Do you hone your tools after the wheel?

[John Keeton]

There have been recent comments about sharpening of turning tools. Some folks use wheels - AO, diamond, CBN, and some folks use belts, Tormek, etc.

We have had a couple of folks comment about honing the edge after it comes off the wheel, etc.

So, do you hone? And, if you do, since most "card" hones are double sided/double grit, which grits do you prefer?

[Nate Davey]

I hone my skew and cutting bit for my hollower.

[Eric Holmquist]

Depends on what I'm doing. If I'm just roughing out a bowl that will be re-turned after drying, I don't bother with honing at home. When making finish cuts I will often hone unless the cuts leading up to that point are nice and clean. I always hone my skew.

[Bill Bolen]

Skews only

[Jon Prouty]

I've never seen a good video of honing turning tools, except maybe the skew. Anyone have a link to a good one? I guess that I've seen the mdf with compound done too.

JP

[Roger Chandler]

I hone my skews..........at least I did before getting the CBN wheel..............now, I don't think I need to............I did take a diamond stone [fine grit] to the edge just as an experiment after the CBN...........I think it was just as good with the CBN.......from what I could tell, the cuts were actually a bit better after the CBN than I got after I honed it..............others experience may vary, but that is what I got..........

The fresh off the wheel edge on my skew gave me long spiral curlees with a planing cut, and they were shorter with the honed edge.........I don't know how to account for that, but it was what happened on hard maple. The fresh off the wheel grind went from one end of the blank to the other without stopping the cut.........a nice experience............when I did it with the honed edge, I had to start the cut twice over the distance as the cut would just cease slicing the grain on that piece of hard maple.

The plunge cuts were a bit better off the CBN wheel for me as well........the cut would go a bit deeper without any tear out, although I did not get any tear out with the honed edge as well.

[Harry Robinette]

I've been honing sense I seen and talked to Micheal Lee,what he said got me thinking like him.If you hone your tool you'll start with the sharpest tool you can,it will stay sharper longer and take less time and steel to rehone back to the sharpest you can make it.Made sense to me.
Just my $.02

[Bob Bergstrom]

Of the turners I filmed at the National Symposium, both Al Stirt and Chris Stott honed the inside of the flutes of their gouges. They also raised the burr on their scrappers using a diamond stone. After using the diamond card to hone the top of the scrapper flat, they would then run it up the front bevel to raise a small but effective burr. Al Stirt had a slip stone diamond that he used on the inside of flutes before he turned 14 beads on the bottom of a platter. without removing the tool from the wood. They were flawless. He did not used a hone on his large gouges used to remove wood.

[charlie knighton]

my Alan Lacer hook tool i hone if i make it wide enough, most time i will hone John Jordan double sided scraper, most gouges i do not

[Tim Leiter]

I only hone my skews. I try to get them "scary sharp".

[Scott Hackler]

I hone all of my gouges after the white (stock 180) wheel. I dont think the edges are sharp or even enough after the wheel I have. I put a micro bevel on the edges with a 600 grit diamond bench stone. The cards are pretty useless (at least the one I bought).

[Steve Schlumpf]

John, I did not vote in this poll because I do not hone at this time but am now considering honing the flute of my bowl gouge. I just picked up the CBN wheel and it does a great job on sharpening my bowl gouge but I have noticed a burr on the flute side of the edge. While that will not make a difference on roughing cuts... I do use the same gouge for finish cuts and that is when I would like to hone the flute. Any ideas on what I can use to hone the flute area?

[Tim Thiebaut]

I dont hone at this time, not because I am opposed to it, I just havnt learned anything about it at this time yet.

[Dennis Ford]

I hone tools for finish cuts but not for roughing cuts. I have polished the flutes of all my gouges (some needed this more than others) using a 1/4" mdf disk mounted on a faceplate (via a glue-block).

[Bernie Weishapl]

John I use a 600 grit hone (Alan Lacer) on my skew after the wheel. If I use the tormek I use the honing wheel on all gouges after sharpening.

[Roger Chandler]

Any ideas on what I can use to hone the flute area?

Steve,

You won't find any better way to hone a flute, than to get yourself a leather strop wheel and some compound. You can get them that have a mandrel that will fit into a drill, or better yet a drill chuck with #2 morse taper for your lathe, turn it up and it will put an absolute razor edge on it. the leather strop wheel should have a convex outer edge on the wheel.........super scary sharp!!! I think Rockler and Woodcraft sell them.

[Jim Burr]

Dale Nish was turning a bowl in the shop of a very famous turner several years ago. Nish sharpened his gouge and was asked why he didn't hone the gouge. He put the gouge on the bowl and spun the wheel twice and said "why..the hone would be gone that quick" If it comes from Dale Nish...it may be worth listening to.

[bob svoboda]

Only Skews with a fine diamond hone. I know it would be cumbersome, but IMHO the poll would be more valuable if it were tool specific.

[Joe Meirhaeghe]

Steve
I hone the inside of the flute with a 600 grit Alan Lacer diamond hone. It's the only one I know of the has 2 different size radius that is diamond coated on the radius. It works great. That is the only honing I do at this time.


John, I did not vote in this poll because I do not hone at this time but am now considering honing the flute of my bowl gouge. I just picked up the CBN wheel and it does a great job on sharpening my bowl gouge but I have noticed a burr on the flute side of the edge. While that will not make a difference on roughing cuts... I do use the same gouge for finish cuts and that is when I would like to hone the flute. Any ideas on what I can use to hone the flute area?

[Bob Bergstrom]

John, I did not vote in this poll because I do not hone at this time but am now considering honing the flute of my bowl gouge. I just picked up the CBN wheel and it does a great job on sharpening my bowl gouge but I have noticed a burr on the flute side of the edge. While that will not make a difference on roughing cuts... I do use the same gouge for finish cuts and that is when I would like to hone the flute. Any ideas on what I can use to hone the flute area?


Dick Sing did a demo for our club last year. He said the first thing he does with a new gouge. is to put a piece of particle board on the lathe, turn it round and shape the edge the same as the inside of the flute. He then charges the particle board with black sharpening compound. He buffs the inside of the flute. You could go even finer if a finer polish is wanted. A carver's slipstone will also work.

[Jon Nuckles]

I hone my skews, though I have not used one since my last trip to Urgent Care, and I use a diamond stone to remove the burr from the top of my scrapers before resharpening them.

[Mike Davis NC]

I hone everything to 600 grit, haven't used a grinding wheel in years.

[Paul Williams]

I hone my skew with a 600 grit card and sometimes finer. I use the diamond card to touch up the edge of my gouge between trips to the grinder.

[Reed Gray]

The only reason to hone a gouge that I can think of is to remove the burr on the inside of the flute after grinding. That is only necessary if you use your gouge for a shear cut for clean up work because the burr can interfere. Since I use a scraper for that, it isn't necessary. Also, the CBN wheels I have been using for 5 plus years aren't as coarse as aluminum oxide wheels.

Just got a D Way 180 grit wheel and have to put it on my grinder.

robo hippy

[Jeff Nicol]

This has been addressed before and it all has a lot to do with the operation on the lathe I am doing at the time. For roughing it is not necessary at all as the bur is removed in just seconds and if you grind the tools correctly in the beginning when you go back to the grinder you should only need the weight of the tool to put a fresh edge on, unless you hit a rock or nail, or heaven forbid drop the tool on the concrete! If you have to grind a lot, maybe the grind being used is not appropriate for the cut you are doing or the grind is not correct. When the tool comes off a grinder it should have no facets and be a hollow ground edge, meaning it has the radius of the wheel you are using. If you use a belt on a flat platen you won't get a hollow grind, but make one continuous sweep of the tool or blend them as near the point of the gouge to not leave facets. I will hone a gouge if I am going to do a shear scrape or refine an area that was not cut cleanly the first pass, and every style of gouge is a little different where it is used and will determine when and if I will hone.

On skews I will hone for a finish cut or for a shear scrape, also it is important to address the skew with the hone correctly. If it has been sharpened on a round wheel the hollow grind is in play and the card or stone must touch the heel of the grind and the edge of the grind at the same time. If you just hone the cutting edge you are putting a different angle on the edge thus changing the attack of the cut and that is what will cause the cut to stop and have to restart, because the little tiny bevel that is left from honing just the edge is near to impossible to keep in good contact with the wood. If you are using a radius cutting edge on the skew it will be different from a straight skew, but the same principles.

Steve, There are many round or tapered slip stones for doing the inside of flutes. I have a ceramic one and a diamond one that is like half a cone that is about 3/8" at the small end and 1" at the large end that will let you do most all sizes of gouges. Here is a link to a diamond one. http://www.amazon.com/DMT-DCMF-Diamond-Cone-Medium/dp/B00004WFT2

To hone or not to hone...........maybe or maybe not,

Jeff

[Josh Bowman]

John, I did not vote in this poll because I do not hone at this time but am now considering honing the flute of my bowl gouge. I just picked up the CBN wheel and it does a great job on sharpening my bowl gouge but I have noticed a burr on the flute side of the edge. While that will not make a difference on roughing cuts... I do use the same gouge for finish cuts and that is when I would like to hone the flute. Any ideas on what I can use to hone the flute area?
Steve,
As you know I have the Tormek and it has just a leather honing wheel that you load with some paste. Like the picture below:
I'd think you could get a thick strip of leather then shape it to your gouge flute and clamp it in your vise, put some diamond paste on it and drag the gouges flute on it. It would work like the slow turning tormek. Just a thought.

[Harvey Ghesser]

robo "happy"!:D

[Steve Trauthwein]

I saw Alan Lacer at a demo this spring. There were only 18 of us so it was a very neat experience. Alan hones everything. He keeps two hones in his turning smock, a 280 grit (I think) and a 600 grit. Since the demo I have been doing a lot more honing. What I have discovered is that it doesn't replace sharpening, one still has to go to the wheel.

The part of the demo that I saw that changed and improved one aspect of my turning was Alan's use of a round nose scraper on end grain. He would sharpen the scraper (rather steep angle) then hone the top and raise a burr with a solid carbide burnisher. He would vary the pressure to raise the burr according to whether or not it was a fisnish cut. He would hold the scraper at an angle to the wood to get a shearing action.

I purchased a kit to make the carbide burnisher and have cut end grain on pine, bass wood and various other soft woods to the point that sanding was unnecessary. One can get the same results with a hook tool, but as anyone who has used one knows they are harder to control.

Regards, Steve

[John Keeton]

Great comments, here!! Personally, I have a hone, but rarely use it. However, since getting my CBN wheel, I have experienced a whole new level of sharp, and may now be interested in taking this further.

Dick Sing did a demo for our club last year. He said the first thing he does with a new gouge. is to put a piece of particle board on the lathe, turn it round and shape the edge the same as the inside of the flute. He then charges the particle board with black sharpening compound. He buffs the inside of the flute. You could go even finer if a finer polish is wanted. A carver's slipstone will also work.I will say that the polish on the D-Way Tools 1/2" gouge I bought at AAW is awesome! I really think this does make a big difference in the cut. Very, very pleased with the gouge.

I am also intrigued with the "bullet" grind on the skew. I have avoided the skew from the get go, and may give that another try, as well. Don't want to derail this thread into a skew discussion, though. Perhaps that will be another topic for another thread!

[Michael James]

I really just use the card to touch up the tool between sharpenings.
mj

[stefan behr]

Hi there,

I hone most of my tools.
I use a felt wheel with honing compound and a little honing file for hook tools and scrapers.
It works like that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL9l2qQ1pN8&feature=player_embedded

[Alan Trout]

John,

I hone my skews after they have been on the grinder I use the DMT duo-sharp fine extra fine hone. I don't hone my gouges off of the wheel but do hone between sharpening's. I use the red or blue DMT file for those. So there is no correct answer for what I do in your poll.

Alan

[Rick Markham]

I didn't vote either, and I suppose that requires some explanation on my part. First off I sharpen on a Tormek with a grey wheel. I don't hone the bevel on gouges, but I do use lee valley's green bar of polishing compound on my leather honing wheel like Josh posted. I polish it until it's super shiny and slick when I get the gouge. Then I do occasional touch ups as it gets gunk/scratches on it. The burr generated by the Tormek seems much more "mild" than on traditional grinders so I usually just let it be.

My skew I have honed, but so far in my experience I get a perfect finish cut without it using the bullet grind. So it just gets touch ups on the grinder wheel now.

All of my hollowing bits/tooling gets flattened, and then polished like a plane blade to 16000 grit. Then they are just occasionally touched up on the leather strop with compound. I generally leave the burr from grinding on those, occasionally I will wipe it off. The burr really seems inconsequential once you have a polished flat surface on those little scrapers.

So my answer is always (new gouges), never (skew), and sometimes :D lol

Hows that for dancing around the subject :D

John K, try the skew... now! :) It's worth it, trust me ;)

[Thom Sturgill]

My cards are single sided, but I sharpen and hone before every project and generally only need to touch up with a hone during the project. I saw Jimmy Clewes at the last NC symposium and he had just shifted to using Doug's gouges and he honed them. Said he didn't use or show the hone on his videos because of the controversy, IIRC.

I often think that most who don't, just don't know how to hone without rounding the edge. As far as honing the inside, a roll of fine emory cloth will work wonders, and conform to the shape of the flute.

[Chris Burgess]

I keep my diamond hone by my lathe. I am still working on my sharpening as a whole but hone all my chisles. If I am turning and the cut starts to slack I hit it w/ the Hone and go right back to work. I have cut my grinder time down by 75% by maintaining my edges this way. A tool almost has to drop tip down to see the grinder.

[Brian Kent]

I assume from this discussion that sharpening and honing turning tools is very different than plane blades and chisels. I always hone to 8000, which is pretty standard for "best practices". Can anyone shed some light on the difference in cutting style or function that makes these so different from each other?

[John Keeton]

Brian, the expected quality of cut with a hand plane is significantly different than with a lathe gouge. In addition, when wood is cut with a gouge, not all of the edge is introduced to the wood at the same time. To make matters more complicated, the amount of "road miles" for a lathe tool far and away exceeds the mileage for the edge of flatwork tools.

As far as honing the inside, a roll of fine emory cloth will work wonders, and conform to the shape of the flute.I know from talking with Dave Schweitzer, that he is not in favor of honing the inside of a gouge flute for fear that many will deform the contour of the flute. The flutes of Dave's gouges are polished to a high degree, and I suspect that any burr on the inside edge of the flute would quickly disappear. I often will take a scrap of wood and rub it over the edge to remove any visible burr. I have not experienced much of that with the CBN.

Lots of interesting observations! Great responses.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John...I hadn't responded for one reason....I'm not sure what the grit is but I use an Indian teardrop shaped slipstone on the inside of my gouges. I only give it a couple quick swipes of it to knock off the burrs. I have tried honing the working bevel but haven't noticed any real differences......except on my skews. They get honed with a diamond hone.

[Jim Underwood]

I only hone skews on a stone.

The biggest reason is that I don't want to try honing a gouge with the 3 sided stone holder... and my diamond cards are really too coarse to be called "honing".

[Michael Mills]

I do hone but it is manly due to the sharpening station I built in the 80’s. The motor is underneath and it has two arbors with grey, white, fine cratex, and cloth (stropping with jewelers rogue). After sharpening on the white it goes to the cratex. I use the same jig on the cratex that I use on the white and the tool may be honed 20-30+ times before going back to the white. Needless to say, you must be able to run in reverse to do it this way.

In my terminology
Sharpening would be with the gray or white stone. Results in a burr, useful to the turner, to be done away with by the flat worker.
Honing; by diamond, stone, or man made. May leave a wire edge (different from a grinding wheel burr).
Stropping; leather, cloth, mdf, etc. usually charged with a fine abrasive to remove the wire edge or to add back a razor edge.

My tools are usually honed (but may be only sharpened), skews are stropped and when I make a bedan it will probably be stropped. I do think a honed edge (razor sharp supported metal) should give a cleaner cut than an unsupported burr*.
If I ever learn to turn well enough for it to make a flip, I may strop other tools for the final passes. For now I have to go to the 120 so I don’t bother. :D

[Bill Neddow]

Steve, you can get round diamond hones at knife shops that are ideal for the job. You can also use the Lacer diamond hone as one edge is specifically designed for what you want.