What is your opinion of Radial Arm Saws?

[Frank Pellow]

In the thread http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=16931, several people have expressed their opinions about and use of RASs. I suggested to the originator of the thread, Aurelio Alarcon, that he set up a poll and he, in turn, suggested that someone else might want to go ahead and create the poll on his behalf.

Here goes.

[Tyler Howell]

I had to have it 25 yrs ago. Couldn't sleep in anticipation the night before. It served me well but....... I didn't know any better. Miters are suppose to match, joints should line up. Cuts repeatable. The mistakes weren't all my fault:o !
PS. You need to get some sleep Frank, some of us have to be up this early.

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Hey Frank...Did you decide to write that book after all?

[Bill Arnold]

Years ago, I had an RAS I inherited from my father when he died. I used it some, but spent more time keeping it squared up than anything else. Wasn't like you could point to anything that was really loose, just sloppy in general. I gave it to a nephew when he was doing some work on his house.

About 6 years ago, I thought I'd have another go at one because of the types of things I was building. Bought a new one that was supposed to be pretty decent. I could probably get a couple of 90* cuts before it drifted -- forget miters. I returned it before the 30 day period.

My ideal shop (when I hit the Lottery) would include one for rough cutting material.

[Bob Aquino]

Had an old sears model, paid 50 for it, fixed it up but could never get it aligned no matter how much I tried. Took up too much space so I sold it. Miter saws do a much better job for crosscutting stock that is not too wide. Don't miss it at all.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I had the option to get one from my grandpa, but I got a SMCS before I picked it up. I think I am happier with the SCMS. If I ever get a bigger shop where I have free space, one would be nice for cutting down rough stock to rough sizes. I use the SCMS for that job now and it would be nice to put a cheapo blade in the RAS and not use the good blade in the SCMS for that task.

[George Matthews]

I've have and regularly use a Radial Arm Saw (RAS) since 1979. It was the only 'real' saw I had until my first Craftsman table saw a few years ago. I made the major mistake of buying the consumer grade aluminum direct drive TS, only to find it well below expectations. After only two weeks the motor exploded! I returned it. I eventually found am old, but very well built, Crafstman cast iron TS on eBay. I'm very pleased with the TS except the older fence needs to be upgraded.

I'm amazed how most TS owners will go to extreme measures to cross cut long narrow pieces, when a RAS or a compound miter saw (CMS) is a better choice.

If I were to start over, I would only 'need' a good, CMS and a TS. The CMS is great when consrtucting decks and other off-site projects.

[John Miliunas]

Had one given to me years ago. Needed a new bed, blade and tuning. And more tuning. Then, some more tuning. Once I had it dialed in, I was successful in getting some nice cuts. The next time, more tuning. Dial it in, tune, cut, stop, start over. Naw, the included pic is what I used it most for until the last rummage sale we had.:) :cool:

[mike lucas]

I have a radial arm saw, and could not see geting anything done without one.

For more then 20 years I used two different Sears Craftsman 10" RAS`s, I completely wore the first 1971 model out. I then replaced it with a 1977 model. It got the job done very well as long as it was tuned correctly. But it seemed like I spent too much time with tuning it. I looked for more then 5 years for a good old DeWalt of any size 12" or bigger.

Then this past fall, I got lucky, and found a 14" model GA built in 1953! As of now I am using the old table from the last saw, which is to small, but aligned very accurately. Once I get this saw setup and in its proper place should never need another tune up as long as I live.

If I were to have just one machine, it would be a DeWalt radial arm saw like the one I curently have. No other machine is as versital as a well tuned radial arm saw. Not a table saw, not a planer, not any machine.

As you may notice, I love the radial arm saw. I feel in love with them when I was in Industrial Arts class back in about 1970 when I was in 7th or 8th grade. They had one just like the one I now have. It was a long way from being tuned. With the help of the Teacher, I built a new table, fence, and tuned it the best I could with what little I knew back then. Then and there I knew I would have one someday. I just didn't think it would take some 35 years.:eek:

In the 50`s DeWalt made gimmic`s for the ras like a belt sander, jig saw, and even a lathe. I don't know how they worked! But it shows how much potential the saw has.

A well tuned radial arm saw can rip, cross cut, dado, miter, bevel, all much easier and safer then a table saw. If I would have had this DeWalt before I bought the Powermaitc table saw, I would have bought a different machine instead. But I have it, and I use it a lot, just nothing compared to the use the radail arm saw gets.

[mike lucas]

Had one given to me years ago. Needed a new bed, blade and tuning. And more tuning. Then, some more tuning. Once I had it dialed in, I was successful in getting some nice cuts. The next time, more tuning. Dial it in, tune, cut, stop, start over. Naw, the included pic is what I used it most for until the last rummage sale we had.:) :cool:
John that looks exactly like the 1977 model I had last. I never had trouble keeping it aligned if I cut 90* cross cuts only. I used it every single day of my woodworking life from about 1990 until this last December, I tuned it about 2-3 times per year. I did not use it for ripping, and not much for miters and bevels. But it was a cheap saw none the less. The arm on my new old DeWalt weighs more then the complete craftsman saw. (Saw without table/fence weighs about 70#, arm on DeWalt more then 75#, and overall weight near 450#)

I have noticed a pattren since finding these woodworking forums. nearly all ras bashers own a cheap craftsman saw. That explains a whole lot. If you were to use a well tuned 50`s DeWalt ras, you would find out that you didn't have a machine before, the craftsman is more like a dangerous toy, not a machine!

[Jerry Clark]

I bought a Craftman RAS about 20 years ago-- Not cheap-- $550-- It was electronic read-out for miters and height. Used a special "J" battery-- which cost $10 and would only last a couple weeks. I do some cross-cuts and not much else-- Like everyone else said, cut- tune- cut- tune. The cheap top rollers are some of the problem in keeping it alligned. :mad: Has six drawers in the bottom which is OK for storage.It is a dangerous tool in IMO! :eek:

[Duane Mohney]

In my last shop, the one that belonged to my father, we had a RAS. It was a 1970ish Craftsman that was dead on at 90 and 45 and that was it's primary use.

Would I purchase one again? Most likely not, I would get a SCMS and a Guided (Circular Saw and Router) System.

Would I gladly take my fathers when he moves? Absolutly

[Dino Makropoulos]

the craftsman is more like a dangerous toy, not a machine!

Mike.
I disagree with you here. This THING was ....great. You can even open holes on the wall. :confused:
And for fine tune up, It was the only machine that you can use a sludge hummer to make sure it will never start again. I put mine out of use after.... I 'almost' kill my son with it. :confused:
And the response from the Co?
I' must be stupid. :confused:
And I was so stupid that I don't even try to sell it and take my money back. :confused:

[Mark Singer]

I had one....it was really bad! inaccurate and scary....I will never have another!

[aurelio alarcon]

In the thread http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=16931, several people have expressed there opinions about and use of RASs. I suggested to the originator of the thread, Aurelio Alarcon, that he set up a poll and he, in turn, suggested that someone else might want to go ahead and create the poll on his behalf.

Here goes.
Thanks for the poll Frank. I do believe you covered all the questions--at least all the ones that I think are pertinent. I voted. I accedently voted for "other". But I meant to vote that "I would like to get one". I am not sure if this can be corrected or not. But one of those "other" votes should read that "I don't have one but would like one". Again, thanks for the poll. Excellent job!

[Tom LaRussa]

In the thread http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=16931, several people have expressed there opinions about and use of RASs. I suggested to the originator of the thread, Aurelio Alarcon, that he set up a poll and he, in turn, suggested that someone else might want to go ahead and create the poll on his behalf.

Here goes.
I voted "other" so here's my explanation.

I think a RAS is great for doing construction, i.e., framing, but it's pretty useless for making fine furniture.

JMHO, YMMV, Etc.

[Steve Nelson]

I have one and never use it, has new top and blade guard and if anyone around dallas wanted one I would make them a great deal.I have a 12" slider and it and TS will do everything I need

[Steve Clardy]

I bought a new craftsman in 1985 and still have it. Used only for rough cutoffs, used almost daily.
It would not stay aligned, even after numerous service calls from the sears repair guy.
It's been so long since the miter lever was released, that the lever is rusted and won't release. Had lots of motor issues to deal with.
Would I buy another? Probably not. I would buy another 12" CMS slider first.

[lou sansone]

IMHO this question is not a really fair one as can be seen from the responses. If you look at those responding most seem have used the "craftsman" RAS and have concluded that " A RAS is not a very accurate or high quality machine". If that is all I had ever used I would have to agree. Wasn't the real question "how usefull are RAS's" and not "what do you think of a craftsman RAS and would you recommend someone getting one for their shop". In my mind these are two completly different questions. I am not trying to nit-pick, but the original question was really " hey I am setting up shop and wonder if a RAS is usefull... bla bla bla".

I think it is quite possible if many of those who are giving a "thumbs down" were to use a higher quality saw like the turret head rockwell / delta or the older dewalt / "original saw" or the northfield unipoint, then the answer would be different.

[Paul Geer]

I had one and liked what it could do but I had concerns about safety. It was a Craftsman, I would say 1960's vintage, and used a 9" blade. Really it was in good shape and the arm was fairly ridged but when using a 8" dado on the saw it would bough down and sometimes stall cuting 1/4" deep 3/4" wide dados. Maybe the motor had problems, I don't know but with a 50 tooth carbide blade it cross cut cleanly and did miters well too at that. Anyway I got it free and it left for free! :p

Now maybe one day I might get a more worth while machine but for now I just don't need a RAS.

[Jim O'Dell]

In fact, my first major tool was a RS. I got a lot of mileage out of it. Burned the motor or overload protection out, and it was going to cost a lot to replace, so I chose a TS instead. My Dad recently gave up woodworking and his tools because of degrading eye site, and just didn't feel comfortable around equipment anymore, and sent me his. It is getting used cutting Hardiboard trim and siding that I wouldn't dare do on the TS...just too hard to control the long lengths with out proper in and out feed tables. Jim.

[Ken Salisbury]

, but it's pretty useless for making fine furniture.

JMHO, YMMV, Etc.

I emphatically disagree. Maybe my "stuff" is not considered "fine furniture" in some eyes. Please visit my website and look at a small sample of my work and judge for yourself. I would venture to say that every piece there had some parts cut using a RAS. As a matter of fact the first Grandfather clock I made in 1965 was made entirely with a RAS and a BS. Attached is a photo. Please excuse the quality. It was scanned and cropped from a very old :) IBM Company newspaper.

[Mike Kelly]

I met Wally Kunkel in San Antonio many years ago when he was selling Forrest sawblades. He was known as Mr. Sawdust and had an affinity for the radial arm saw and in particular the DeWalt. It was and still is bulletproof as far as RAS's go. I suppose the Delta machines are pretty good still too. The Original Saw Company still makes the DeWalt machines. http://www.originalsaw.com/ I think they start at about $3,000 and go up with size.
Mr. Sawdust has a book, "How to Master The Radial Saw," with a lot of RAS info, techniques and history on their website. You can get a sample of one of the chapters on it. He passed away in 1997.
http://www.mrsawdust.com/index.php

[Dale Thompson]

Had one given to me years ago. Needed a new bed, blade and tuning. And more tuning. Then, some more tuning. Once I had it dialed in, I was successful in getting some nice cuts. The next time, more tuning. Dial it in, tune, cut, stop, start over. Naw, the included pic is what I used it most for until the last rummage sale we had.:) :cool:

Hey Spring,
I just checked my shop to make sure that you didn't sell MY Radial Arm Saw at your last rummage sale. It's still there so you are off the hook. ;) They are identical.

I can't comment on a RAS because I get all emotional over the subject. In fact, I have already soaked two used oil rags in wiping my tears. :( My $99, 9" Craftsman RAS was the first "stationary" power tool that I ever had. With all of the fiddling that you mentioned, it did just about every operation that is now done by my whole shop full of tools. The fact is that my old 9" RAS definitely had more capability at woodworking than I do now! :o

Presently, mine is used as a storage table and to cut up my scrap, otherwise known as "projects", so that the pieces fit in the fireplace. :)

Leave it to this forum to force me to make an extra appointment with my "shrink". :cool: :eek: :)

Dale T.

[John P. Smith]

I have a Delta/Rockwell (actually only says Rockwell on the saw, so I guess it is pre-Delta) that was given to me years ago. I suppose it is not as solid as an early DeWalt, but I think it is well made and it does what I want it to. I also have a 12" DeWalt SCMS. I haven't felt the need for a table saw yet... But now that I am moving to a new (to me) house with a 28X32 (:D mini-gloat) shop who knows what I may feel the "need" for. I do use the SCMS more than the RAS lately, but part of that is because the SCMS is on a wheeled stand and goes to the work site.

Once I get moved I do hope to do more "woodworking" as opposed to "construction", but I plan to see how I do with the RAS before I look at getting a table saw. I feel sure I will buy a EZSmart CS guide before a table saw. Can anybody here tell me why I would need to add a table saw to that trio of blades, as long as the RAS is cutting acurately?:confused:

[mike lucas]

I have a Delta/Rockwell (actually only says Rockwell on the saw, so I guess it is pre-Delta) that was given to me years ago. I suppose it is not as solid as an early DeWalt, but I think it is well made and it does what I want it to. I also have a 12" DeWalt SCMS. I haven't felt the need for a table saw yet... But now that I am moving to a new (to me) house with a 28X32 (:D mini-gloat) shop who knows what I may feel the "need" for. I do use the SCMS more than the RAS lately, but part of that is because the SCMS is on a wheeled stand and goes to the work site.

Once I get moved I do hope to do more "woodworking" as opposed to "construction", but I plan to see how I do with the RAS before I look at getting a table saw. I feel sure I will buy a EZSmart CS guide before a table saw. Can anybody here tell me why I would need to add a table saw to that trio of blades, as long as the RAS is cutting acurately?:confused:
John; congratulations on the new shop. You will find out in short order that the now huge shop, will soon be too small. Mine is 32'X34' and 9' 4" high. It is not very big after just 6 months in it. But you have to make room for the radial arm saw.

The old Rockwell RAS`s are good ones, not as good as the DeWalt was, but it is more then what is needed in most all shops. I do like the turret arm on them better then the DeWalt for ripping.

[Frank Pellow]

...You need to get some sleep Frank, some of us have to be up this early.
I have been waking up in the middle of the night quaite a lot lately. I find the best thing to do is to get up and work for about an hour then go back to bed.



Hey Frank...Did you decide to write that book after all?
But. I an not working on the book.

[Larry D. Wagner]

Frank

The RAS was in fact the very first stationary power tool I ever owned. Started years ago when I purchased a new 9" Craftsman and I used it until it was wore out. My father then gave me his old 9" when he upgraded to a 10" and I wore that one out. I presently have a 10" Craftsman(about 15 years old). While I don't use it as much since I have more toys(eh I mean tools :D ), I still use it for a myriad of things(nibbling dadoes, rough cutting lengths and (Horror of Horrors) with a molding cutter. I keep good blades in it and always use the necessary safety devices. I still feel if I could only have one saw, it's what I would want!

Larry :) :) :)

[William Parks]

I have my dad's old Saw Smith by Yuba which was built in the early 60's. I think they may have been bought out by ShopSmith years ago but I'm not 100% sure.

I use this old saw for cross cutting only. As long as I don't go messing around trying to use it for rip cuts, angled cuts, or dados, it stays pretty true and seldom needs tuning.

Every time my dad comes to visit and I'm in the shop, I always make it a point to make a couple of cuts with it. Like an actor on que, Dad usually starts in with his "Remeber when we built the ......" stories. I never tire of hearing him reminisce over the dozen or so projects we built together and that saw is as much a part of our experiences together as anything else I can think of. He sure gets sentimental over that old boat anchor and truth be told so do I.

[JayStPeter]

Well, I voted that I don't have one, but want one. Keep in mind, it's not real high on the list. But, there are times I would like to be able to use it for Dadoes on long pieces and initial sizing of rough lumber. I didn't buy a SCMS when I upgraded my MS recently as I plan on picking up a RAS when I find someone unloading one super cheap. :D

Jay

[Bob Wilkerson]

I'm a convert to radial arm saws after giving up on one years ago. I had a Toolkraft(Montgomery Wards) RAS that did OK but never gave me the precision I wanted. Part of it was that I didn't know how to set it up properly and get it aligned in all ways.....

Then I got an old DeWalt MBF from a fathers friend just because I liked the way it looked as there was plenty of cast iron in it. Twas the difference between night and DAY! A few years later I ran across a Dewalt 7790 12" RAS and snapped it up as I wanted to be able to cut heavier lumber with it. It only lasted a few years in the shop, sigh.... as I recently picked up a 1953 DeWalt GA 14" RAS for free! Setting it up is one of my current tasks even though I have used it as is with good results. I just want to go thru the complete tuneup to get everything just right. If I had a trailer I'd probably put it on a trailer to take it to the jobsite when framing.

Bob

[Frank Pellow]

Well the poll has closed and it appears that the anti-RAS faction is larger than the pro-RAS faction. Here is a summary (with the 'Other' votes given to the pro group).

Pro:

I have a RAS and use it regularly________________________33

I have a RAS and use it occasionally. Would buy another._____9

I don't have a RAS but would like to get one._______________7

Other_____________________________________________ __4

Pro Sub Total_____________________________________53 = 39%


Anti:

I have a RAS and use it occasionally. Would not buy another.___28

I have a RAS but seldom or never use it._____________________9

I had a RAS but got rid of it.______________________________19

I don't have a RAS and don't want one._____________________26

Anti Sub Total_____________________________________82 = 61%

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi folks,

I don't own a RAS and don't even know if I would ever want to get one.
It's not really a RAS, it's probably a "special" mitre saw, anyway, sometimes I dream of a Graule (http://www.graule-maschinen.de/englisch/).

Regards,

Christian

[mike lucas]

I recently picked up a 1953 DeWalt GA 14" RAS for free! Setting it up is one of my current tasks even though I have used it as is with good results. I just want to go thru the complete tuneup to get everything just right. If I had a trailer I'd probably put it on a trailer to take it to the jobsite when framing.

Bob Congratulations on the new GA, I too have a 1953 GA, the machine is the best tool in my shop. I used the book From Mr. Sawdust to set it up, and learn more about these beast. Great book for owners of old DeWalt radial arm saws.

[Renardo Subrosa]

I'm with you, Mark. I used to use RASs when I worked in the woodworking trade. Bosses like them because you can quickly get stuff done. It makes money, but to me, they are dangerous and I would never own one, nor have I ever needed one. I once worked in a cabinet shop with a computer controlled panel saw with a cutting head that looked like a radial arm saw head. This was ok since the power feed kept it from being dangerous.
--
Reny

[mike lucas]

I once worked in a cabinet shop with a computer controlled panel saw with a cutting head that looked like a radial arm saw head. This was ok since the power feed kept it from being dangerous.
--
Reny How is the raial arm saw more dangeroud then a table saw? There is no way it could be if alligned properly. I think that a well tuned ras is one of the safest, if not the safest machine in the shop.

I just don't understand why so many think they are too dangerous to own or use!:mad:;)

[joseph j shields]

I have a 1968 Craftsman RAS 12" 220volt (bought it used for $100 3 years ago)

I spent a good deal of time cleaning & tuning.

After using it a couple a times it was starting to drift as others have reported.

However, I remember talking to a guy long ago about the "euro way" of cutting on a RAS.

He said to try and push rather than pull the saw blade thru the wood. (Just like a table saw)

Well, I tried it and much to my delight, the drifting seems to have gone away. (My theory is that when you pull the blade, the blade wants to "walk" up the board, which puts stress on the arm... and causes drifting. Pushing does not cause any stress or deflection of the arm)

As a "bonus" I could move my fence back and now I can cut 15.5" cross cut on 3/4" stock.

Pushing the saw thru stock is a bit tricky in that you have to pull the saw back.... them place your wood infront of the blade.

But is works for me... your mileage may vary :)

Anybody else push with their RAS????

-jj

[joseph j shields]

I was thinking.... why not have a poll on who pulls or pushes with their RAS...

I'm new to the forum & can't figure out how to start a poll.:o

Maybe one of you has the smarts... or call tell me how???

-jj

[Mike Kelly]

How is the radial arm saw more dangerous then a table saw? There is no way it could be if alligned properly. I think that a well tuned ras is one of the safest, if not the safest machine in the shop.

I just don't understand why so many think they are too dangerous to own or use!:mad:;)


Mike, I think you are correct that a RAS is typically no more dangerous than a table saw. I think inexperience using either can put you in harm's way. The RAS has more movement of the rotating blade in different planes and can get an inexperienced user in trouble. Ripping a board for instance, feeding it the wrong way could suck someone in pretty quick. Also simple crosscuts with light duty saws can get to the novice. There is just more blade exposed on a RAS. On a table saw it is fixed and can't "climb" after you. Mostly just not understanding all one should know is what gets us in trouble.

[Dale Thompson]

How is the raial arm saw more dangeroud then a table saw? There is no way it could be if alligned properly. I think that a well tuned ras is one of the safest, if not the safest machine in the shop.

I just don't understand why so many think they are too dangerous to own or use!:mad:;)

Mike,
I could not agree with you more!! :cool: There are probably two reasons why some folks think that they are "unsafe". :

1. They are capable of doing so many different operations that the user has to think about what he/she is doing. What works for one operation doesn't necessarily work for all!

2. This one is REALLY BIG! With a RAS, you don't grip the handle with a "white-knuckle death grip"! :eek: That will GUARANTEE that your cut will be inaccurate and, potentially, dangerous. Use the handle to "control" the rate of cut, not to MAKE the cut. A gentle touch is the only way to get accuracy on a RAS!

I liked the RAS because I had manual control of the blade. I certainly can't say that about my PM66! :( :eek: :)

Dale T.

[Basil Rathbone]

I know this is an old thread, but I will post this anyway.

From reading this and many other posts, I agree with those that have noticed that if someone has an accident with a TS, they blame themselves. If they have an accident with a RAS, they blame the saw.

[Rob Millard]

I had a early post WWII Delta that I bought in 1988 for a $100. I could have taken that $100 and lit a match to, and actually come out ahead. The RAS was without a doubt the most dangerous tool I have ever used, and didn't even have the decency to make an accurate cut. I tried to sell it, to no avail, proving most people aren't as dumb as I am. I eventually gave it way, just to get rid of it, and felt guilty saddling someone with that abomination.
Rob Millard

[Bart Leetch]

I had a early post WWII Delta that I bought in 1988 for a $100. I could have taken that $100 and lit a match to, and actually come out ahead. The RAS was without a doubt the most dangerous tool I have ever used, and didn't even have the decency to make an accurate cut. I tried to sell it, to no avail, proving most people aren't as dumb as I am. I eventually gave it way, just to get rid of it, and felt guilty saddling someone with that abomination.
Rob Millard

Rob I just gotta ask did you get the instructions with the saw & did you get it adjusted properly. Also the instructions & maybe the help of someone that has used a RAS would have gone a long ways to help you understand how to safely use a RAS.

I can understand someone being scared if they don't know that the operator has to gently hold the RAS back as they pull it through the cut.

I generally pull the RAS through the cut by keeping my arm stiff & rotating my shoulder until the blade is just out of the front edge of the material being cut at this point my elbow is just starting to bend.

I have often said it on this forum there are no dangerous tools just dangerous operators.

Its just like guns, no gun in & of its self has ever killed anyone it had to be loaded & mishandled or intentionally used to kill.

That Radial Arm Saw or another power tool wasn't dangerous until someone got a hold of it. In the same circumstances with another operator it may or may not be dangerous.

I have an older 1967 12" Craftsman RAS that was my Dad's framing saw I replaced the guide rods & bearings that the saw carriage rolls on. For awhile because of the arrangement of the shop I wasn't able to use it.

I moved it from its ariginal legs to a cabinet on casters. Now with things re-arraigned I'll get in and re-adjust it & start using it. This RAS is the reason I purchased a 12" CMS instead of a SCMS.

[Dev Emch]

This is old stuff... the poll is closed. Oh well.

Yes, I have a monster Dewalt GE with a 7.5 HP motor. Would I sell this? You betcha! I would sell it to make room for a 7.5 HP Northfield X-36 Unipoint RAS.:D

I find the GE quite useful and unless I replace it with a nicer RAS such as the X-36, see no reason to sell it.

It sure as heck beats the pants off a swing saw! When a saw has the nickname Choppy, the widowmaker, I dont think you need to ask why!

[Bill Fields]

I believe all viewpoints were were covered--and diverse they were!

I'm on my third RAS--a very old 12" C'sman--probably mid-60's. I have done many woodworking chores with RAS'.

My first was an original small DeWalt handed down from my father--circa 1955. Study, but very underpowered.

My second was a new circa-1980 C'sman 10" saw featuring stamped steel where cast iron used to be.

As stated, my current RAS is an old 12" C'sman. It requires frequent tuning, but I have done a lot of work with this one. I modified the table to have a 22" crosscut, and a 26" rip capacity.

I have all the alternative tools (TS, Eureka guided saw/table*, routers, etc.) so the old RAS does not get much use now.

If I were a framing contractor, or any carpenter that does many repetitive cross-cuts/cross-dadoes--the RAS would be the tool of choice. But I'm not.

Your first stationary saw? No. A versatile tool which need some expertise in set-up and use--yes.

BILL FIELDS

* recently started using the Smart Table and EZ Guide ssytem in building kitchen cabinets-- the TS and RAS my have to find a new home. This Eureza deal really works, althought the instructions are muddy. BF

[Rick Thom]

And I thought I was the only one with a '78 vintage Craftsman 10" RAS (still). HA!
Accurate, no. Versitile, you bet. Lots of accesories available. It has done a lot of work over the years, none of it very well but paid for itself many times over. A true watershed tool as it turns out. Would I buy another? Don't think so because there are a lot of options available today that better meet my needs.

[Gary Sutherland]

I have an old Uni-Point radial arm saw (800 lbs.- 7-1/2 HP), and use it regularly. I find it to be very accurate. I use the SCMS for many things, and it's certainly quicker to adjust for a cut, but the radial arm has a much larger capacity and will cut through anything I've thrown at like it was butter.

I'll never part with it.

Oh.... many years ago, I had two Craftsman radial arm saws. There is absolutely NO comparison between those and a great old DeWalt or Uni-Point.

Gary

[Frank Chaffee]

I would as soon pull my circular saw backwards thru a cut as use one of those again.
Frank

[Frank Pellow]

I would as soon pull my circular saw backwards thru a cut as use one of those again.
Frank
Frank, I don't know whether or not you are serious about this but pulling a circular saw backwards thru a cut does work. I even have a jig (called Trim-Tramp) that does this and, about 10 years ago, I used my Trim Tramp quite a lot. It was safe, accurate, and made good quality cuts. I will dig my Trim Tramp out and take some pictures if folks are interested.

[Frank Chaffee]

Well Frank,
That does sound interesting, if only because the suggestion comes from you. My experience with the RAS was that it is a poorly designed and dangerous machine.
Please do show us your Trim Tramp.
Always willing to learn more (well *sometimes* willing),
Frank

[lou sansone]

I have an old Uni-Point radial arm saw (800 lbs.- 7-1/2 HP), and use it regularly. I find it to be very accurate. I use the SCMS for many things, and it's certainly quicker to adjust for a cut, but the radial arm has a much larger capacity and will cut through anything I've thrown at like it was butter.

I'll never part with it.

Oh.... many years ago, I had two Craftsman radial arm saws. There is absolutely NO comparison between those and a great old DeWalt or Uni-Point.

Gary

gary
is the northfield variety or the monarch version ? can you post some photos for the rest of us to see
thanks
lou

[Dev Emch]

I have an old Uni-Point radial arm saw (800 lbs.- 7-1/2 HP), and use it regularly. I find it to be very accurate. I use the SCMS for many things, and it's certainly quicker to adjust for a cut, but the radial arm has a much larger capacity and will cut through anything I've thrown at like it was butter.

I'll never part with it.

Oh.... many years ago, I had two Craftsman radial arm saws. There is absolutely NO comparison between those and a great old DeWalt or Uni-Point.

Gary

Gary
Is your Unipoint older than or equal to 1965? If it is older, do you have the more shapely blade flask? If it is older than 1965, have you had the turntable broached?

[Bill Simmeth]

If it is older than 1965, have you had the turntable broached?Dev, can you expand on this a bit? What is meant by "broached"? I have an older Monarch UniPoint in my project queue.

[Rob Millard]

Bart,

I did indeed adjust it, following all the proper procedures, such as getting the table parallel to the arm, striking a balance between removing the play in the track bearings and ease of pull, and setting the cams at the index points to insure accurate settings. I also, bought a negative rake blade to lessen the tendency to climb in the cut. The cam settings never held, and each cut was a hit or miss proposition. Right angle cross cuts were safe enough but flat miters were asking for trouble, and ripping, well that was just plain crazy. I'm pretty handy with all woodworking tools and while don't fear too many, I do know they must be used properly. I have a shaper, which has a reputation for being dangerous, but I'm not at all hesitant to use it. Had the saw produced repeated accurate cuts, I may have been willing to work with it, but there was no up side to the saw. Building on your gun analogy, I'd have no problem taking a novice to the range, or even letting older children use guns, but no body I care about would ever get near a RAS.
Rob Millard


Rob I just gotta ask did you get the instructions with the saw & did you get it adjusted properly. Also the instructions & maybe the help of someone that has used a RAS would have gone a long ways to help you understand how to safely use a RAS.

I can understand someone being scared if they don't know that the operator has to gently hold the RAS back as they pull it through the cut.

I generally pull the RAS through the cut by keeping my arm stiff & rotating my shoulder until the blade is just out of the front edge of the material being cut at this point my elbow is just starting to bend.

I have often said it on this forum there are no dangerous tools just dangerous operators.

Its just like guns, no gun in & of its self has ever killed anyone it had to be loaded & mishandled or intentionally used to kill.

That Radial Arm Saw or another power tool wasn't dangerous until someone got a hold of it. In the same circumstances with another operator it may or may not be dangerous.

I have an older 1967 12" Craftsman RAS that was my Dad's framing saw I replaced the guide rods & bearings that the saw carriage rolls on. For awhile because of the arrangement of the shop I wasn't able to use it.

I moved it from its ariginal legs to a cabinet on casters. Now with things re-arraigned I'll get in and re-adjust it & start using it. This RAS is the reason I purchased a 12" CMS instead of a SCMS.

[Jim Davenport]

I've always had a fondness in my heart for radial arm saws. My first real job, before I went into the Navy back in the early 60's was putting in oak flooring in a Ball room at the Million dollar pier in St. Petersburg Fla. As I remember I must have cut a "Zillon" feet of oak with a "Dewalt", and hand nailed it in. When I retired from the Navy in 1983, I bought a Craftsman Radial saw. I've been disapointed with it. My current workshop is "Spacially challenged" so most of my tools are on mobile bases. When I had to roll the radial around I had a hard time keeping alignment. It currently resides at my son's house up in Pasco county, about fifty miles away. He borrowed it to redo his deck a couple years ago. I haven't bothered to ask for it back. I bought a sliding miter saw, and have a sled cross cut jig for my table saw. So other than nostalgia, I don't really miss it.

[Carl Crout]

I bought the Ridgid RAS three years ago. Works great and stays in alignment. I use it for crosscutting everything under 12".

[Mike Kelly]

I think most folks are afraid of poor copies of a useful tool. The poor copies with marginal design and sloppy manufacturing have gained a bad reputation for this particular very useful tool. Wally Kunkel, "Mr. Sawdust", has written a book, "How to Master the Radial Arm Saw", which was based on his life's experiences with the tool. He only speaks about DeWalts.

One of his quotes talking about DeWalt again: "However, the same DeWalt - in misalignment, or in the wrong hands - can not only be frustrating - it can maim the operator for life. And that just may be YOU. I do not mince these words: Stupid, uneducated mistakes can maim you for life! (That's a long time.) "

If you have a radial arm saw, or think about buying a good one, his book makes for great reading.

http://www.mrsawdust.com/

[Dave Ray]

Frank great subject/poll. I never entered the "Poll" when it was originally posted, maybe just missed it. But, I have owned a 9 in Craftsman since the early 70's. Like many have said was my first stationary major power tool. Was a gift at the time, still is. Is used at least weekly, even though I have a full compliment of other tools which could do the same job. Never did "rip" with it, but never and still don't consider it a "dangerous" tool. At least no more than any other. Now somebody mentioned a "swing saw" now that rascal is dangerous, but have a friend (in a lumber yard) who uses one daily. That thing scares me just looking at it. Sears even recalled my RAS years ago, but I love it and won't let it go. Like old friends, we get closer as time goes by.

[Frank Pellow]

I would as soon pull my circular saw backwards thru a cut as use one of those again.
Frank


Frank, I don't know whether or not you are serious about this but pulling a circular saw backwards thru a cut does work. I even have a jig (called Trim-Tramp) that does this and, about 10 years ago, I used my Trim Tramp quite a lot. It was safe, accurate, and made good quality cuts. I will dig my Trim Tramp out and take some pictures if folks are interested.


Well Frank,
That does sound interesting, if only because the suggestion comes from you. My experience with the RAS was that it is a poorly designed and dangerous machine. Please do show us your Trim Tramp. Always willing to learn more (well *sometimes* willing),
Frank
Well it turns out that I would need to dig very deep. My Trim Tramp gizmo is at Pellow's Camp (our island and cabins in Northern Ontario) and, right now, that is a 12 hour car trip and 1.5 hour snowmobile trip away. I will try to remember to take some pictures next summer and start a new thread then.

[Fred Voorhees]

Had one given to me years ago. Needed a new bed, blade and tuning. And more tuning. Then, some more tuning. Once I had it dialed in, I was successful in getting some nice cuts. The next time, more tuning. Dial it in, tune, cut, stop, start over. Naw, the included pic is what I used it most for until the last rummage sale we had.:) :cool:

That is the exact Radial arm saw that I had a freind give to me way before I even had my shop built. I ended up building it into my thirty foot long work bench along one of the walls in my shop and I use it mainly on occasion when I have a batch cut job of cutting off at 90% angles. Once in a while, I will use it to cut dados where it is actually safer to do than to perform the task on the tablesaw. However, l pretty much never use it where precision is of importance.

[Tyler Howell]

[quote=Basil Rathbone]I know this is an old thread, but I will post this anyway.

Basil, Are you still playing Sherlock Holms???
My RAS just didn't cut well.

[Basil Rathbone]

Different and distant relative, Tyler, now long gone. Only the name lives on.

If you have an older dewalt, maybe all it needs is to be adjusted. Just like old actors, some RAS's live on because of the quality.

[Dev Emch]

Dev, can you expand on this a bit? What is meant by "broached"? I have an older Monarch UniPoint in my project queue.
Hi Bill..
When monarch sold the unipoint design to Northfield, northfield did not do much to change things. For a while, the unipoint nameplate just had unipoint on it. That is because northfied filed the MONARCH name off the pattern and did not get around to making a new pattern until some improvements were needed.

One of the problems with older northfields (pre 1965) and monarch unipoints was that the turntable did not hold position. No matter how much stick you put on the tuntable, the arm was prone to movment.

Northfield re-engineering the inner workings of the turntable and solved this problem. The new design increased the clamping surface area and now its critter proof (i.e. works like a charm).

But the re-engineering work was done so that older unipoints could be upgraded. Here is a nothfield URL link showing the older parts set and the newer parts set needed to perform this upgrade. But there is an operation that needs to be done on the base casting for the turntable and it has to be broached to accept the newer parts set. Its a straight forward operation.



http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/repairparts/radialsawparts/turntableclamping/turntableclamping.htm

While on northfield's site, I did find that they may still have the older blade flasks available. Not the sterile modern modern ones but the shapely curved ones with UNIPOINT Radial Saw cast in the sides. Mannnnnn does this guard look good. The exact adjective will most likely get censored so trust me, its looks sweeeet!

http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/repairparts/radialsawparts/16oldstyleguard/16oldstyleguard.htm

This is one sweet saw and as I said, should one come available, I will be tripping over my shoe laces to snag it.:D But I prefer the older style so any ultra modern, square cut unipoints are not of interest to me.:D

P.S. Update. I was wrong... its 1968 instead of 1965. Oppss... doesnt matter anyway however. I still want the saw.

[Tyler Howell]

Different and distant relative, Tyler, now long gone. Only the name lives on.

If you have an older dewalt, maybe all it needs is to be adjusted. Just like old actors, some RAS's live on because of the quality.

It's an old Cman Basil. I adjusted the day lights out of it. It served me well 3 house rehabs, 2 garages not to mention a bunch of toys for the kids. I just didn't realize what poor quality stuff I had. As far as safety I didn't have anything to compare so I guess ignorance is bliss.
After a lot of reading and SMC horror stories. The RAS confined to sanding and buffing.:o
Welcome to the Creek and maybe that family name can help us slueth out some of the major WW mysteries;)

[Mike Hollingsworth]

I bought a Delta 12" about 10 years ago.
The kind that pivots in the center.
I wonder if its still works.

Mike

[James Ayars]

When I was in college, 1982-1986, I worked at a Lowes/Home Depot type place. We had a panel saw and RAS for cutting wood for customers. I don't remember what brand the RAS was but it was quite heavy and had some age on it when I started working there. I loved that saw. I had started roofing houses in the summer when I was 12, but had never seen anything like that RAS.

We moved it once and it took 6 of us to move it about 4 feet. We were only allowed to do 90' cross cuts with it, but I think that was because the manager didn't want us spending lots of time putting miters on tomato stakes. Not knowing any better, we would just hold the wood at an angle to make a miter on it.

I don't remember the size but it would cut through two 4x4's stacked on top of each other. Yes, we had two guys that would cut four 4x4's at once with two stacks of two. I never saw how that saved any time and thought it was very dangerous but I was a college kid and they were 40 + year old know it alls.

That saw was used 100+ times a day and in the 5 years I worked there we never had an accident, although how we didn't is a mystery to me.
James

[Bill Simmeth]

Northfield re-engineering the inner workings of the turntable and solved this problem. The new design increased the clamping surface area and now its critter proof (i.e. works like a charm).Thanks for that overview; very helpful. I had heard something changed but didn't know the details. And, leave it to Northfield to make an upgrade path available to older users! They're a great company.


But I prefer the older style so any ultra modern, square cut unipoints are not of interest to me.Yup, I agree. That's why I jumped on the saw that's now patiently waiting its turn.

[Dev Emch]

Thanks for that overview; very helpful. I had heard something changed but didn't know the details. And, leave it to Northfield to make an upgrade path available to older users! They're a great company.

Yup, I agree. That's why I jumped on the saw that's now patiently waiting its turn.

Whats this jumping thing..... you didnt snag a vintage unipoint did you?

[Bill Simmeth]

Yes, I have a Monarch version. I'm afraid it is destined to wait in storage until a larger shop materializes. The ram arm makes the footprint just too large for my current shop. But, for $100 I couldn't pass it up.