knott
08-21-2011, 6:38 PM
It will defiantly distort 1mm thick, i always recommend 2mm plus, your ok if you are only blacking a small area, for example a say a 2x1 inch plate with small wording will probably be ok as its small amounts of heat in small areas for short durations, if you wanted to put a Nike swoosh as large as you could then its lots of heat in the same area for a long time. One thing that helps is setting a lower power and going over the area several times BUT on flat plate the material will start to bow up at the edges and you get a situation where the marks aren't on top of each over. You can clamp the edges down but it needs to be hard, i have a 10kg lump of metal and I've seen it lift up whilst trying to hold and edge. This happens much less on larger sheets as the dissipate the heat better. Also if you set a low frequency (5khz) it will engrave but also black the area and this greatly reduces the heat (but its not a true black). We often quote against companies that have used a co2 and cermark and we can beat them on price but the quality can be hard to get, our fibre is by far the best but cermark gives great results (just slow and hassel).
Matt

Ross lagden
08-21-2011, 6:58 PM
It will defiantly distort 1mm thick, i always recommend 2mm plus, your ok if you are only blacking a small area, for example a say a 2x1 inch plate with small wording will probably be ok as its small amounts of heat in small areas for short durations, if you wanted to put a Nike swoosh as large as you could then its lots of heat in the same area for a long time. One thing that helps is setting a lower power and going over the area several times BUT on flat plate the material will start to bow up at the edges and you get a situation where the marks aren't on top of each over. You can clamp the edges down but it needs to be hard, i have a 10kg lump of metal and I've seen it lift up whilst trying to hold and edge. This happens much less on larger sheets as the dissipate the heat better. Also if you set a low frequency (5khz) it will engrave but also black the area and this greatly reduces the heat (but its not a true black). We often quote against companies that have used a co2 and cermark and we can beat them on price but the quality can be hard to get, our fibre is by far the best but cermark gives great results (just slow and hassel).
Matt

Hmm, Thats worrying to hear, The metal can't be any thicker than 1mm for what i need it to do. I only need it to do small logos and text, not massive designs all over the metal. The manufacturer showed me a video of it marking a 1mm piece of aluminum which didn't distort at all, but perhaps its different with coated aluminum.

Thanks

Rangarajan Saravana kumar
08-22-2011, 8:42 AM
Using a 50w yag laser Flash pumped, what will be the maximum depth we could get at one shot ?,

if the diode system is used, the depth will vary?

What is meant by Peak Pulse Power? Will it be factor for deciding depth?

Advantages for having more PPP?

Regards,
Saravanakumar

matthew knott
08-22-2011, 1:49 PM
Hmm, Thats worrying to hear, The metal can't be any thicker than 1mm for what i need it to do. I only need it to do small logos and text, not massive designs all over the metal. The manufacturer showed me a video of it marking a 1mm piece of aluminum which didn't distort at all, but perhaps its different with coated aluminum.

Thanks

Aluminium is totaly different, doesnt destort at all no mater how hard i hit it,steel its like a bi-metal strip, heat stainless and it bends, ally just soaks up the heat, i just this second did a name plate for a car some guy is building across the way and i put a signature on it and that started bending (.75mm, and you can see the distortion behind the mark, (very faint). Out of interest did you not get the manufacturer to run a sample of what you needed before you purchased the machine?

matthew knott
08-22-2011, 1:54 PM
And Rangarajan, there are so many elements to the depth equation you can really answer it, material, speed, spot size, peak power, all have an effect. Diode pumped and lamp pumped are simular but be aware the manufacturer will sell the laser at its max CW power, for example we have 120watt lamped pumped but this is with a 5mm rod, we have a 40 watt machine (diode) that has a 2.8mm rod, the 40w engraves deeper quicker because all 40 watts is in a tiny area, you cant buy these machines based on POWER! as you may be disapointed! Try before you buy!!

Ross lagden
08-22-2011, 8:06 PM
Aluminium is totaly different, doesnt destort at all no mater how hard i hit it,steel its like a bi-metal strip, heat stainless and it bends, ally just soaks up the heat, i just this second did a name plate for a car some guy is building across the way and i put a signature on it and that started bending (.75mm, and you can see the distortion behind the mark, (very faint). Out of interest did you not get the manufacturer to run a sample of what you needed before you purchased the machine?

No i didn't, they showed me photos and stuff of thin metals they had marked and it all looked good. There must be a way to keep it cool, would a YAG laser mark through water? perhaps i could submerge it into ice water? Or really low heat and multiple pases. I guess I won't know until it arrives.

matthew knott
08-23-2011, 3:30 PM
yag wavelength absorbs into water so that a no-no, i was going to try covering the back in heatsink compound and sticking to a big block of alloy but never got round to it, low power, lots of passes and avoid large filled areas and you should be ok. Are you marking small plates or are these bigish itmes as that will help? you should be able to adjust speed,power and frequency on your yag, for a balck mark i would start with 60% power 50khz and 200 mm/second with say 3 repeats and see how it goes.

Ross lagden
08-23-2011, 3:50 PM
Thanks for all your help. Its only small plates that I am going to mark. I decided to test the strength of the plates on a co2 laser that I have with thermark, I was giving it 100% power and 10% speed, with a large design In the middle. The metal didn't bend at all. The metal plates seem very sturdy so hopefully they can withstand the yag when it arrives.

Dan Hintz
08-24-2011, 7:18 AM
yag wavelength absorbs into water so that a no-no
Depends upon the exact wavelength. Since YAGs cover a number of common wavelengths, you really need to know what kind of machine you have. Right at 1um, it's a no-go... but drop down to a bit above 0.9um (let's say around 915nm) or jump up to around 1.1um, and the absorption drops to a few percent. I doubt those machines are right at 1um, but they're also not likely close enough to the other points mentioned to make a difference... but it's worth checking. 960nm is a common output, so that would be my guess.

matthew knott
08-24-2011, 7:37 AM
nearly all engraving yag machines are 1064nm, any outside this (that are yag and not YVO4 or fibre) are odd machines for speical applications.

Rangarajan Saravana kumar
09-17-2011, 10:53 PM
Hi Mathew,

Rangarajan Saravana kumar
09-17-2011, 10:55 PM
Hi Matthew,

I have send a PM to you!!!

Regards,
Saravana kumar